MovieChat Forums > Crazy Love (2007) Discussion > Don't judge until you watch...

Don't judge until you watch...

posted 17 years ago by tracyyee
32 replies | jump to latest

Caught a screening of this documentary -- one of the most fascinating stories I've seen. You can't make this stuff up (no one would believe it).

I was drawn to how dysfunctional these people must be. After the screening, I can say that the film is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and how f-ed up life can be. It's not a fairy tale, and Linda (Riss) Pugach doesn't make it one.

The real story here, in my opinion, is the strength of Linda to adapt and make the best of her situation. They do gloss over the 16 or so years that Burt was in jail. But unless you're in Linda's situation, you can't judge the choice she makes to get back with Burt. It's her friends that ultimately help set up a meeting with Burt post-jail release, and there's a reason for that. I think that Burt is certifiably nuts, but after watching everything, I see that Linda is a one tough cookie (almost robotic in some way) and is not suffering his foolishness. If she is OK with how things turned out, there is no reason to fault her for that. This is a woman who essentially lost everything, but found a way to make peace and take care of herself -- and even find some kind of happiness.

If you're thinking of checking this film out, it's worth it. It's good. There are no reenactments and it is entirely put together on interview footage. It's 1.5 hours long. If you don't come out of it with a thousand perspectives and thoughts, I would be surprised.

[–] [email protected] 17 years ago

I'm sorry to say that the horrible moral of this story seems to be if you want a woman badly enough, disfigure her so that no one else will want her, then she's yours. Kind of like the guy who licks the car he wants in the commercial to make it unattractive to other buyers. Actually, there is nothing unusual about women marrying their abusers - historically the resolution of the crime of rape has often been the raptist marrying his victim - again, for much the same reason - after she's been deflowered, no one else wants her.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Brainiac138 17 years ago

this movie kind of reminded me of the documentary "IF I Should Fall from Grace" and "A Drink with Shane MacGowan", both about MacGowan, but in the documentary they kind of gloss over how horrible and abusive MacGowan was to his very long time girlfriend Victoria Clarke, but the book delves into it, and I don't know, just seeing the ads for this film reminded me of how some women actually do find some sort of happiness (if that is the right word) with their abusuers. Oh well, just a thought I had.

[–] NickNameNotAllowed-2 17 years ago

I don't imagine this is any more romantic then a husband who beats his wife and she stays with him because its love. i'm sure the movie makes you feel very sympathetic but these aren't the type of people who should be glorified. Its great these two found each other, they are cut from the same demented mold.

[–] elizdv 17 years ago

I don't imagine this is any more romantic then a husband who beats his wife and she stays with him because its love. i'm sure the movie makes you feel very sympathetic but these aren't the type of people who should be glorified. Its great these two found each other, they are cut from the same demented mold.

I have not seen this yet, but I saw their interview on the view. I agree this story is no more romantic than any story of domestic violence - the degree being zero. I also feel it should not be glorified (I do not know if Crazy Love does this). I do not judge her because, as I said, the woman is not different from any woman who is a victim of DV.

Are the issues surrounding DV delved into here? I certainly hope so. . . People sometimes do stay for what they believe is love, sometimes they stay out of fear, lack of resources, isolation, lack of support. . . Whatever the reason, it is the result of the manipulation of the abuser. Perfectly intelligent, strong women remain in abusive relationships as a result of the calculated behaviors the abuser engages in to manipulate her. If none of these issues are brought to the surface, then a discussion of any case is of no use other than to look at them as dysfunctional/crazy and saying "Oh, can you believe that?"

A good website:
http://www.ndvh.org/

[–] jeehah07 17 years ago

I couldn't agree with you more. I haven't seen this movie, nor will I waste my money or my time. I work with domestic violence and sexual assault survivors everyday. It is my job. They are scared, hurt, and emotionally/physically scarred for life because of someone they thought they knew and trusted. I understand why she went back with him...ultimately it was her choice. But I'm sorry...if I got doused in acid by someone who said that "they loved me" I would certainly be emotionally dysfunctional for the rest of my life. I would be so confused. She's with him because she feels like she has no other choice. First...you have to be a certain kind of woman to hold a two year r'ship with a married man. That type of woman is completely afraid and totally insecure with herself. Second...she's still so insecure about herself that she ended up with him in the end because she feels she has NO OTHER OPTION. Who else would love her? This is the question I bet she was asking herself when she decided to accept his proposal.

And another thing I don't understand...to any of you who saw the interview...she said "he looked so good after prison. They must've done something to him, but he just looked so good." Uh, I thought she was blind. How could she see what he looked like?

[–] holborne 17 years ago

No, she was not completely blind. Until a number of years after the attack, she was partially sighted -- she could see light and dark with one eye and large objects (like, I suppose, a person), with the other. It wasn't until relatively recently that she lost all her sight.

[–] veronicalmosley 13 years ago

Jeehah07, the thing is that she DIDN'T KNOW he was married. She was dating him and it wasn't until his wife told her. Once she found out, she broke it off with him and he showed her an official looking, (but fake) divorce papers. She told him off once she found out the papers were fake and moved on to another person. She was engaged and about to get married when he got the goons to pour lye in her face.
Another thing, she wasn't fully blind until her heart surgery.

[–] Eva1-1 15 years ago

Agreed. I also don't think the movie makes you feel sorry for either of them. It just makes me realize, as has been said already, what sick F----S they both are. The reason for him is obvious. As for her, I cannot even begin to imagine why she'd take him back, let alone want him back. Her personality (as she described it as a young woman) seemed to be that of the tough babe from Brooklyn (or Bronx, whereever she's from). If you recall, as soon as he did it, she said she wanted to kill him -- and who could blame her. This woman was tough AND she had and still has a ton of friends. So why then would she need this crackpot? Even the "half" a woman on TCM found a husband, so I find it hard to believe that Linda wouldn't be able to find someone!

[–] miles-29 17 years ago

"the horrible moral of this story seems to be if you want a woman badly enough, disfigure her so that no one else will want her, then she's yours."

You're confusing a moral with the outcome of one particular, and exceptional, real-life situation. This is so obviously a ridiculously extreme story that to draw any generalities from it is delusory at best.

[–] imdbyes 17 years ago

I saw it tonight, and I think that man is just disgusting and pathetic. But I think maybe there is soemthing like "stolkhome syndrome" going on here. I do agree that her self-esteem was down in the dumps and then after being blinded it was even worse-fuggedaboutit! She stayed cause she felt like, "who else is gonna take me?", altho that is not true, she could've found herself a good, decent man. I don't want to judge someone, until we are in that persons shoes we cannot judge.

[–] bmlmb 17 years ago

It's "Stockholm Syndrome"-like the city

[–] brittany_behrens 16 years ago

By the time she accepted Burt's marriage proposal, two other men who said they wanted to marry her bailed on her. Her first fiancee left when the papers were gone, the second one left as soon as he saw her eyes. By the time she accepted Burt's proposal, that "who else is going to love me" mentality she had that contributed to her decision to marry him was probably very true.

www.myspace.com/musket

[–] ManicMuse 16 years ago

She also had a huge fear of being left alone and unable to take care of herself. Burt managed to keep her undesirable and dependent. I would hardly describe that as 'making the best' of a situation. She just gave up on the romantic dream and became detached - focusing only on being provided for. Him being able to take care of her was her initial reason for dating him in the first place. It was the things he could do for her, not who he was. The look on her face in the end is heartbreaking.

"WHO'S ON TOP & WHO'S ON BOTTOM NOW, huh?! WHO'S ON TOP & WHO'S ON BOTTOM NOW!"

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] ManicMuse 16 years ago

i think her not being able to find a guy to accept her completely is the reason for her feelings of being undesirable, which i think she did feel. she was only desired when not fully revealed, that has to be a harsh reality for a girl once considered so attractive. she feared being without anyone to take care of her. it's a very old way of thinking, but back then you expected to land a good husband to provide for you. she was the last of her single gal pals and her health was deteriorating. she knew that burt cared for her to the extreme and would care for her and be that husband provider. it's a warped view, but he would not reject her (which i am sure really hurt her in the past despite how casually some of the stories were told). in the end she traded romance for the sweet revenge of nagging the man to death.

"WHO'S ON TOP & WHO'S ON BOTTOM NOW, huh?! WHO'S ON TOP & WHO'S ON BOTTOM NOW!"

[–] SheBear 16 years ago

The Stockholm Syndrome analogy occured to me too while watching this though I guess technically it's not really accurate.

It's easy to judge a situation like this but ultimately she is his burden and he is hers and in that way they are perfect together.

Redheads not warheads

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] TheLightFantastic 11 years ago

I disagree that Linda had a fear of "being left alone" due to the fact shortly after Burt’s incarceration, she went with girlfriends on a whirlwind trip to Europe. From her account, they had a great time and Linda bragged about her slim figure as seen in photos of her (w/dark glasses of course) with men. Even after she returned to NYC, men were attracted to her and one suitor even wanted to introduce her to his family.

Linda's fear stemmed from how they would react to the sight of her eyes and why she saw herself as “damaged goods.” She dated another guy for a while but after his reaction to her true appearance, the relationship is never the same from that point on. I guess it was too much for him though Linda never seemed serious about him yet loved his personality however it was still enough rejection to feed her insecurities about men.

Linda also managed to keep her job and a small apartment while Burt was in jail. Burt only becomes an option after friends meddled a bit and when he sent a check of $4,000 to support her. By that time, Linda was close to forty and really didn't have much of a family, which caused her best girlfriends to intervene and set up a meeting with Burt following his public declaration on t.v.

Did we watch the same film? Going on a fun trip to Europe doesn't mean anything. When they all came back home, her friends were getting married, having families, and moving on. Yeah, she attracted men on a superficial level but she knew once they saw her eyes they would hit the road. In short, she thought she had no options and didn't want to end up a little old blind lady living by herself. Her friend even said she was living alone and had no one on the horizon.

Instead of helping her find some kind of career where she may have flourished or hell, even setting her up with blind man, they "intervened" and got her back together with her attacker. I'm not blaming her friends but sheesh, there had to be other options. There are communities for people with disabilities everywhere - I can't imagine they didn't have one in New York City even back in the 60s and 70s. She got it in her head that she was damaged goods when she really wasn't. I've seen guys hook up and marry women who are way worse off than her. I don't know...I think they just wanted to be together. She wrote off a horrific thing as a little blip on the radar to justify being with the guy.

[–] whoyaaah 9 years ago

I think a big part of it was that Burt had a lot of money.... I really believe that if he had lost his practice and was just scraping by, she never would have went back with him. Money talks, and in this case, I think it's spoke very loudly! She thought about her options, and seeing that men were no longer attracted to her because of her eyes, and Burt over there with lots of money, he could not only take care of her, but do it in style with lots of trips and meals and baubles, etc....

[–] BakerCan 16 years ago

I would much rather be alone than marry a man who threw acid in my face. He is a psychopathic womanizer. Is it really that horrible to be alone? How low can your self esttem be that no man would ever want you because you were blind?I truly don't understand the mentality here. No sympathy for the couple featured in this doc and therefore hard to care what happened to them.

[–] MSStMarie 16 years ago

Yeah.

He got his way, didn't he?

"Have her beat up; scare her enough so she'll come back to me."

He won.

But she also did.

It doesn't sound as though she's making his life easy.

Good for her.

---------
Aagh; you're a HEDGE!

[–] pynkpanther 16 years ago

she had no fear of being left alone and had no reason to believe that she would ever be alone until he did that crap to her.

like the ex-secretary said, he made her what she is today.

she didn't punish him by being a bitch to him forever because HE will never be alone now.

so, who really won?

[–] star_power 14 years ago

I agree. If anything this story just demonstrates how archaic it all was. So desperately about everything BUT love. Was it medieval times? Was it the 1950s? Women as property and a function of their youth plus their looks added to their "virtue"/"chastity" (virginity) added to whatever other markers determines the value of the merchandise. Also women as powerless and insignificant or socially marginalized or left behind without a man. Any man. Even the one who abused/abuses you or the one who attacked you. And women having to be totally dependent on a man for material survival. He starved her out so she had to relent.

"Which one do you want darling? Bald, blinded, approaching 40, unemployed, limited or no job prospects, financially struggling and unable to keep that used to be pretty head above water....or back to my place? Your choice, honey."

And yeah. I think that nutjob cop that set them up was thinking you're responsible for the damages so take the goods you spoiled. "You broke it, you buy it". And so was Linda.

[–] grybop 9 years ago

Not every movie has a moral - let alone a documentary. There is no moral in this story. You cannot compare Linda's story to anyone else's. She was a woman in need, her life was virtually going nowhere 10 years after the accident. This is no Stockholm Syndrome, this is not a case of domestic violence, this is a case of a woman hanging onto her only chance to a decent living. Think about it.

[–] Deusvolt 15 years ago

Good comment. Do I see a smidgen of character in you after all?

[–] Savannah416 15 years ago

Linda didn't have strength, she was weakened by his attack and terrified, especially in the 70's to be alone for the rest of her life as a blind woman. Being with her abuser was better than being alone.

As for him, I wonder if his mother's abuse of him had anything to do with his psychosis.

[–] lornamd-1 13 years ago

I must admit that my reaction when Linda was so ferociously defending Burt for cheating on her after everything he had done was extreme irritation. But thinking about it afterwards I suppose she could be a victim of stockholm syndrome (which is feeling a bond towards your abuser, it doesn't have to be a kidnapper). So maybe I should feel sympathy not annoyance. Her idiot "friend" who encouraged her to get back together with him is the one I feel such irritation with now.

Burt however I have no sympathy for. If he was truly remorseful for his actions he wouldn't have constantly harassed her with letters and phony lawsuits while in prison and claimed that him blinding her showed he loved her. He's never truly taken responsibility for his actions or acknowledged just how horrific they truly were and it wouldn't surprise me if he is a sociopath.

[–] cervantes-4 11 years ago

As the director says in his commentary he considers both of these people emotionally damaged goods because of their childhood upbringing and both are incapable of normal intimacy. He is grateful that they had no children (in fact all Linda's friends told him that Linda was very probably still a virgin).

[–] esmeraldafriedman 10 years ago

I was thinking the same thing about his mother abusing him,and him having side effects of psychosis later in life.
Its probably why he also had no regard for women in general.
He seemed to be more...obsessed than in love with Linda.

[–] esmeraldafriedman 10 years ago

[–] 9 years ago

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