anonymity?

Are you kidding? I've heard of AA many many times in US movies and tv shows.

AA as an organization has the position that it makes no comments good or bad in the press about itself therefore writers like this one and other idiot hollywood types are able to make AA anything they want. The reality is that if someone admitted to killing someone in a meeting, people would report it to the police. AA is not a private organization or business, it has no legal arm to stop misrepresentation of it and infact the it's traditions state that they have no opinions on any issues at the level of press, film or television.

I assume that since there are no Steps, Traditions or any other banners displayed, that the makers took it on themselves to portray A.A. as they thought it was. Bit of a shame, because real meetings are not like that, and nobody would ever announce that he was a killer. Somebody would go to the police, because you are not supposed to kill people, even if it's your profession.

Of course, nowhere does the film pretend that this is official A.A., and just as well. Had they asked for permission, I don't think they would have got it.

The guideline comes from their eleventh 'Tradition'. The shortened version of that one reads:
"Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and film."

Additionally, their only sanction against a member who might 'violate' the guideline is the spiritual (or psychological, depending on one's perspective) repercussion that may or may not ensue! (not withstanding the real possibility that the 'individual's 'violation' may lead to a return to drunkenness)

One of their co-founders, the late Bill Wilson (anonymity does not extend beyond the grave; Wilson's last name was finally revealed in his obituary) testified before the US Congress in July 1969 on the impact of alcoholism.

Introducing Wilson, Senator Harold Hughs told media reps in attendance that for the testimony no television or photographs would be permitted but audio recording was allowed. (Wilson was allowd to be photographed but only from behind) Note the prohibition was from the committee, not Wilson.

It appears AA does not force the concept of anonymity on the Media. Rather, it merely requests media reps respect the anonymity of members by not making a person's membership known to the public.

From what they say it seems the rational for this is twofold:
To help the individual member focus on staying sober without worrying about what they can get out of AA membership other than sobriety and to protect the reputation of AA from celebrity errors/failure(s).

What helps in considering this group is to know that they were founded by a bunch of drunks who stumbled on a way to obtain a semblence of sobriety. The rag-tag group looked at what they were doing and set up a seat-of-the-pants 'program'. The overwhelming bulk of their experience and expertise was in how to get and stay drunk!

Nothing has changed. They're still a bunch of drunks whose experience and expertise is how to get and stay drunk. Precious few of them are able to or even care to tell you why they are able to stay sober.

'They' will tell you, but only if you ask, how 'they' stay sober
('They' being the person doing the telling. They almost boast that what one member does might not work for another).

They usually begin by telling the newcomer, 'if you don't take a drink you can't get drunk'. Well... Duh. Can it really be that simple?

Some other than myself insist on describing their success as miraculous. It's a mystery to me.

In the April 12, 2007 reprint of his 1983 article to The Nation Kurt Vonnegut said, "What has been America's most nurturing contribution to the culture of this planet so far? Many would say Jazz. I, who love jazz, will say this instead: Alcoholics Anonymous." see link: http://www.thenation.com/doc/19831231/vonnegut

I agree.

Regarding what you said - I was looking for a post regarding recovery as portrayed by this movie. There are quite a few movies that say straight out - NA and AA. Let's see - I have a huge list really but I'd have to look the list up but one that comes to mind for AA is Changing Lanes with Samuel L. Jackson. For NA, one of my favorites although not quite realistic - yet still with NA 12-steps on the wall and I believe the actual NA symbol on the podium and such was Jesus' Son. That was a good movie but any movie I've seen so far that includes recovery has something not quite right - if not completely wrong - as if whoever put the program in the movie did absolutely no research (in some cases) or has never even been to a meeting personally. Some may just be doing the best they can to work around permissions to use the program symbols or literature when they have not received permission to do so from World. In the case of "You Kill Me", here are my thoughts.

I thought it was very entertaining. I enjoy movies that show anything about recovery. I like to see the errors in perception, lack of research or just ignorance by the writer, screenwriter, director - whoever - on the subject of recovery. This movie was close enough - the person who created the recovery scenes has been to a 12-step meeting, I'd say.

The only completely unrealistic thing is about anonymity - and that could be done just for the plot - without the 12-Step groups he attended accepting him as a hitman the plot that includes a 'hitman in recovery' obviously wouldn't work. However, its kind of like James Gandolfini's character seeing the psychiatrist and being honest about the crimes he is committing. Yes, there's a code of ethics protecting clients of doctors, clergy - they aren't going to or aren't supposed to leak character defaming information about you. However, despite this 'code', most didn't sign a confidentiality agreement and even if they did there would always be an exception for knowledge of impending crimes where others would be harmed. Say that Timothy McVeigh told his therapist that he was planning to blow up a building. There is the chance that the said therapist may not BELIEVE Timothy Mc was honest - the counselor may believe he's suffering say from anti-social personality disorder with some kind of delusions of grandeur but if that doctor believed or even had the slightest doubt about whether Timothy Mc was telling the truth - they would not only NOT be required to keep that a secret for client confidentiality reasons, I'd venture to say they'd be held accountable even possibly responsible in some part for the crime once committed if anyone ever found that the counselor had been told about the crime before it was committed and failed to act.

Aside from legal reasoning, in general, people are people and they say that the only person that can truly keep a secret is a dead person. Think of a group of recovering alcoholics, addicts or other obsessive people. Some of those have committed terrible crimes, many have been to jail/prison, many are still very, very ill and would do about anything to continue their addictive behavior. Some aren't there by their own will but court ordered or required for some other reason. If you stood in front of that group or just began sharing even with one person - your sponsor - that say you kill people for a living and they believed that? It wouldn't be the wisest move if you didn't want to go to prison but the real rule is that if someone is in immediate danger - if someone is actually going to harm someone or cause harm to themselves - the 12-step program or doctors - that's not what is meant by client privelege or in the the 12-step program - anonymity.

The only way the anonymity part of the program could be believable is if every other member of the group that Ben Kingsley attended and shared such information with did NOT believe what he said - thought he was lying to build up his persona or be a 'tough guy'. I'd have to say, though, that in the movie, Ben Kingsley was quite convincing, quite serious and even if not another person said a word to anyone, perhaps out of fear or whatever reason, his sponsor - Luke Wilson actually did believe it, saw the weapons and so on. The whole idea that he needed recovery so that he could continue his illegal activities is simply not, in any way what is meant by program anonymity.

In the program, members should feel safe to share and be involved in recovery. Even with anonymity - if someone shared something that helped you, you can share what that person said so long as you never IDENTIFY who that person is - you never say any names. You can share the information, use it in your daily conversation or whatever - just never saying WHO told you that. Also, never would you identify yourself in the press - the mass media as a member of a 12-step group because - you are NOT the POSTER CHILD for the program. Perhaps the things you say or believe are not the views of anyone else in the program, that is. If you commit a crime - certainly do you not want to tell people you are a member of a 12-step group because no group, organization or company wants to be associated with you in that case. Like say you were a high-profile basketball player who was busted as a pedophile or uncovered as a serial killer. In no way would the NBA want to be associated with those things. Like when you think of baseball these days you may just think of steroid usage as a stereotype.

The people in the movie simply PLAYED members of a 12-step group - so no one's anonymity was broken. However, it did possibly take some liberties - it could possibly make perspective members who aren't sure whether they wanted to be in recovery or not - go one way or the other based on the movie. People who've never been may not quite know what to expect and may think the movie is a realisic portrayal. However, it's still a movie and that's not even what the tradition of anonymity means - it doesn't mean that AA is a secret or the words Narcotics Anonymous can never be said above a whisper or uttered aloud. Now a REAL AA or NA or CA or SA group - with actual members and crediting their real names - THAT would be as you said - not upholding the traditions.

There is a slight paradox when it comes to anonymity because what about letting people suffering in the world know that there is a place that may be able to help, somewhere where you can go where others who've been where you are can be found - where perhaps peace, serenity and freedom can ultimately be found. How do the programs let the world know that recovery is out there and it's FREE? NA and AA - they DO advertise, there have been TV spots (commercials), signs found in public transportation - if the groups were completely secret no one would know where to go to get help. People do service work in the program - give back, that is, but never do they "recruit". It's not a cult - it's laid out straight forward... "here is what we have - come if you want or go on back out until you are ready...that is, if you don't die or go crazy first" essentially. Of course it's not usually so cruel but that is the gist of it - the group will be here when you are ready... you don't even have to say a word ...just come listen one day if you like. If you like what we have found, you are free to join us. It's pretty simple, that's what I mean.

There are World headquarters for the 12-step groups and they do grant or not allow permission to be named. They do file lawsuits when their information is used without permission just as any trademarked symbol or copywrited literature is protected. I'd have to watch the movie again but I don't believe that any words straight from the text were spoken - and if they were, I guarantee you they were granted permission to use any literature from the program. Now there are many phrases which are simply phrases and not straight from the text of any program. For instance, fake it till you make it - or a host of these phrases that are repeated ad infinitum to help people get through the day - one minute at a time, if necessary. Then certain parts of the program - which is indeed spiritual and not religious - such as the Lord's Prayer, the Serenity Prayer - those are not AA specific. Obviously they came from the Good Book. Since so many who get into recovery have had a very hard time - and may have lost faith or never had it, it's a good thing that the program allows simply a Higher Power - as shown in the movie - and to Ben Kingsley he chose something bigger than himself as it should be - he chose the literal Bridge. In the beginning in the program they say your HP can be anything as long as it's bigger than you and not you. It can be the group as that is bigger than you. Many may eventually call that power God or Allah or whatever - maybe that power will always be the group or just the universe but using prayers from the Bible is simply using a prayer that seems to help and doesn't mean that when you say the word God - that it means anything to you other than whatever you have decided is what you call God (your Higher Power) to help you a long at the time.

Did you notice that the AA symbol was not correct? The symbol for AA in the meeting was not the real AA symbol. I don't recall them showing the Big Book either.

Anonymity and confidentiality is extremely important for the program to work - and to be a safe haven. Yet when it comes to others being harmed - there is a limit. The most basic meaning of anonymity is not broken in this movie BECAUSE the true meaning of the tradition of anonymity is just to not be identified as a program member. This movie shows a meeting and its members in the mass media - but it is a movie. The only problem I see with that is how, as I said, it shows certain images which a person who has not been to a meeting may be swayed by. The movie shows a killer welcomed, supported and accepted.

Say if a murderer is caught - the media and/or the member is not supposed to identify that person or himself as a MEMBER. In the program, while there are t-shirts for conventions and such that people wear - generally when someone is arrested and shown on the news, the 12-step groups would hope that the member is NOT wearing a shirt showing any identification with any group.

Here is a little clip regarding anonymity in the program:

Confidentiality

The Twelve Traditions encourage members to practice the spiritual principle of anonymity in the public media and members are also asked to respect each other's confidentiality. However, the programs rely on 'obedience to the unenforceable' and there are no legal consequences or sanctions within the program to discourage those attending twelve-step groups from revealing information disclosed during meetings. Statutes on group therapy do not encompass those associations that lack a professional therapist or clergyman to whom confidentiality and privilege might apply. Physicians who refer patients to these groups, to avoid both civil liability and licensure problems, have been advised that they should alert their patients that, at any time, their statements made in working through the Twelve Steps might be disclosed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program#Confidentiality

That addresses a good deal of it better than I really can.

T.