MovieChat Forums > Cassandra's Dream (2008) Discussion > which character is the worse person?

which character is the worse person?

posted 15 years ago by pimper88
23 replies | jump to latest

what interested me about cassandra's dream was the characters. ian is a kind man who many people like. by killng byrns he is trying to get a start in the world but he ultimately wants to be a good honest man. yet he sees little wrong with killing a man. terri is an alcoholic whos gambling problem causes much financial distress on him and his family. he is a very dishonest man (lending out other people's cars) but the idea of murder frightens him and when he finally commits it he becomes extremely depressed. which brother is the worse person? the one who can commit murder without guilt or the dishonest one who is addicted to gamboling, alcohol, and smoking?

[–] re_incarnate 15 years ago

I also thought that the characters in this film were very well written and it's interesting to see all the different aspects ones personality. I think that the point was to show that nobody is ultimately good or bad, but that we have different layers in our personality and we reveal them depending on contexts and situations

[–] GodivaVII 15 years ago

While I totally agree with re_incarnate, if I had to paint the characters black and white, I would say Ewan McGregor's character was the worst of the two. He was easily persuaded to kill someone (let's face it: family ties were not his main motivation), and egged his obviously troubled brother into helping to commit the act. (Personally I believed he would have done it alone but was afraid of being blackmailed) When Terry was distressed toward the end of the movie, Ian brushed him away, and only gave him the time of day when their uncle put him up to killing him. As obviously troubled as Farrell's character was, he was always well-intentioned. With regard to Terry lending cars out as evidence of him being a bad person, McGregor's character seemed to coerce him into doing it (at least the second time). McGregor's character certainly seemed like he knew he was the dominant brother and took advantage of his power over his Terry throughout the entire film. I kind of saw the two of them as the two halves of Lady MacBeth, with McGregor being the determined, egoistic half, and Farrell's character as the guilt-ridden wreck that she becomes toward the end of the play.

I certainly agree that the characters made the movie though, and to side with re_incarnate again, I totally thought Ian was the better of the two brothers at the start.

[–] circus14 15 years ago

For the *beep* sake, original poster!

You really think that being a smoker makes you a bad person or were you high when you wrote your message?

Seriously, McGregor's character was unscrupulous and selfish whereas Farrel's character was just messed up. And that not only based on the murder but also on the extremely tackless way he dismissed his first waitress girlfriend when he fell in love with Atwell. He was very inconsidering and the only redeeming quality he had was that I think he genuinely cared for his brother.

---I don't know enough to be incompetent.---

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] PvtRolandBozz 15 years ago

that was just to depict his flaws as a human being. He was the better one, without a doubt.

the truth is we can't all be stars, but I'll be god damned if I'll settle for bronze....

[–] Judger 15 years ago

I also thought Farrel would be the "evil" brother because of his problems, but I think the point is that he was weak, not evil. He gave in to his addictions and was pushed around by his brother, but did not intend harm to anyone.

He committed the murder because he was too weak to stand up to his brother and face his problems. You could also say he was too weak to live with what he had done, but he at least recognized that the act was evil.

I was born in the house my father built

[–] gil-galad_ 15 years ago

Although I think it´s pretty clear who´s the less moral(ewan) of the brother´s being weak is not an excuse for commiting murder. He still makes that choice.

[–] meneldil 12 years ago

exactly

[–] BarrisDarkly 15 years ago

Up until the very end, Terry is the worse person of the two. Then Ian, desperate, decides to off him by pouring the pills into the bottle, to kill his own brother. When it comes to the actual killing, Ian is just more collected and more able to keep it together, while Terry falls apart. It's not that Ian was cold blooded or anything...well, at least not until the end.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] rosie485 13 years ago

It's interesting the comment their mother makes to Terry when he asks her for money, regarding Ian "At least he's got some conscience - you NEVER had any conscience."

Terry is weak, but the thought of murder horrified him at the start. Ian, however, had little hesitation. "It's a job", like as if they're in the army.

[–] mramlow 15 years ago

Thew worst person is Uncle Howard, by far.

[–] gil-galad_ 15 years ago

Really?

Colin´s character does it _reluctantly_ to save himself and possibly his family from loan sharks.

Howard does it to, as far as we know, save himself from lifetime imprisonment.

While Ewan´s character does it to being able to start up a business and to save his brother.

Don´t think it´s clear between Ewan and Howard.

[–] Fred-S 10 years ago

Not even close!

Neither Terry nor Ian tried to make the uncle feel as though he was obligated to help them. Both were initially repulsed by the idea of killing anyone. It was only the uncle who attacked the character of the brothers for being unwilling to "help him". He threatened to totally end not only his relationship with the brothers, but with the entire family. It is true that Ian gave in more easily, and had it not been for his pressure Terry most likely would not have given in. But, remember that this is a very close family. Uncle Howard had helped everyone in the family in the past. I kept asking myself how I would have handled the situation if I were one of the brothers. I know that I would not have killed anyone, but I do not know exactly in what manner I would have refused. On the other hand, Howard not only wanted them to kill the man, he wanted them to do it in such a way that he would not even know where, when or how it was done. He was, in effect, removing himself from any role in the act.
That was evil.

[–] pfcarini 15 years ago

Come on people, its no contest.
How could there even be a discussion. Ian was the bad guy.
Go back to the conversation Terry was having with his mom when he asks for the money.
She says something to the effect (paraphrsing) "at least your brother has a conscience".
Implying Terry was without one.
Of course thats not how it turned out.

[–] PvtRolandBozz 15 years ago

I totally agree. IT seems like the parents deemed Terry as the bad one and Ian as the harmless good one, but of course ppl can be decieving

the truth is we can't all be stars, but I'll be god damned if I'll settle for bronze....

[–] Kiers77 15 years ago

Yes! Very true. towards the latter part of his career (sounds so obit page don't it! but that's NOT my intention) woody allen is more and more agnostic, dualistic, existential. There is this WONDERFUL key line at the end of "match point" where Mathew Goode's character says of his sister's newborn in a toast: "I don't hope he's skilled, I hope he's lucky"!!!

That's the key theme of the world view: "PREDOMINANCE OF LUCK OVER VIRTUE". and indeed who amongst us can judge "good" and "bad" and yet we ALL DO IT ALL THE TIME. OUR PARENTS TAKE PRIDE TEACHING US THE DIFFERENCE BETWWEEN THE TWO...ITS ALL FRAUD! Allen breaches this topic like fine butter. Imagine if the French writer exposed similar themes...it would be so existential crisis type...but woody weaves a tight story and actually entertains on the way.

[–] artihcus022 15 years ago

SPOILERS I suppose...

ian is a kind man who many people like.

He has to be, because he is trying to hustle up his schemes for the hotel business. Being likable is his way of getting what he wants.

. by killng byrns he is trying to get a start in the world but he ultimately wants to be a good honest man.

What he wants is, to be seen as a success. Having a beautiful artistic wife, living in California, buying a Bentley, this is all his way to the top. And to do that, he needs luck.

which brother is the worse person?

Woody Allen's films aren't about that, especially not a masterpiece like Cassandra's Dream. It's about the existential questions, the way people try to live their lives and what they do to get what they want and how they live afterwards.

the one who can commit murder without guilt or the dishonest one who is addicted to gamboling, alcohol, and smoking?

In this case, you can say that Ian is practical and hard-working and has a will to survive being the more personable and better educated while Terry is self-destructive and suicidal and his persistent guilt is little more than a death wish spurred by alcohol and pills. I don't think that either are especially conscientious.

"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

[–] bthr 12 years ago

for your question who is worse, in my opinion its Terry.
having guilt feelings doesnt make you good person, Ian had guilt as well but he just knew how to handle them.
Terry is willing to go to the police KNOWING he will take his brother, uncle and everyone around him with him.
he is also a man who hurts his wife by wasting all of their money, drinking and taking pills probably to death.
and at the end of the day, the murder was his choice. might have been persuaded a bit but still his choice.

think about this this way: in many poor neighborhoods there are some men who took their family and kids down with him because of gambling and drinking problems. any social worker see it every day.
what do you think of that man ?
well, thats Terry.