If you're brainwashed, you can't handle the facts. The film begins by saying it will talk about the occupation and policies by the Israeli government/army and most importantly the Palestine side of this whole thing. Of course people like YOU, will call it propaganda. Every time it gives you numbers and figures it references the source below it.
I'm not sure you understand what propaganda is, the most insidious propaganda cloaks itself with pseudo legitimacy, the best lies are simply omissions of the full truth, the idea that it is being anything remotely close to fair is a joke. You are free to have any opinion you want, but you dont get to choose your facts, and with propaganda videos like this, they choose their facts very selectively.
That's a really warped analogy.. It doesn't even make sense.. Germany was invading other countries and was about to invade England sooner or later.. So when did the Palestinians begin to invade your lands? Exactly how are your funds preventing any form of invasion? If the massive aid was going to Palestine to defend itself then your analogy would make perfect sense. That article made the claim that foreign aid was fuelling violence, yet only aid given to Palestine was fuelling it... That's how he put it. That's propaganda.. completely one sided, only to benefit the agenda. I'm sure Israel would be quick to sit down for talks and get a resolution, if it never had all this foreign aid.
Sorry no its a perfect analogy. The nazis fired rockets into london, scale up the population of israel to match the uk and you will see what the equivalent is, which is tens of thousands of rockets from the palestinians into jewish towns and cities. When this happened to the uk, they fire bombed german towns into cinders. This isn't what the israelis have done yet they are condemned for their restraint and face torrents of vitriol from the likes of you. Germany was firing rockets and london and planned invasion. The palestinians fire rockets at israel and many of their groups plan invasion as their final goal as well, stated in their charters plain as day, so where you get off pretending this isn't analogous I don't know. Further condemning your position is the fact that nazi ideology permeates muslim and palestinian culture, and has so for decades now. If you can't addmit this simple fact, all your arguments and conclusions become suspect as they are built on foundations of sand.
The film raised this issue.. The Palestinians weren't the Nazi's nor were they responsible for the holocaust. They did not HAVE to agree to giving land to the Jews. It was not their land to be broken up. The polices and actions of the Israeli government do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the normal Jews or an Israeli citizen. If you wish to make it black and white and call Palestinians Nazi's, then you're exactly the same type of person that hates on Jews for the actions of the government. Nazi's were everywhere at that time, even in America. That doesn't mean the population was full of nazi's.. Stop resorting to trying to discredit the Palestinians for your agenda..
It didn't raise it, it white washed it as you are doing. The facts are the facts, holocaust denial and nazi ideology is rife in the middle east. Until you accept this fact you are dealing with faulty equations for judgement as your assumption of rational actors when your side is clearly infected with hate and conspiracy theory is faulty. Its like if someone expected a nazi to give a fair judgement or discussion with a jew, it isn't going to happen, and if you think it would, it would call into question your judgement. The facts are the facts, nazi like attitudes are pervasive in government/educational/and entertainment media, never mind the religious environment. Its not even hidden, as seen cataloged by the sites already listed. They aren't even self aware enough to be ashamed to hide those opinions in public. Whether its antisemitism, misogyny or homophobia, the palestinians have no problem with discrediting themselves, if you can't see the evidence, you are blind.
I'm sure she's a fool in your eyes.. She got bulldozed by a person like you, who is willing to ignore human life for what?? This story is simply that.. Nothing more, the brutality and the cost of lives for these warped views and treatment to human beings.
She is a fool, like many lefties before her she found common cause with antisemites, misogynist and homophobes, her principles were not worth anything. She is the exact kind of fool that enables the worst in the palestinian community, gives them legitmacy, and ensures their continued suffering.
Yea it could do exactly what the Nazi's did to the Jews.. But it knows the cost of that.. It knows it can't get away with it, whatever support they have now will diminish and they know it, so it must slowly kill, push them out and slowly level each village one by one. Taking more land each step. What happened to the days of having "3 small islands of land and most of that portion was desert" I guess now it wants more than that.. Ultimately, if they wanted just a part for themselves, they should have stopped, but they didn't and still aren't. The Palestinians were wise to disagree, because it was pointless to agree.
Well actually they could do what the british did to the germans. The germans have their cities burnt to the ground, and their borders forciably redrawn. that iis the result of losing war, only in the case of jews did the conflict get dragged out for decades as the normal rules were warped by the power of antisemitism. The palesitnians lost, its not their right to state the rights of surrender, the fact that they have dragged this out for decades has cause untold suffering and that is why they should have to pay with concessions for the harm they have caused. Like it or not the fact is this, the jews of isreal have behaved far more humane that any of the allies during ww2. Faced with destruction they did not burn entire cities like the americans or the brits, no cities were nuked. The allies turned to such total war after just years of german attack, the jews have had incredible restraint for decades of terror and sowing of hatred all the while being surrounded by countless millions of hostile forces. So your bringing up the holocaust as something the jews would do is exactly demonstrating how warped your moral compass has become. In history israel has behaved admirably, yet you pour scorn based on not having any context at all. Your words are laced with venom about israel, but what are you comparing them to? Not any reality, but that is the mark of antisemitism, there is one standard for the jews, and no standards for anyone else.
Did you even watch the film or are you so brainwashed you can't erase wrong information and replace it with correct information? The old woman argues this point clearly, yet it went through one of your ears and out the other... It makes complete sense. Why would they send their sons and daughters to be suicide bombers? Who in their right mind would be willing to live a life, only to go and bomb themselves up? It's very hard to force someone to do that, it only happens when humans are pushed to the limits. If they had tanks and helicopters, they wouldn't need suicide bombers, and it would be like any other war in history. If Israel wasn't given all this weaponry, I'm sure it will find itself more eager to sit on the diplomacy table.
You speak of war crimes? The film also went into that. How many crimes are the Israeli's breaking? How many times has the US used it's veto for Israel? .
Why would germans send their children to german youth camps to become hitler youth and why would japanese become kamakazi? Your logic is completely faulty, just because you can brainwash people into doing something does not legimitmize their ideology or plight. Some of the worst causes have plenty of people devoted and willing to sacrifice their lives for, you think those nazi's didn't believe in their cause? Bringing up the fact that one side has more weapons has no meaning at all, its not the job of anyone to arm both sides to equality, and the fact that one side has less arms does not make them morally superior. Near the end of ww2 germany had few weapons to fight with, would that legimitze their attacks and tactics? Of course not, its an absurd way of thinking. As I already posted before,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WX6zkEg7TU Listen to the words of that woman, and the mother that mutilates their daughters, by your reasoning because they are willing to do such things they must have legitimate motivations for doing so. quite absurd.
It's not a special standard for Jews. It's the normal standard and something that was not present during the Holocaust, that allowed it to happen. A standard that all Human beings must fight for the right of oppressed people.
You're potentially saying that evil is allowed to happen and we should pay no attention to Israel for the actions, because there's worse things happening around the world?
I don't pretend to be at the side of the right, I know what's wrong and what's right. I will argue the case for the right, not the wrong, that doesn't mean I support it. If your country is willing to give loans to anybody willing to immigrate to Israel, why has it not set up programs to build settlements for the Palestinians? Or offered them the same loans to integrate with the Israeli society? Or methods to pick out the innocent families and move them away from the violence? It's all one sided for you, isn't it.
As I already pointed out time and time again, based on history and the behavior of even the countries surrounding it, there is a special standard for the jews. Do your muslim/leftist friends speak of the turks in the same venomous way they do the jews? Of course not. Israel is held to the absurd and highest standard, facing onslaught and several wars over the last few decades and the palesitnians who seed their young with hate and terror have no standards or accountability applied to them at all. Human rights? When you indoctrinate your population with nazi like ideology you have no standing to speak of human rights, but that is the problem, you do not acknowledge this. Settlements are nothing compared to the lives taken by decades of palestinian terror, and as I said, some concessions are due to israel because of the criminal behavior of the palestinians which have cost generations a life of peace.
I'm sure you would like to say in world war 2 it wasn't all one sided. You can quibble here or there, I'm sure there were some racist brits, but frankly the nazis were the nazis and there is no moral equivalence to be drawn that holds any water at all. There aren't always two sides. The palestinians intrasingence is on a different level the same way the nazi's behavior and ideology was on a different level, there are not always two sides.
I don't know why you would link me these things.. It's as if you believe two wrongs make a right..
No, its not about two wrongs but context. You fixate on two wrongs as if that has any logical meaning, if you fixate on the brits bombing german cities you would say that two wrongs don't make a right, but you'd miss the point entirely, never mind it has nothing to do with the moral calculus of which side was right to begin with. Your position is a dodge, and you avoiding the ugly facts contained within the links of palestinian complicity with the nazi's, and their continued indoctrination of generation after generation with hate cloud your ability to draw reasoned conclusions. If you can't see that your assumption that both parties are rational actors is wrong then you will have an equation that gives you the wrong answer every time. As I said before, if you think that a jew could have a reasonable discussion with a nazi on the issues at hand during ww2 you are either naive or deliberately being disingenuous. Not all people are working with the facts on the ground, if you argue with a 9/11 conspiracy truther nut they will drive you up the wall because their "facts" and "reasoning" have been fundamentally compromised and they have no interest in dealing with you in an honest manner. With antisemitism and nazi like hatred, that disingenuousness only gets worse.
I am Kurdish and I know the crimes the Turkish government and fascist Turks have committed. The irony in their attempts to support the Palestinians was not missed. That doesn't mean the Israeli government is better or worse than the Turkish government. The fact is, they're pretty much the same. Calling me an anti-jew or whatever, is just ironic. Some how I hate Jews because I speak against their actions?
The same arguments have been used by brainwashed, racist Turks, who find arguments against the Kurds, influenced by their own government, similar to the same stuff you have said. It's typical. I know exactly what's going on, and defending it only makes you part of the problem. Fight evil with good, not with evil, or you're not fighting for anything.
Thats fine but you should actually know better than anyone else the double standards being applied to the jews. Where are the calls for divestment from turkey on college campus's? Where are the films being played on college campus's condemning the turks, the iranians, the iraqis? You won't find anything close to the venom or number on this issue, from the left or from muslims, the hypocrisy is there for all to see.
As I said before, muuslims around the world find a jew to kill, any jew will do, even in india in 2008 they had to find some jew. After 9/11 muslims shot american jews in community centers even, never mind other incidents all around the world. there is no equivalent, if turks or iranians were being killed in america by jews you might have some equivalence, but you know very well this doesn't happen. The pathology of racist/religious hate in the muslim/palestinian community is so pervasive that apparently you can't see it.
When your standards for the jews become so "special" that they call attention themselves then yes, you might well consider what applies, there has to be some explaination for this mental distortion and its been well documented through history now and has gained the label of antisemitism.
An old story that illustrates the point and sadly is valid to this day...
“A good working definition of anti-Semitism is taking a trait or an action that is widespread, if not universal, and blaming only the Jews for it. That is what Hitler and Stalin did, and that is what former Harvard University President A. Lawrence Lowell did in the 1920s when he tried to limit the number of Jews admitted to Harvard because “Jews cheat.” When a distinguished alumnus objected on the grounds that non-Jews also cheat, Lowell replied, “You’re changing the subject. I’m talking about Jews.” So, too, when those who single out only the Jewish nation for criticism are asked why they don’t criticize Israel’s enemies, they respond, “You’re changing the subject. We’re talking about the Jews.”
The same arguments have not been used by racist turks btw, nothing close to the venom against jews has been fired at anyone else but the jews. In that area, and even in turkey 9/11 conspiracy theory is rife, by any polling the jews are responsible for that and much worse. If the folks on your side are riddled with people who can't even get history from the last decade straight ,how the hell are you pretending their opinion on anything is valid at all. In such societies reality distortion is a given, so the assumption you are dealing with rational and fair people is just laughable.
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