MovieChat Forums > Joshua (2007) Discussion > The uncle was a phyco ?

The uncle was a phyco ?


The uncle was a crazed man who abused Joshua (he was abused and clearly made a point of in the film)

The uncle was in the room upstairs?

The mother was also disturbed and the illness ran in the family and that was also depicted in the film. Kitchen scene remember her comment?

If Joshua wanted to hurt the baby it would of happened at the beginning, in fact he was trying to protect his sister. I am sure I am not the only one who thought he was trying to get her down the stairs at the end and not harm her. He fed her at one point but was cleverly directed to make 'us' the audience and the father in the film, paranoid.

Joshua was not hiding under the cupboard from his father but from his abuser, he also didn't cause himself that bruise it was in a position clearly not possible to self harm.

Will add more tomorrow



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He was trying to protect his sister? By terrorizing her? You mean, even the video he took himself isn't enough of a proof for you?

Not sure WHERE you are getting all that about the uncle, especially considering the song lyrics in the end.

And what, is it not possible to purposely hit your back against something??



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I have no clue what to think about the uncle but, Joshua did tell him he did love his sis so, I doubt he was gonna hurt her.

Anyway Ill be confused about this movie for awhile, cant get it out of my mind lol.. so many possibilities about what could have been.

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I don't remember Joshua saying that.



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Josh told the uncle "I love her more than anything" at the end in the piano scene.

I have to re-watch this movie but, Josh just scares me lol

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I don't remember that he did, but if he did, it was just as fake as his crying over the dead dog.



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How can anyone not spell psycho correctly??? The OP is clearly a moron if he hasn't recognised the spelling is wrong despite TWO well known films using that spelling!

Ummm American Psycho and Psycho anyone?

Oh and the film was tedious and predictable!

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This OP has problems with spelling in general, I commented on it also in the "no one will ever love you" thread.



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yes, let's attack people over spelling. (It was apparently a typo, not a spelling error.)

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The uncle was a psycho for sure! I posted this two days ago under the title 'has everyone misunderstood this film/ending?' No one bothered to comment I think the OP here got straight to the pont any way 'cut' and 'paste'

I saw this for the first time on Film4 UK last night and don't believe that everyone seems to have missed the reasons for Joshua's behaviour throughout the film which is made explicit in the ending.

~SPOILERS~


It is obvious that the uncle has been abusing Joshua:

* Throughout there are hints at his own mental instability - he tells Joshua's father that mental illness runs in the family.

* Mentions his own reliance on shrinks

* He is the only one J's father confides in, rejects his theories on his son and then shares a private little whispering conference with the child.

* The child psychologist claims that J's art reveals that he's being abused, he is utterly manipulative of course but it is perfectly possible that the art, most of which is hidden from those around him (some is discovered by the removal man at the end) is a real representation of his mental state.

He's a creepy, screwed up, evil kid that's for sure but my theory is that he and the uncle are in it together in a way, they're in some kind of bizarre relationship.....so for the love of God someone save Lily!





Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail-R.W Emerson

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I watched it on Film4 as well, not sure about the uncle,waht about the strange look he gives Josua at the end, as if he has just realized what has happened?

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Didn't any of you watch the ending as the uncle looks aghast at Joshua as he finishes his "confession' song? The uncle had nothing to do with any harassment or abuse. Joshua was a manipulator and his parents' preoccupation angered him. He drew those pictures to set up the father. (The mover found more of the practice drawings.) And Joshua led his mother to the floor above after he'd fooled with her meds. The kid killed the animals at school so you know he knows about drugging the meds, the baby's formula, etc. He didn't have any reason to hate Lily yet, but he used her to get his dad and his grandmother distracted. I don't know where you are coming from blaming the uncle!

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Yeah he looks aghast because he wasn't aware of anything Joshua did, he wasn't aware that his abuse of the kid had caused him to turn into a complete psycho. That doesn't remove the fact that there are numerous hints that the uncle is unstable and potentially abusing his nephew.



Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail-R.W Emerson

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Clearly you can spell it properly, and thanks for pointing my mistake out. Sorry to others who used my spelling and copied and pasted it.

I will though be the first to admit I am dislesic <<<< C what I did their <<<<<< and I have to make great use of my spell checker and it takes me ages to write something that grammatically makes sense, but I am only trying to contribute my thoughts and not pass an exam in English literacy, but thanks for your concern.

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O.K., you spelled psycho correctly. Don't call someone a moron when you're spelling isn't any better. It's not recognised, it's "recognized".

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You know that people from the UK use "s" instead of "z", right?

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The fact that people from the UK spell improperly is no excuse. He can learn.

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You do know that the English language originated from England, right? (Well, technically Germany, but that's another matter.)
I don't know where you're from, but the 'z' version is the American-ised way of spelling.

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Nobody is putting the real "biological point" together: Josh's mother side is off the Ashkenazi thus really, Khazar bloodlines which is quite quite known for mental illness.

Take note, on his father's side, the problem is "disease" of Judeo-Christianity which the ancient relatives of the Khazars developed in Persia "Zoroastrianism" before they moved west into Turkey. This duelistic nonsense was poisoning the well and creating instability.

The point is, the kid was getting all the bad on all sides.

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For the grammatical anal that should be you're not your. American's think they invented the universe. There is little point engaging in an argument with them.

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Bderouen - You're clearly a MORON if you don't know the correct spelling of recogniSed is with an S in the UK which is where I am! So don't be a condescending fool when you're an American and the language you're attempting to type in is ENGLISH first and foremost. Remember also this is a BRITISH website first and foremost which might well surprise you!

And Zando777 - you Americans spell improperly not the British so do grow up. You Yanks have gone your own way with spelling - but not improved it.

And with respect to the OP I didn't know he was dyslexic or I wouldn't have dissed his spelling. Apologies to you.

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I feel cheap and tawdry for even involving myself in this discussion about spelling, but if **you're** going to throw stones, make sure **you're** absolutely correct also.

Britains use 'recognize' as someone else noted, but 'you're' is always the contraction for 'you are' -- 'your' shows ownership.

I am a Special Education teacher, so I have done a fair share of grading papers. But more severe disabilities is my specialty, so advocating for people with disabilities is something I take seriously. Dyslexia can be a devastating disorder, especially when it wasn't addressed properly in earlier grades.







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Let's eat Granny!! Let's eat, Granny!!"
Punctuation matters.

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I just watched it on SciFi channel. Josh did tell his uncle that he loved his sister more than anything. However, I 100% agree that it's fake. It's confusing to me why some people here thought it's his real feeling....

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Incidentally, I don't think Joshua hated his sister. He just saw that his parents loved her more and paid more attention to her and this caused him to blame her for that and resent her. I don't think Joshua was trying to kill her when he pushed the stroller to the edge of the top stair, I think he was just walking around pushing the stroller, and he was coincidentally just so happening to be walking close to the stairs when the grandmother came outside. But if he was, then you can most certainly blame the parents for him because if he was trying to kill her, he was only trying to do so to get rid of her so the parents would show their love for him for the first time in his life.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

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Did nobody notice him going up to his sister's crib and saying "nobody will ever love you"? His being manipulative/evil was blatant throughout the whole film. It was all him and there was no abuse. He is abusing everyone else. These other interpretations feel like people are trying to get more out of the movie when there is in fact nothing. It's not a deep work.



Matt S.

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OMG, no kidding about people stretching to make more of a silly entertainment film. Geez. Great flick. Kid's a sociopath. Parents certainly have their issues. I thought this was very entertaining. I won't spend nights re-working possible tangent plot summaries....this is a fiction folks. LOL.

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Joshua knew that if he woke his sister up their mother would come to see what was wrong.

He does use the video camera that true but does he film, nothing for self gratification.

The lyrics do not ring bells in your head? even the way it was filmed and the looks that were passed were not not enough proof for you?

OK so he could of deliberately fell against something I agree this is possible but really!

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I am not going to argue with you.

This "interpretation" is not worthy of my time or energy.



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I suppose the beauty of movies is they are up for interpretation and everyone may see something in it that is different from someone else. I however think that the people who believe Ned was abusing Joshua and this made him the way he was are over-reaching. I believe you may have misinterpreted some things Ned said that you claim proves his mental instability. Such as his saying that mental illness runs in the family. It can, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to have some mental illness. I interpreted Ned to be the most stable one. When referring to it running in the family he was speaking of Abby of course, and he could have been talking about others such as parents or other relatives. I'm guessing here but maybe when you hear Ned say "Speaking from personal experience" he is talking about his experiences with Abby's mental illness, not any of his own. And why is Joshua going to go through that whole charade just to be with him when he is supposedly being abused by him? The only bells the lyrics of the song ring is that Joshua felt that he should be with his uncle and that is what the song talks about. As for the looks that were supposedly passed between them, again it is open to interpretation. Me personally, I can't quite be sure if Ned was touched that Joshua felt that close to him (and no I don't mean that in any perverted or sexual sort of way, keep your minds out of the gutter)or if maybe that look on his face at the end means he is actually starting to wonder/realize what Joshua may have done in order to orchestrate the family he wanted all along, i.e. himself, Ned and Lily.

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Actually it's very common for abused children to insist they send as much time as possible with their abuser However, in this case I agree with you. Child abuse by a parent or close family member/ family friend creates strange bonds because the kid is unable to deal with what is happening to them. It's actually a fascinating (albeit disturbing) area of study.

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Good grief dazzyfresh, are you really that thick in the head that you couldn't see the forest for the trees?? The boy was clearly exhibiting early signs of a sociopath. Did you not see what he did to his guinea pig? He killed it, gutted it, stuffed it and sewed it back together. Now, I'm betting he'd have done that to all his family members if given half a chance!

It was quite obvious that the child was not right in the head. He had no personality, he never smiled...except a fake, evil one a time or two. He mocked his dad when he cried on the dog. Did you not notice the uneasy look on the father's face? And I have no doubt in my mind that he pushed grandma down the steps. And didn't it seem odd to you that the boy had no friends?

And...personally...I saw nothing wrong with the Uncle.

Here's some reading material you might want to take a gander at. After you read this, try watching the movie again and you'll see that every one of these traits are in that boy.

Sociopath: A sociopath can be defined as a person who has Antisocial Personality Disorder. This disorder is characterized by a disregard for the feelings of others, a lack of remorse or shame, manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals.

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath


"Ain't life grand!"

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The family had a history of depression. The same thing runs in my family. I have seen many shrinks and been on lots of meds and I'm not a psycho. I thought it was obvious that it was a depression issue in the family.

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Depression can and does run in the family and in more ways than one but let be clear.... Depression does NOT = psycho and I hope that this is not implied.

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Yeah that's what I was trying to get at. lol I have done some silly stuff because of my depression but I'm definitely not a psycho. I've noticed that most of my strange behavior is fueled by frustration with myself rather than a desire to hurt others, and that is pretty much what depression is.

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Just saw it and came here to see what others thought. The whole 'Evil Uncle' thing (came outta nowhere for me) but got me thinking. Since I had the DVD, I popped it back in and listened to the Director/Writers commentary at the end and they pretty much say that it was Joshua's plan all along to end up with his Uncle because he was the only one that really got him.

The uncle was not a psycho, molester or anything else. The commentary track also said that the original song that they wanted Joshua to sing made it sound like the uncle was in on the whole thing so they changed the song to basically tell us what happened.

They also said that the end shot was the uncle finally seeing that Joshua may indeed have orchestrated the whole thing.

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Doggone. Yes. You have it right artguy. I got that too even without the commentary. Where are people coming up with such weird theories? For whatever reason, probably the piano playing, Joshua felt that he connected with the uncle more than anyone else. He must have indeed felt the uncle "got" him more than others..though we don't see much of this besides the piano. But for instance, uncle loves piano, versus his dad who even admits him and his son are nothing alike.

So yes, as revealed by the last scene and the kid singing, the whole thing was a plot orchestrated by little sociopath kid for him to move in with his uncle. Uncle is like "WTF" when he hears the song because he's realizing the kid perhaps had intentionally screwed things up on purpose so he could live with him, going along with the dad's suspicions voiced earlier at the funeral.

I never got that the uncle abused him. I thought him and the sister seemed weirdly chummy, but not more than that. The kid was faking being abused so that he would be forced to be taken from his father. He intentionally exacerbated his mother's mental illness/postpartum psychosis so she would be taken away. Hell, the reason he killed the grandmother was probably so that she would be eliminated as a potential gaurdian, meaning even more he'd end up with the uncle.

I do think his plot to move in with the uncle started with the birth of Lily. He wasn't the center of his parent's world anymore so he was like, screw this, I'm going to move in with my cool piano playing uncle.

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I agree, artguy-5. The ending made it perfectly clear what had happened. The kid was a psychopath! A manipulating one, to boot. The uncle figured it out by the 'confession' song Joshua played. Joshua was telling him that he himself had done it all, it was all true.
It was all about what Josh wanted, he didn't give one whit about anybody but himself. He tortured and killed just so he could live with this uncle, whom he felt 'understood' him and that's what he got to do.

The parents were nutjobs themselves, in my opinion. The mom (and dad much of the time) acted drunk 100% of the time, and could both the parents possibly ignore the son a little more??
Isn't it obvious he has a serious problem?! That's not justifying what he did, but the film seems to hint that part of his psychopathology may have been caused by his mom being unable to bond with him because he cried so much.

But geez parents, by all means have ANOTHER kid! The mom only wanted a perfect quiet baby to fuss over, but couldn't handle real parenthood. I hated her almost as much as the son! The dad too, he was Mr. Denial.



"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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I do believe this is one of the dumbest interpretations of any movie I've read in my life.

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Are you speaking about my post or the OP's?


"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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The OP must be thinking he's a "phyco" because he's homosexuel and so on a pedophile... Dumbass.

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Sorry, But I think you have it all wrong.
There is nothing to indicate that the uncle was a crazed man. The ending told the story. It made clear to me that the uncle was gay when, while sitting at the piano, he made that hand gesture. He also said something to the effect of "no one has ever called me daddy, well maybe". I took this to mean that maybe he was called "daddy" in a non-traditional way. The look on is face at the end of the song is his realization that the boy has intentionally drove his mother mad and falsely accused his father of abuse. The boy is obviously also gay and did all this so that he can be with is uncle. He is in love with his uncle and maybe see's him as more than a father, but in a sexual way.

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Everything you said is supported by the film except for the boy being "gay". Not saying it doesn't happen, but the boy is nine years old and has shown no signs of overt sexuality at all. I think the boy simply means to manipulate his environment...and did so very effectively...and the new environment he has now will suffice...until he gets something else in his head. Then the uncle will be the next victim.

I have no idea at all from where you've pulled this sexuality stuff. I don't see how he is "obviously gay" at all.

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Oh, for pete's sake, your interpretation is ridiculous. There is exactly zero evidence or clues that the uncle is doing anything at all. Clearly, Joshua is a fledgling sociopath whose true nature is coming out with the opportunity given him, that of the birth of his younger sister, who poses a threat to the attention he's been getting. He shows textbook symptoms of sociopathy...manipulative, conning...lack of remorse or empathy...pathological lying...shallow emotions. All of these traits are emerging in Joshua. He clearly has no emotional connection to his parents, as evidenced by his telling his father he doesn't have to love him.

This is a very disturbed child...not abused, as there are exactly zero signs of that aside from the drawing. And let me just say, no psychologist or doctor would ever diagnose child abuse based upon a drawing a child makes. That is nearly ZERO to go on in investigation such an allegation. The part of the film where the psychologist becomes assertive to the father over this is pure hogwash.

The mother was clearly suffering some kind of postpartum pathology, likely depression, that has been severely exacerbated by Joshua's provoking the baby to cry, as evidenced by the video he filmed himself. This was clearly his way of getting her out of the way...for what reason, nobody can say. Sociopaths often have no rhyme or reason...they just want the power to manipulate their environment.

I have no idea what the connection is with the uncle, but it seems clear to me, from my knowledge of sociopaths, that there likely is no emotional connection at all, just an opportunistic one...and the uncle will eventually catch on and will become Joshua's next victim. Joshua will move from adult to adult until one day somebody will intervene and he will be placed in a psychiatric hospital or he will be killed.

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[The ucle was not a Psycho !

No Joshua Is just evil, He didn't love his sister only says it because hey doesn't whant 2 look like a creep. Didn't Ya'll saw the cut open guinipig in his room at the end? I mean I was his father I have killed that *beep* son of a b*tch !
And on the end of the video he sings with his uncle a song, about bladiebla nobody would love me again and on the end of the song he sings: and I just always wanted 2 be with you. And his uncle was like 0_0 nooo *beep* way! Well you could see it when you looked at his face. Did joshua ment that he always wanted 2 be with his uncle and not with his parents? Or did he just wanted 2 be nice and start creeping at his house to? But joshua is pure evil end DID NOT LIKE HIS SISTER, AND NO HIS UNCLE DIDN'T MELLESTED HIM! His uncle was a sweet inocent man who could not believe that a child was that rotten in side as jushua.
People don't always think more of a movie than it is, You always have that kind of people and they should shut the *beep* up.
But I loved this movie It was almost as good as Orphan.

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Correct. What is it with so many IMDb users overanalysing movie plots? The movie is what it is.....about a screwed up evil sociopath child. He should have been institutionalised. I read somewhere that someone said the mother overreacted during the hide and seek game......right.....so if your psychotic child disappeared somewhere with your new born baby, you wouldn't freak out at all? Obviously has no kids.

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Thank you,
You understant it

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I have to say; Jacob Kogan totally manipulates everyone in this film, and many of you on this thread. He was a deadly sociopath. Normal kids do not talk like him, act like him, feign false emotions like he does, and he had every intention of driving the mother mad and the father away. The uncle had nothing to do with it. Like everyone else he was just naive about the boy's eccentricity.

And wow..does it irk me that some silly American would actually think that the correct spelling of recognise is "recognize". So glad that Hazel put that to bed. I don't think there are people in existence who are more unaware than most Americans.

"...I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?" Robert DeNiro, Meet The Parents

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The correct spelling of "Recognize" IS "Recognize". The fact that some Brits use an archaic spelling is irrelevant. Language evolves, you should to. Or maybe you want to speak in Ye Olde English all day, quote from Chaucer, and prance around in pantaloons.

Silly Brit. I don't think there are people in existence who are more unaware than twits like you.

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I don't think there are people in existence who are more unaware than most Americans.


And yet you ring in with the most ignorant statement in the thread!

I would say my memory is not what it used to be. But I don't remember what my memory used to be.

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There is ZERO evidence to support your uncle theory. Of course the kid was capable of bruising his own back! Piece of cake for a kid also willing to provoke his Dad into pummeling his face in the park. It was bloody obvious he was a diabolical mastermind of cold-blooded manipulation, point of the film actually. Kid was a genius, musical and otherwise. He didn't need any coaching or help. Could a real kid that age come up with this stuff? No, but obviously the whole point of this horror story was that Joshua had otherworldly skills in this area - realistic or not.

The uncle did 'get him', for example he seemed to be the only one who understood the atonal 'twinkle, twinkle' variations. So yes, the kid did feel at home with him and didn't with his rather prosaic and distant parents. So now we have established a psychopathic, diabolical genius as Joshua's modus operandi and a desire to be with his uncle as his motive, which together explain everything.

Naturally we might wonder for a moment if the uncle was in on it but just a moment's reflection on the facts of the film and that idea just falls apart. Here is a lesson to you for the future: when you come up with a theory like that try to shoot it down yourself, don't latch on to it and hang on for dear life. And, for the public safety, don't ever get a job as a detective or psychologist or anything as long as your analysis skills are stuck at this primitive level.

Your'e welcome!

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Intriguing idea, but the director & writer both confirmed that the boy was a psychopath. If he uncle was abusing him, why would he write a song for him & say the he always wanted to live with him. This was just supposed to be a throw bath to the Omen and those movies that showed evil children but didn't show gore.

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