MovieChat Forums > The Messenger (2009) Discussion > There's No Crying In Baseball -- Absolut...

There's No Crying In Baseball -- Absolutely Not in the Military


This movie is 100% B.S. to anyone who has Served in the U.S. Armed Forces. As a former Navy Officer, I had the unfortunate duty of meeting a lost sailor's parents at the airport, escorting them to the hospital, and packing all of his belongings in box. It was tough emotionally, but together with a Navy Chaplain, we comforted the parents as best we could (professionally, with respect).

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Thank you for your service, and particularly for such a grueling role. The families deserve all the comfort that can be provided.

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You did it ONE time. Imagine if you were on call 24 hours a day and went through it all the time like Groundhog Day. Your tune might be different if it was your regular duty.

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I'm not sure I understand your comment. I've never done it at all, and cannot imagine the pain and suffering of those having to deliver such devastating news. I was giving my admiration to the original poster who has done this very sad duty, because it takes a very special kind of commitment to remain dignified when involved in such deeply painful and personal events such as the loss of a child during war time.

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I was commenting on the original poster who dealt with one family after they were already notified. He felt like that qualified him to comment on people who had to do it all the time. This kind of service would wear anyone down until they cried.

My father served in the US Navy in WWII and saw constant action in the Pacific on the Yorktown including having his ship hit and trying to save lives.

He later re enlisted but in the Air Force for the Korean War. He said he hated the Navy because the officers treated all enlisted men like dirt compared to the army and air force. I think this is because they go back to Revolutionary War times in New England and used to draw the officers from a hard core group generation after generation.

When the USS Pueblo was captured by the North Koreans, they had a broken down old boat with no back up. I remember after they got back some old hard shell admiral who had ridden a desk for a zillion years said the captain should have been court martialed and sent to prison. He thought it was preferable that all of them died. Too bad it wasn't him.

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that special kind of commitment in this case is clearly just the silly fear of showing weakness by crying.

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Are you saying that people in the military don't cry? I just don't understand your claim that the movie is B.S. to the US military?

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"Former Navy Officer"

So you were a POG. I've seen my buddies cry after hearing of a fellow brother in arms kept killed by the Taliban. You sat on a boat and pretended to be important.

[Spoiler]If you aint Cav, you aint *beep*

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Former Army E-4 (Specialist) here,

Yes, there is crying in the military. In 2001, one of my friends, and fellow soldier, was murdered while 8 months pregnant. There were 6 jr. Enlisted, 2 NCOS, and a damn O-1 in the area when that news broke, and not one of us went without shedding a tear. Rage is also very acceptable. No NCO or brass worth their merit would have rebuked us, but had we done so in public reactions might have been different. We are taught from day one that A) our every action reflects upon our friends and the uniform and B) that you civvies are very impressionable. So you get a lot of misplaced bravado and silly claims that we don't cry. We do. Just not in front of you. It is not appropriate for all ranks to show tears in front of other ranks. But there are situations where anyone would say anything, and the story I told you is one of them. Incidentally, the murder is now in CID's cold case files, and the murderer remains at large.

By the way, my Nuke friend here was right about one thing: The Casualty Notification Officers do not function exactly as Captain Stone outlined. Emotion is permissible. Touching is okay in a limited capacity, will go with NOK to break the news to certain other family, and so on and so forth. There's a wide degree of flexibility in how this service is executed. What you saw was simply Captain Stone's method. He was a recovering alcoholic. It is sometimes necessary for recovering alcoholics to adopt very rigid, absolutized, dichotomous methods, perspectives, sets of rules, often very black-and-white and zero interpretation. AA is set up that way for the purposes of self-accountability and to avoid equivocation. So if you meet a recovering alcoholic is very strict (call it limited), rigid, all black-and-white in their thinking, please understand this may have been structured purposefully to keep themselves under control and evolved into a worldview.

Please understand that I am not trying to generalize or disparage recovering alcoholics, but explaining a system of thinking that may be in play, one I had decipher on my own (as a social service worker at the time, the last thing I wanted to do was deconstruct someone's way of thinking and analyze it when they were simply trying to cope). I hope it is well-received.

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You're probably not going to read this anymore, but I just wanted to say thank you for such a good, well thought out post. It's not every day I learn something new (and actually encounter civilized people) on IMDB.

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thank you

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@Jungian80 Thanks for giving us your take on this topic. You make some very interesting points.

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I'm sorry for your loss.

____
Love the Christian, Hate the Dogma

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Thank you for your service.

I served in the military for 8 years, former navy myself, i never saw action, so i never had to do a notification, but i think its BS to call this movie BS.

I do think however you missed a big part of this movie, Woody Harrelson Character was a recovering alcholic, he had to remain emotionless otherwide he would lose his mind and fall off the wagon, which you see him do at the end of the movie, ben fosters character is in direct contrast with woody, as he wants to be there and comfort the families, he didnt think he would, but after the first notification, it affected him deeply, and him being a fixer he wanted to extend the compasion that harralsons character couldnt, thats why harrolson flips out after the last notification when fosters character gets on the ground with the parents, comforts them as best as he could, they both lost it after that.

the army wasnt wanting drones delivering the notifaction, sure they may have wanted some separation, but due to capt stones, issues he took the separation to a whole new level.

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I also thank you for your service; I'm currently an officer in the Army. That said, I don't know why you make the assumption that you just made. So no one in the military ever cries? I grant that when making a notification you should keep yourself composed, but did it never occur to you that sometimes people can't help it? Is it beyond the grasp of your imagination to believe that a notification officer might break down and cry when giving a notification? It's an extremely emotional event.

You might as well have said, "This movie is B.S. because nobody in the military would EVER yell at their superior officer. I never did it while I was in, so that means that no one would ever do it."

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Military life is extremely tough, and people do cry. It is not BS. I was an infantry soldier and I cried when I had to say goodbye to my elderly mother as I was getting ready to leave to Iraq, and I have no shame in admitting it.

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yeah I cried like a baby when I was in the Atlantic and my division officer told me my father died, some stuff hits you and there is nothing you can do to stop the tears no matter how tough you act, then I of course had to see the chaplain, I said I was ok and got back to work, never cried again, you gotta complete the mission, and worry about it when you can, any emotions you show is only going to negatively effect those around you, they don't need to be reminded of mortality, in the military you can get so emotionally hardened and so suppressed that you'll find yourself in your rack/bunk at night trying to force tears to see if you still can, because you don't want to lose that part of yourself because crying is strictly a human function, in the military it's more acceptable to punch something than cry, I mean as soon as you graduate bootcamp you want to find a fight and crying is for the bootcamp failures, but yeah of course everyone cries, the military just does it when it's appropriate



"how's a fella go about gettin' a holt of the police?" -Karl

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