MovieChat Forums > Star Trek (2009) Discussion > Reasons why Trek 2009 was stupid and poo...

Reasons why Trek 2009 was stupid and poor Pt. 1

posted 6 years ago by Sandman27 (3043)
13 replies | jump to latest

Like a phoenix, this post has risen from the ashes. Due to the limitations of the post length, I have to cut the posts into smaller pieces. Unfortunately, the eye roll emoji does not work here so please use your imagination whenever you see [eye2].

1. Kelvin should've been destroyed.

The Narada appears from the singularity. It immediately opens fire on the Kelvin. Who knows how many photons were fired, but definitely a lot. The Narada is from the future, thus futuristic high-tech weapons. How advanced? A century's worth at least. Hmm...since WWII to the 80's, the superpower countries were able to develop smart weapons and ICBM's. That's less than a half a century. Now add another 50 years to that tech and what would you have? So, the future tech photons are unable to destroy an old research vessel. Now let’s add a quote from the movie, "I have a reading, they've locked weapons on us.” What does that mean? It means coming out of the singularity didn’t disable their targeting systems. If let’s say twenty tomahawk missiles were fired at a WWII battleship and scored no direct hits, but a few near misses, the battleship would be under the sea. Now put that into this movie. 50+ more years in tech. Targeting systems intact. What was the result? But of course this HAS TO HAPPEN because if it didn’t, we’d have an end of story moment within the first 10 minutes. And yet later in the movie, the Narada destroys an entire Armada of Klingon ships. Poor & Stupid.

2. The life pods should’ve been destroyed.

So the Kelvin survives long enough for the life pods to jettison and have daddy Kirk sacrifice himself heroically. Yay! He rams the ship into the Narada, which is like 10 times the size of the Kelvin, maybe more. So, if this causes main power to go offline in the Narada, then where’s the auxiliary power? Based off of Trek II, aux power is enough to get off a few phaser blasts, right? Every spaceship should have auxiliary power for emergency life support. That’s basic common sense and based on previous Trek, proven. So where is it? If Nero fires on the Kelvin at first sight, it would only make sense that he’d finish the job, right? And of course we learn later in the movie that he’s on some hell bent mission to destroy the entire Federation. So not only would it make sense, this course of action would fit the character. One photon detonated in the same proximity would wipe out all of the life pods. Then again, this would be an end of story moment within the first 10 minutes and daddy Kirk wouldn’t have been a hero. So if this is the premise of the movie, the “writers” either didn’t notice how implausible this was and how out of character they created their antagonist, or they didn’t think anybody would’ve noticed, or they didn’t care. Better yet, it probably was a combination of all of it. [eyes2]

3. Kirk’s a douche.

A previous poster told me he likes “douchey” characters. To everyone, their own. Of all the people I have ever met, rich or poor, famous or not, nobody has ever stated their middle name when introducing themselves to me. How pretentious of an introduction is this of Kirk? This is the guy we, the audience, are supposed to feel sympathetic towards? This is our protagonist?

The Shat as Kirk never said his middle name. Never. And this is the first words out of the new Kirk?

Oh, but this is an alternate Kirk. He had no daddy growing up.

Being rebellious is one thing. Being a pretentious douche is another. One has nothing to do with the other.

Fast forward to the Kobayashi Maru test. Even though this is an alternate Kirk and he enlists in Starfleet a completely different way and probably a different time in his life, he manages to re-count the exact same steps of his previous version’s timeline Kirk. What are the chances?! Now we know how many times he took it and what he did. The failure is they really could’ve used this to develop Kirk’s character. What would’ve this accomplish? Three things. Tie into the history of Trek, develop his character, and advance the story. If they would’ve shown Kirk in command of the simulation and complete the rescue mission, it would’ve been much more dramatic and exciting. Instead, we just get douchey Kirk eating an apple. We don’t get flashes of brilliance of his command prowess. We get absolutely nothing instead.
We know from Trek II that Kirk received a commendation for original thinking for reprogramming the simulation making it possible to rescue the Kobayashi Maru. And this is how he got it??? By reprogramming the sim where Kirk does nothing???

Oh, but I like the homage from Trek II when Kirk was eating an apple when telling the story and him doing it on the simulation.

Whoop dee do! [eyes2] Stupid and pointless fan service.

TBC...

[–] FilmBuff (6685) 6 years ago

Since it's all fiction, who's to say, but you're taking one small historical sample, 1945 to 2018, and assuming technology always advances at that pace. There are long periods of slow development, then big leaps. Besides, wasn't the enemy ship a mining ship? Who knows how long those things stay in service, or what level of weaponry they're outfitted with? It's build may well have predated that of the state-of-the-art Kelvin. And really, as the Kelvin WAS destroyed, the only question is how much more quickly might more advanced weapons deplete modern shields?

More to the point-- it's science fiction. It's make-believe. It's a movie. And a damned good one, at that. The characters had depth. They were funny, and they were serious. There were powerful moments. If you didn't tear up when Kirk's dad died, well... I don't know what to say. And if you didn't cheer in joy and surprise when the Enterprise came out of hyperspace, guns blazing, to save Spock at the end, again, not sure what to say. For me, this movie had it all, and it's among the greatest of its genre ever made.

[–] Sandman27 (3043) 6 years ago

"Since it's all fiction, who's to say, but you're taking one small historical sample, 1945 to 2018, and assuming technology always advances at that pace. There are long periods of slow development, then big leaps."

As time goes by, does technology develop as history has shown? As Trek is further in the future than present day and fiction STILL must operate under the constraints of plausibility, pray tell which of us makes more sense?

"Imagine an army from 10,000 B.C. facing an army from 5,000 B.C. 5000 years, and yet-- the difference is immeasurably less than what an army from 1518 would face against one from 2018, and that's only 1/10 the amount of time."

Had you read what you wrote, you would've noticed the trends in technological development in history.

"Presumably by the time warp speed travel and photons and all that shit has been figured out, the differences in the technology from 100 years later won't be anywhere near as drastic as would 1945 to 2018."

Why?

"More to the point-- it's science fiction. It's make-believe. It's a movie. And a damned good one, at that."

Translation: You liked it, so who cares how implausible the story was. Okay then.

"The characters had depth."

Depth? Pray elaborate.

"They were funny, and they were serious. There were powerful moments. If you didn't tear up when Kirk's dad died, well... I don't know what to say."

I didn't tear up when daddy bought it, so I guess you don't know what to say. Unfortunately, I don't tear up at scenes when people die carry zero weight and are obvious.

"And if you didn't cheer in joy and surprise when the Enterprise came out of hyperspace, guns blazing, to save Spock at the end, again, not sure what to say. For me, this movie had it all, and it's among the greatest of its genre ever made."

No I didn't cheer either, but I'll get to that part of the movie soon. That was only part 1 of the thread.

[–] FilmBuff (6685) 6 years ago

The point is that as time passes, technological advances become less impactful, and the more advanced we become, the less they matter. It's not hard to imagine that by the time we can travel at light speed and develop shields to minimize the damage from "photon blasts," 100 years of advancement will be unnoticeable. And, again, it's science fiction. We don't know the answers, so we accept and enjoy plausible ones given to us in stories.

Go ahead and post 10 more parts to the post. Maybe someone else cares what a lowbrow rube like you has to say about things beyond your emotional and intellectual depth, but after reading your rude and confused response to what was a friendly post on my part, I'm no longer interested in this discussion.

[–] Sandman27 (3043) 6 years ago

"The point is that as time passes, technological advances become less impactful, and the more advanced we become, the less they matter. It's not hard to imagine that by the time we can travel at light speed and develop shields to minimize the damage from "photon blasts," 100 years of advancement will be unnoticeable."

You state an analogy that is completely contradictory to this and yet you still don't understand. Are you that Ignorant to your own conclusion???

"And, again, it's science fiction. We don't know the answers, so we accept and enjoy plausible ones given to us in stories."

Do you see what you just did? Even if you were right, which you are not by your own words, you just gave a dismissive statement saying nothing matters it's just a movie. I don't care if you liked it nor am I trying to change your mind in that instance. What you replied and how you contradicted yourself within the same post doesn't say too much about your intelligence level. That conclusion is consistent with you liking this movie. Apparently, not much has changed after these years have passed. What else is new?

"Go ahead and post 10 more parts to the post. Maybe someone else cares what a lowbrow rube like you has to say about things beyond your emotional and intellectual depth, but after reading your rude and confused response to what was a friendly post on my part, I'm no longer interested in this discussion."

Oh how I've missed the insults when one cannot form a coherent argument or rebuttal. Apparently asking for an elaboration of an unfounded conclusion is an attack on ones character. What a joke!

Nice knowing you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrEwCa8nSA

[–] sunshine62 (238) 6 years ago

To FilmBuff.

______________________________
by Sandman :

The Kelvin should have been destroyed.

@ by FilmBuff:
Seeing it's fiction who's to say?..... It's make-believe. It's a movie. And a damned good one, at that.

_________________________
by me:

I agree with Sandman .It's sci fiction but it still should make sense ( within the film).

Liking the film shouldn't stop you from admitting the illogical moments.

Forget about technology advancement in history and let's just focus on the FACTS shown or stated in the film.

The Narada was able to destroy the entire Klingon armada (47 SHIPS Uhura stated ) and up to 5/6 Starfleet ships around Vulcan yet it was not able to stop the Kelvin , one damaged survey ship , which the Narada already had its weapons locked onto .

Does that make sense to you?😳
___________________________

By FilmBuff :

Characters had depth .

@.NuSpock was completely out of character.

Spock's emotional behaviour and his love story with Uhura did not make sense.

Spock was born on Vulcan 3 years before Nero even arrived .The alternate timeline he created could not have influenced Spock's stoic upbringing on his home planet.

NuSpock jettisoning Kirk to the icy planet and deciding to meet the main Fleet in the Laurentian System (light years in the opposite direction of Earth where Nero was headed) were not just two ...out of character ..moments but also two decisions that didn't make any sense at all but needed to happen to move the plot in a certain direction.

Liking the film is okay but one should be willing to acknowledge it's obvious shortcomings too.

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sunshine62 (238) 6 years ago

@ to No 3 ..Kirk’s a douche.

Firstly ,I totally agree with you . I don’t think the writers played this card well. NuKirk entered the academy as a douchebag and after three long years of training he still is a douchebag.

Demonstrating he had matured and had some qualities as a leader in a life and death situation would have made Captain Pike’s decision to make NuKirk second in command some what more feasible.

by Sandman.
We know from Trek II that Kirk received a commendation for original thinking for reprogramming the simulation making it possible to rescue the Kobayashi Maru. And this is how he got it??? By reprogramming the sim where Kirk does nothing???
________________
@In the “Wrath of Khan “ Prime Kirk reveals that he changed the conditions of the KM test and received a commendation for original thinking ..

NuKirk also change the conditions of the test but instead got a demerit.

So if both re-programmed the test why the different outcome.

A lot of viewers just said: alternate timeline , different outcome.

This does not only not make sense, it discredits PrimeKirk who certainly was never a douchebag.

So where does the truth stand.

We know that when NuKirk changed the conditions of the simulation he programmed it.... so that when confronted the Klingons shields (for no reason) would shut down making it an easy kill and an effortless win for himself.
Putting the Klingons at a disadvantage ,NuKirk ensured himself certain victory without merit.

During the disciplinary hearing NuKirk told NuSpock that the test was in itself a cheat because it was a no-win scenario so that was why he decided to re programmed the test.

To be coherent he should have just made the conditions fair for both sides .This way he would have had a fighting chance to win and also a chance to demonstrate his military abilities as a leader .

next page

[–] sunshine62 (238) 6 years ago

continue..

Instead during the simulation NuKirk was “busy” giving attitude because he already knew he had the victory in his pocket.

In “ The Wrath of Kahn” Prime Kirk pointed out that he received a commendation for original thinking…something obviously NuKirk didn’t do . He won the test without effort and victory came without merit.

From this we can deduce that PrimeKirk instead re programmed the simulation to be fair and he won using his abilities which obviously impressed the members of the academy and earned him a commendation.

So yes both Kirks re-programmed the test but only NuKirk won cheating . He gave himself a winning hand. At best he showed how dishonest and what a douchebag he was and that’s why he ended up getting a demerit which he totally deserved.

On the other hand , Prime Kirk played correctly , he re-programmed the conditions of the test to be fair for both parts. And both sides now had equal possibilities to win. ( that was the purpose behind him wanting to re programme the test from the beginning ) .

Unlike NuKirk, he made victory possible but not inevitable for himself . He had to fight to win using his skills and that’s what earned him a commendation.

Personally, I don’t think the “original thinking “ is referring to the fact that he came up with the idea to re- programme the test. The “original thinking “ instead is referring to the way he won the test after he re programmed it so he had a chance to win it.

[–] JestersDead (485) 5 years ago

It was a mining ship versus a warship. It's feasible the warship could've survived that long, which negates your argument.

[–] Sandman27 (3043) 5 years ago

Where is it stated that the Kelvin is a warship? Even if it was, it’s still a moot point since the Narada had Borg tech and 24th century weaponry. Again, one tomahawk missile would destroy a WWII battleship. That tech is only a half a century’s worth of advancement.

[–] JestersDead (485) 5 years ago

I dunno, but it's not the worst aspect of the film anyway.

I actually agree with nearly all your other points on your other posts.

They hung around for 25 years, yeah right.

[–] Sandman27 (3043) 5 years ago

When you think about it, they can’t have this movie without this ridiculous opening sequence. Because it’s so stupid, it permeates the entire movie.

Yes, it’s not the worst offending issue of the movie, but being it’s the first one that sets up the rest of the movie, it is arguably the most egregious.