The scene where Eckhart's character removes his bloodied fingers from Jasira's trousers - oh my God. My mouth literally fell open with shock and, being a woman, I had to actually cross my legs. Then I had to pause the movie and walk around for a couple of minutes. I'm not even joking.
seriously, the thought of a full grown man doing that to a 13 year old - blows my mind.
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I learned very early on that men are quite disgusting.
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Seriously? You self-righteously chastise someone for making the kind of exaggerated statement a lot of people make, then you call her a whore? Really?
shareYes. I doubt she is a virgin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRRZf3dAU7M It's time to believe.
Ok so either youre a virgin or a whore? Ya that makes real sense, im guessing youre a virgin then?
share[deleted]
Only thing that has been proven from this conversation is sad irony.
Also I'm truly sorry that you feel the need to degragate half of the world's population.
joekarim wrote: <<Only thing that has been proven from this conversation is sad irony.>>
Oh, no, I think Sweiland75 proved he's a jerk.
and the only thing that the retarded sexist old women in this thread have proved is that they are naive bitches!
sharecoraneevix wrote: <<and the only thing that the retarded sexist old women in this thread have proved is that they are naive bitches!>>
Hmmmm. Coraneevix, do you know that it is considered prejudiced and insensitive to use the word "retarded" as an insult? It's also considered prejudiced and insensitive to use the word "old" as an insult. It's really rude. And stupid. And prejudiced. When you use the word "old" as an insult, you are saying that all old people are the same and that there is something wrong with being old.
You call women "sexist," then you turn right around and slam them with the classic sexist insult, "bitches." That's just dumb -- don't accuse someone of being sexist and then be sexist yourself. Basically, you have proved that you are prejudiced, insensitive, impolite, and stupid.
hey i'm just standing up for the guys in this that are being insulted because if you are not RETARDED! than you would have read that one of the hags had called ALL men rapists and pigs, and i'm just being honest with how stupid all of you sexist old women are. and, im not insulting old MEN i'm insulting old women like YOU, candy ass! jesus, and you call me "insecure'' or whatever you said that if *beep* retarded...
sharecoraneevix wrote: <<hey i'm just standing up for the guys in this that are being insulted because if you are not RETARDED!>>
Um, you are not standing up for anyone. You ARE insulting women, people you consider "old," and the developmentally disabled, however.
coraneevix wrote: <<than you would have read that one of the hags had called ALL men rapists and pigs, and i'm just being honest with how stupid all of you sexist old women are.>>
Still just being insulting...and you make no sense. Boy, you really need to proofread. Also, how can you call anyone you can't see a hag? Wait! Let's add something to the list! You are also insulting those you don't find attractive -- never mind that you have never actually seen these people and can't really judge whether they are attractive or not. It's just one of your insults.
coraneevix wrote: <<and, im not insulting old MEN i'm insulting old women like YOU, candy ass!>>
Yes, I understand you are insulting women. Everyone gets that. I guess that's all right with you. You have issues with women. You've made that clear. You are, as I said, also insulting "old" people and the developmentally disabled. It's interesting that you think it's all right to pour rage all over a bunch of people because one (you said "one of the hags") wrote something you found insulting.
coraneevix wrote: <<jesus, and you call me "insecure'' or whatever you said that if *beep* retarded...>>
A secure person doesn't act the way you do. An educated one doesn't write as badly as you do.
you proved her point, moron...most men are pigs...rapists,molesters,pedophiles,
.... monsters!!
Yes because it is well known that there are no women rapists,molesters and paedophiles on the planet..
That is why there are no females in prison..
Sorry! I know your post is old. Still I would like to ask if you still believe in your statements?
I know a few people who got molested/raped (by law its called rape) by women! There's just as many women who are paedophiles/molesters as men. Its a basic psychological and physiological thing. Many experience a sense of ownership over the individual (adult or child) as in the case of molesters. I wont go in further on the subject, as I didn't log on here to write an assay.
No female prisons... hmm! Care to withdraw that statement? Since you wrote that, you might have heard of places like "female correctional facilities", and they do exists. With plenty of women inside.
Men are bad, women are bad, allot of men are good, allot of women are good. There is no one definite answer to one gender.
We are all the sum of our own experience.
Ignorance is just things we still don't understand but might one day understand if we take the time to think of them for what they are.
All in all, its still a good film (towlhead/nothig is private) showing a part of what's wrong/strange with this world.
Another statement from me!
13 year old are children, but they are still allowed (read: demanded) to go dressed as "adults" (read: revealing, sexual). As I go shopping with my 10 yo, most cloth we find for her age are (what I wrote just above) too revealing. She's 10 and not an 18 yo who wants to show of her ass, legs. My god she's just staring to get breasts, "training bra" is okey! But linen to show of here "cleavage"!!!
For her to find comfy pants, we are drawn into the boys department.
Question!
Its wrong to think of kids/teens in a sexual way. But they are being painted as sexual beings by the fashion Industry! Wrong or not?
lak_is_god was being sarcastic. How could you not catch that?
"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"
Yes. I doubt she is a virgin.
I'm not. Thanks to your Mother.
http://learnyourdamnhomophones.com/ Learn your damn homophones.
That's about the level of wit I expected from you.
Spain brought they A+ game - LeBron James
You dragged me down to your level, dumbass.
http://learnyourdamnhomophones.com/ Learn your damn homophones.
This began with you calling that girl a whore, you fcking moron. You were already on that level.
Spain brought they A+ game - LeBron James
Haha. That made my day. Thank you :))
sharekudos to sweiland lmao...he's one of few on this site that would have the balls to talk back to that kind of bs...ey plus it was funny so anybody who whines about that being non-PC blah blah...cry me a fkin river...
shareYou're welcome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GZIDnMzZQ Why does Canada need a queen?
sweiland75 wrote: <<If you "know" most men then you are not the type of woman I want. You are a whore.>>
Oh, great way to defend men. Attack a woman. That works incredibly well. I am disgusted with what you wrote -- and your pathetic rhetorical technique.
Uh, I hate to be the one to point out the painfully obvious, but this person is making a joke based upon the archaic phrase, "to know", which is a euphemism for having sexual relations. Thus if one knows most men on the planet, they are most likely not a normally functioning sexual human.
shareJust like women. They put themselves out early for guys and easy.
sharePhoenix is the City wrote: <<Just like women. They put themselves out early for guys and easy.>>
Could you explain something to me, Phoenix? Why -- WHY is that men all want sex, and then despise the women who provide it honestly and easily? Why? What's the big deal?
I don't think this exists in gay male culture. I don't think gay men hate other men for "putting out" easily. This, afaik, exists only in heterosexual male culture (and not all straight guys are like this). It just baffles me -- why hate anyone who is more than happy to give you what you want?
Deep down, it stems from insecurity and a need to be the first one to 'reach that mountain top'.
Men are intimidated by sexually liberated women because.
1. It means they aren't virgin, and will actually be able to tell whether or not they're good lovers.
2. They might be unimpressed with penis size
3. They might decide he is so bad in bed they'd rather not have sex with him again, or maybe even decide to start having sex with someone else.
It's a way of controlling women while making yourself feel more masculine.
I have no respect for a man that doesn't view me as his equal. A man that has sex with me but thinks less of me BECAUSE I had sex with him is not a man I'd ever want to be involved with or even sleep with in the first place.
And to answer what you said about gay men... actually, this phenomenon sort of exists in SOME parts of gay culture. I personally know a few gay men that call other promiscuous gay men sluts and pride themselves on not being 'sluts'. This usually happens to 'bottoms', the gay guys who are on the 'receiving' end so to speak. The tops can never be sluts, of course.
But this type of slut-shaming definitely not as common in gay culture as it is in straight culture.
bite me loser 86, apart from having what might be the most awesome nym EVER, you also wrote something that I am sad to say I really needed to read. It was this:
<<I have no respect for a man that doesn't view me as his equal. A man that has sex with me but thinks less of me BECAUSE I had sex with him is not a man I'd ever want to be involved with or even sleep with in the first place.>>
At my age, I shouldn't need to be reminded of that, but I did need to be. Thank you, bite me loser 86 (I just had to say your totally awesome nym again).
You are stupid.
Please pick up the shattered remains of your point before you exit the chat
As if he'd call her a whore?
Woman and men both are allowed to have their opinions!
The woman (I've forgotten her name) who said all men are disgusting pigs (or something like that) has the same opinion of men as half the population do. It's not a chemical thing, you know. Women don't just NATURALLY hate men. Men make women hate men. i.e by calling any woman with an opinion a dumb whore.
Woman and men both are allowed to have their opinions!
The woman (I've forgotten her name) who said all men are disgusting pigs (or something like that) has the same opinion of men as half the population do.
It's not a chemical thing, you know.
Women don't just NATURALLY hate men.
Men make women hate men.
i.e by calling any woman with an opinion a dumb whore.
You're right, men are so discusting, heck, he was a guy in his 30s or 40s touching a 13 year old.
But women aint better, did you see movie Three Extremes? Women are eating dead human fetus just to stay young. Now THAT'S discusting!
Shame on you women, you are all so discusting.
the-rebel-angel;
You know what that says about you? That says you're a bad person.
If you want to start making generalities about genders, let's talk about the vapidness of the majority of women.
Or does that offend you, you moron?
How about this? The majority of PEOPLE are disgusting, and you my dear, are one of them.
Debt and debt and debt and debt and debt and then All will be enslaved.
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You're disgusting, ya boogawolf.
shareswelland: thank you for that post, I thought the same thing when I read that previous post. Yes, some men are sexual pigs who are obsessed with power and have a sick need to push that on the younger and weaker.
Not all men are like that....
Mitten, I had to laugh when you talked about crossing your legs only because I stiffened mine a bit when I saw that.
I was not shocked though. I learned very early on that men are quite disgusting. I watched a scene in a foreign film that I adore that had a rape scene that gave me nightmares for a week. I still will not watch it to this day.
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I'm a girl. Not all men are disgusting. And I see you girls are saying most men are. If that's the case then men have the right to say all women are "bitches". It's not fair to say only men are disgusting because I've met women who are disgusting...... I don't get why girls want equality and then they go off and say dumb stuff like this! Now that's DISGUSTING!
shareI think that's a stupid thing to say. Yes, there are disgusting men and yes there are disgusting females. No need to live in fear of both.
And you're talking about Irreversible, right? I'd rather refuse to watch the "fire extinguisher" scene twice, yet everyone seems to be so obsessed with the rape scene. Rape always wins over pure brutality in terms of disgust. Why is that? It's still human vs. human and both acts are executed against someone's will. Why doesn't anyone speak about the other scene which actually shows murder?
was it baise moi the movie you watched? those rape scenes were really bad
"You are the imagination of yourself"-bill hicks
Your sexism toward males only serves to make you look bigoted and ignorant.
shareThe double standard here is unbelievable. What difference would it have made if it was the boy her age doing it? What if it were a girl who did it? Would it blow your mind then? The reason these people are so dysfunctional is because of the crushing judgmental behavior and conflicting standards that you exhibit that have been placed upon them all of their lives. If we remember early in the movie it is pointed out that Jasira is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. The confusing way she is treated by everyone from the kids to the teachers, to her parents is mentally damaging to her.
share[deleted]
It is not a double standard. To start, there is a reason that "minors" have a different legal and social status all over the world. They are still children and cannot be expected to act and understand the world as an adult does. If adults and 13 year old's could function on the same level emotionally, we would all move from home and get jobs at 12 years of age. There is a reason we live under adult protection until we are well past puberty.
The neighbor is an authority figure because he is an adult. The power is not equal in that situation. As someone who was assaulted by a particular grown man on many occasions, trust me on this issue. It is very conflicting when you are told to obey adults, but an adult is the culprit. Yes, they teach you it is wrong and to tell your parents, but it is not so easy when it happens to you and you have two sets of adults telling you different things.
I had no problem yelling for a teacher when a boy tried to touch my body or something of nature. But that's because the boys were my age and we were equally empowered. Perhaps I had more power because teachers tended to believe the girls over the "nasty boys" who liked to pinch butts. It is not the same when you are 12-ish and the man is grown. Adults are supposed to protect children, not use them as sex toys.
There is a reason we live under adult protection until we are well past puberty.
That was pretty disturbing
shareThat was pretty brutal. I was so uncomfortable watching that.
No canned cheese or g-strings? How am I supposed to celebrate New Years?
I don’t think Mitten Kitten gets out much.
Routinely on television and movies people get their heads blown off, stomachs slashed open, brutally raped by foreign objects, . . . etc.
She says seeing a girl get her hymen broken during her first sexual encounter is one of the most horrifying scenes she has ever watched?
I hope Mitten Kitten never watches the evening news.
Well said. Some people (like Mitten Kitten) are more screwed up than those people who she accuses of wrongdoing.
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/ You can help change the world.
@movieliker1:
I never felt the need to register here to post comments before I saw the disgusting things you've said about this movie. Congratulations! Your stupidity has pissed me off just that much.
The way you talk about this film shows the incredible depths of your ignorance. It was not the fact that her hymen was broken during her first sexual encounter, as you like to claim. It was the fact that an older man forcibly penetrated a young girl, causing her immense pain (and yes, we KNOW that it did, because she said so during the encounter, twice; if you were paying attention, you would have noticed that) was, yes, extremely horrifying.
Yes, those things show up on television and in movies a lot. Do you know why people don't react very strongly to them? Because, to a lot of people, those are scenes of extreme fantasy. Of course such violence does take place in the real world, but must people who watch those movies have not seen such atrocities first-hand, and they do not affect their everyday lives. Something like this, where a young girl is RAPED (yes, raped, which you don't seem to understand) and harmed by an older man who should know better is much more real to many viewers, and strikes closer to home.
And before you make the inevitable comments about how it wasn't rape, I'd like to stop you right now. You have previously used the dictionary definition of "consensual" to explain that what he did wasn't rape, which is about as useful as pulling out the dictionary to show that "fag" means cigarette and therefore cannot possibly be an epithet. You have claimed that, because she didn't explicitly say "No" and told him not to go, he didn't rape her, which clearly shows that you've never dealt with a situation like this in your life. She's thirteen years old, and the movie goes to great lengths to show the depths of her inexperience: she is A CHILD. She is not aware what is happening to her, and even if she was, saying no is much more difficult than you seem to get. That would be particularly so in her case, where she has been told to always obey adults--if she says no, like she wants to, the consequences will be extreme. Even then, she tries to communicate to him to stop, and that he is hurting her. He doesn't listen. THAT is what is horrifying: a young girl who has no idea what is happening is raped by an older man, who should know better, and who hurts her in the process. The fact that you brush it off so flippantly and say that someone is naive for finding the rape of a child disturbing says much more about you than it does about them.
Bravo, malximon bravo.
Death Is The Road To awe...
As long as man is more then one person there will be different sides to every debate. Some will say this, some will say that... And a small part will go just in between.
I for one must say that this movie told me alot about people and how they act in a strange situation as this was. You cant put a lid on it nor tell that all people is like this, things like this happens (and worse) in the world I know that for a fact.
Just a final note! All men aren't bad, not all women are good eighter... We're all screwed in some way, shaped from our environment.
If anyone got angry from what I just wrote I guess you just want to find someone to argue with... Conflict!
Thank you so much for that comment, malximon.
Of course I've watched many violent films with numerous disturbing scenes, but jeez, forgive me if watching a 13 year old getting raped horrifies me... I can't believe some people!
This is my response to malximon;
“Yes, those things show up on television and in movies a lot. Do you know why people don't react very strongly to them? Because, to a lot of people, those are scenes of extreme fantasy. Of course such violence does take place in the real world, but most people who watch those movies have not seen such atrocities first-hand, and they do not affect their everyday lives.”
You are not giving a lot of respect or consideration “malximon” to the millions of people around the world who have been or who are members of a military, law enforcement or medical agency and have seen “action”. You are not giving a lot or respect or consideration to the millions of people around the world who have experienced or who have been victims of violent crime or catastrophic injury. (If you don’t think many people have witnessed or been victimized by extreme violence or catastrophic injury just visit any hospital anywhere.)
Do you think to them horrific injury and pain are only identified as things they might see in “scenes of extreme fantasy”? Do you think those people “have not seen such atrocities first-hand, and they do not affect their everyday lives”? Try telling that to someone in Iraq or Afghanistan, or a police officer or ambulance worker, or a victim of a terrible car accident or fire or violent crime . . . etc., etc.
“It was the fact that an older man forcibly penetrated a young girl, causing her immense pain (and yes, we KNOW that it did, because she said so during the encounter, twice; if you were paying attention, you would have noticed that) was, yes, extremely horrifying.”
Do you think any of those people I specified previously would say that Jasira suffered “immense pain” during her first sexual encounter with Vuoso as compared to what they have had to experience or witness first hand? Try asking someone who has just been in a terrible car accident or fire. I don’t remember Jasira needing an ambulance or post traumatic medical attention? I don’t remember Jasira suffering permanent or long term injury? I don’t even remember her needing an aspirin? Do you? (I don’t know, maybe I wasn’t paying attention!)
Do you think any real extreme violence witnesses or victims would say what happened to Jasira was the most “horrifying thing they have ever seen”? Try asking that to the little girl in Latin America who has just seen her parents raped, tortured and murdered by the local drug lord. Or why don’t you ask one of the little boys in Africa that just got their arms chopped off because they did not support the right political group. That’s right “malximon” these things happen every day in the real world to real people. But I guess you were not aware of this.
More people have witnessed and been victims of extreme violence and catastrophic injury than have witnessed or been victims of sexual molestation. And their injuries --- mental, emotional and physical --- are more severe than those suffered by victims of sexual abuse. If you do not know this you are ignorant and naïve. (In case you didn’t realize, ignorant is another word for stupid.)
“And before you make the inevitable comments about how it wasn't rape, I'd like to stop you right now. You have previously used the dictionary definition of "consensual" to explain that what he did wasn't rape, which is about as useful as pulling out the dictionary to show that "fag" means cigarette and therefore cannot possibly be an epithet.”
You can call it anything you want to in your “own mind” but in the “real world” no medical, legal or law enforcement manual is going to classify what happened to Jasira as rape. Rape is defined as non-consensual. Jasira consented and voluntarily participated. The first sexual encounter with Vuoso would be classified as sexual molestation and the second would be classified as statutory rape --- consensual sex with a minor. These portrayed acts are only criminal because Jasira was a minor. If Jasira was OVER eighteen they would NOT be criminal. They certainly would not be considered rape. Ask any criminal lawyer, police officer or mental health professional. Those are the facts.
“The fact that you brush it off so flippantly and say that someone is naive for finding the rape of a child disturbing says much more about you than it does about them.”
That statement would apply to you and your extreme lack of sympathy, empathy and ignorance of people who have suffered more horrific experiences than some sort of sexual misconduct. And --- you certainly do not seem to have any respect or appreciation for, or even awareness of, the people who risk their lives and limbs everyday to protect your life and rights, and the lives and rights of others.
Everyday women, children and even men are violently raped by someone or someones whose only intention is to brutalize, injure and degrade their victim. Sometimes they even die. This is constantly reported in the news and portrayed dramatically in television and movies. How could anyone not be aware of this? In light of this and all the more serious things that happen to people every day and all the more serious things that are portrayed in the news, and on television, and in movies, how could anyone say that what was shown as having happened to Jasira in the movie Towelhead was one of the most horrifying things they have ever seen? This is the most incredible example of ignorance, stupidity, naivety and lack of awareness I have ever heard.
Oh do shut up, movieliker1. You don't know anything about me, and perhaps there are certain reasons why such a scene - which was, yes, horrifying to me and many other people who I watched it with - resonated with me.
I am of course aware that thousands of horrible things happen everyday in many parts of the world. I do watch the evening news, since you were wondering. The difference is that I don't get to see these things up close and in such detail. What I am saying is that out of the many films I have watched in my lifetime I found this particular RAPE scene between Jasira and Mr. Vuoso very disturbing. Jesus H. Christ. The fact that you went beserk over what is probably a popular opinion shared by most of the audience means that the one who needs therapy is probably you.
I am certainly not naive, stupid or ignorant, and possess quite an amount of self awareness, thank you very much.
Funny how people here are arguing over the definition of 'rape', making it appear as if this would be completely ok if it were only classified as sexual molestation. Both acts against a 13 yr old are EQUALLY DISTURBING.
This is not the most shocking scene I've ever seen but when it comes to children I definitely draw a line as to what is entertainment and of informational value. I don't think this scene needed to be as graphic as it was.
MittenKitten, while you might be an extreme prude, I would take a guess that the movie you are referring to which keeps your legs permanently crossed is 'Irreversible'??
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This is my response to Mitten Kitten;
“I am of course aware that thousands of horrible things happen everyday in many parts of the world. I do watch the evening news, since you were wondering. The difference is that I don't get to see these things up close and in such detail. What I am saying is that out of the many films I have watched in my lifetime I found this particular RAPE scene between Jasira and Mr. Vuoso very disturbing.”
Those three statements don’t even make any sense!
How can you watch the news and many films and not get to see those other horrible things up close and in detail? What news and films do you watch? Many “more horrible” things are shown regularly on television and in movies and in “more graphic detail” than what was shown in the movie Towelhead. If you watch television and movies regularly you would know this.
Either you DON’T watch television and movies regularly or, for some reason, the more horrible things that are shown do NOT AFFECT you. Either way you are either tremendously ignorant or extremely lacking in compassion.
In your post you show NO empathy or sympathy for people who are victims of “more” terrible events that happen “more often” than teenage molestation and that are “more” physically, emotionally and psychologically damaging than what was portrayed as having happened to Jasira in the movie Towelhead.
I don’t know, maybe you were a victim of child molestation or teenage molestation. Well, I would think that if you were, you would have “more" compassion, empathy and sympathy for those who have suffered “more horrible” events than teenage molestation.
“I am certainly not naive, stupid or ignorant, and possess quite an amount of self awareness, thank you very much.”
Well there has to be “some reason” why you have no compassion, empathy and sympathy for those who have suffered more awful events than Jasira did. You actually do not know anyone who has suffered a more terrible experience than Jasira? --- Really? --- Sounds awfully naïve to me!
(Once again Mitten Kitten, you really need to get out more, go visit a hospital, make some friends! --- live life.)
Why is it that, as you say, what was depicted as having happened to Jasira in the movie Towelhead more horrible for you to watch than someone getting shot, or stabbed, or killed? These actions are depicted in graphic detail frequently on television and in movies. I would think that anyone getting shot, stabbed, or killed would trade places with Jasira in a heartbeat. Would you rather be shot, stabbed, or killed instead of being a victim of teenage molestation? ---Really? . . . (Are you beginning to see how incredibly ridiculous you original post was?)
THE POINT IS more horrible things happen everyday to people and more terrible things are shown on television and in movies in graphic detail. An intelligent and informed person puts things in context. An emotionally and psychologically mature person has compassion, empathy and sympathy for those who have suffered more horrible events than teenage molestation.
Relative to other “bad things” that happen “more often”, what happened to Jasira was not that bad. So she got a surprise, abrupt and somewhat rough lesson as to what can happen when you flirt with men. BIG DEAL!!! Routinely on television and in movies people get violently raped by an attacker whose only intention is to injure and degrade their victim. If you watch television and movies regularly you would have seen this many times. Is sex between a thirteen year-old and a forty year-old more horrifying to you than a violent rape where the victim is left for dead? --- Sounds awfully stupid to me --- (no relative context there).
No intelligent, mature person would describe the sexual encounters between Jasira and Mr. Vuoso as one of the most horrifying scenes they have watched.
“The fact that you went beserk over what is probably a popular opinion shared by most of the audience means that the one who needs therapy is probably you.”
I have watched this movie (I own it) with many people (all adults) and NO ONE said that the sex scenes between Jasira and Mr. Vuoso were most horrifying.
The reason I went “berserk” was because I am INCREDULOUS over your EXTREME naivety, ignorance, and lack of awareness and compassion. You should ashamed of yourself. (By the way, you misspelled berserk.)
Really, Mitten Kitten, how old are you? If you are under fifteen I can understand your lack of maturity and awareness. But if you are over fifteen, you should really be embarrassed.
Who are you to judge what people should and shouldn't find upsetting? "The Happening" freaked me out WAY more than "Feast" even though "Feast" was several orders of magnitude gorier and would be the same amount more terrifying than the events of "The Happening."
The scene in this film WAS disturbing for its own reasons. The scenes you talk about, while probably gorier and louder and generally more obnoxious, are not necessarily more disturbing. You seem to think that the ONLY factor in how disturbing something is should be how much noise it makes. THAT is what I find naive and ignorant.
movieliker1:
I think you've actually proven Mitten Kitten's point. We hear about these horrible things everyday on the news. We see violent acts in the movies and television all the time, and we're used to it. I've seen hundreds of acts of violence in film & TV, but this is the first time I've seen a young girl violated this way. Had she been shot, I don't think anybody would be saying they had to turn off the movie.
This is my response to filmdiva79;
I would agree with everything you said except your first statement.
I would rephrase it as “Mitten Kitten has proven my point”.
She is ignorant, naïve and emotionally retarded. She has no emotional reaction to more horrifying occurrences and a severe emotional response to a less horrifying event.
You are probably correct. She has seen and heard of more horrifying events before and she is desensitized to them. But she apparently has no personal experience with any event that is more horrifying than what was portrayed as having happened to Jasira in this movie, but more incredible than that, she admits she cannot relate to them --- no empathy or sympathy. This is an example of extreme ignorance and selfishness. Most children will feel for someone who has suffered some horrible consequence even if they have no personal experience. They can empathize emotionally. They can at least imagine what it might have been like. But not Mitten Kitten. Believe it or not, this is the definition of a psychopath or sociopath, (depending on whether it is a result of genetics or conditioning) --- a personality disorder whose hallmark is a lack of empathy. She may not be a psychopath or sociopath, but something is definitely wrong with her.
Through all of your arguments, movieliker1, you have made one thing extremely clear.
As someone who has, and knows many who have, experienced the things you discuss here (both those that you deem yourself worthy to dub as "more" and "less" horrifying), I can say this without a shadow of a doubt:
You know nothing.
Good day sir.
do you feel any compassion for a 13 year old girl being molested against her will by a 40 year old man? i mean, you're the king of empathy right? douchebag.
shareI just cannot believe you, sir. He molested her. He touched her. She didn't want him too. It caused her pain. SHE'S A CHILD. Why is this not registering with you?
No canned cheese or g-strings? How am I supposed to celebrate New Years?
This is my response to PearleeJ;
It registers with me.
I just don’t think this was the MOST HORRIFYING scene I have watched.
Was this the MOST HORRIFYING scene you have ever watched?
wow, movieliker1. either obvious troll is obvious, or you're really not getting it. watching this movie, the viewer begins to empathize with jasira - and then she is violated. the viewer is supposed to be horrified, although i suppose YMMV. i don't think anyone asserted or implied that this is the most horrifying thing that you, personally, have ever seen. sheesh.
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You need to pay attention "epirus-pyrrhus". The OP said this was "One of the most horrifying scenes I've watched". It is actually the title of the thread.
WTF is up with all of these busy body *beep* muscle's that are saying BS like "all men are disgusting pigs" and "the consensual fingering of a 13 year old if worse than a child being burned alive." You people are absolutely insane, and I am totally convinced that you have some serious psychological issues. If you really hate men that much, then your feelings must be greatly influenced by something deep and personal, maybe you were raped, or maybe you are simply a narcissist that was told how "special" they are all their life and actually believes it. All I know is that you are one crazy ass bitch, and you show off exactly what is wrong with most American women.
Like most women, you get all emotionally wrapped up in your own little world, so you see yourself as being different in a better way from others, and this is usually all subconscious. It really shows off with how you can vilify an entire gender while putting yours on a pedestal. I for one know for a fact that women can be just disgusting, manipulative, violent, and immoral as men, if not more no in the right situation (women are well knows as being far more immoral, unethical, and straight up manipulative than men when it comes to legal situations) and that is only one example. I don't care to name more because I don't hate women, I just hate loudmouth *beep* that feel as if the entire world revolves around them.
Movieliker,
please stop you lengthy, pompous, self-righteous responses, because you're only making yourself look more foolish with each one. Despite your pretense at omniscience, you haven't got a clue about the law, or what you're talking about entirely, and before you contradict me, my husband retired from a 30 year law enforcement career, he served and protected on the municipal, state and federal level, my dad is a retired attorney, and my first cousin is a magistrate judge.
Besides that, who appointed you the gauge of what level of horror is appropriate for a crime? Nobody can measure the level of terror experienced by any victim of crime, how can you possibly measure the appropriate level of horror of a person viewing it? There is no comparison between real atrocity and a fictionalized depiction, but here on IMDB we are discussing fictionalized depictions for the most part, not real atrocities.
This is all supposition anyway, as we don't know what happens to Jazira afterward. You are presuming she is fine afterward, when for all we know between her parent's narcissism, selfishness & indifference, her father's humiliating mental & physical abuse, her neighbor's sexual abuse, racial bullying at school, she later develops dissociative identity disorder and becomes a split personality. Factors like what she experienced are contributing factors to DID.
What happened in this film absolutely constituted rape, by the statutes of any level of government, and especially the statutes of the state of Texas, where this film took place. The sad thing for little girls innocently exploring their sexuality, is that people like you are too ignorant or misinformed to recognize it, to distinguish between consensual teenage sex and an adult raping a child, or to hold accountable those predatory adults who hasten their victim's confrontation with the harsh realities of criminal sexual assault.
"You can call it anything you want to in your “own mind” but in the “real world” no medical, legal or law enforcement manual is going to classify what happened to Jasira as rape. Rape is defined as non-consensual."
This was not consensual sex with a minor, because legally, the minor does not have the right to consent and the other party wasn't a minor. Hello? In Texas, where the film takes place, the age of consent is 17 years old. It is stated right here on IMDB in the goofs section of this film's page. That's the law, and that's what makes your position so ridiculous. Besides that, she didn't consent. He didn't ask her the first time, he simply grabbed her and assaulted her. The second time she was cajoled into it, by being told she'd be sexy if she did, after he primed the pump (pun intended) by providing her with a sexually explicit magazine. She states this clearly to Melina, later in the film. "I didn't really want to, but I did, because I felt sorry for him." She felt sorry for him because he had hoodwinked her into believing that he was shipping out to Iraq the next day. He manipulated a child into giving consent when she didn't want to & when it wasn't hers to give. He's the adult he is in a superior position of knowledge & power, that's why he's supposed to know better.
"Jasira consented and voluntarily participated. The first sexual encounter with Vuoso would be classified as sexual molestation and the second would be classified as statutory rape --- consensual sex with a minor. These portrayed acts are only criminal because Jasira was a minor. If Jasira was OVER eighteen they would NOT be criminal. They certainly would not be considered rape. Ask any criminal lawyer, police officer or mental health professional. Those are the facts."
We don't have to ask anybody, because you simply don't make sense. The laws clearly state that "consensual sex with a minor" cannot exist, because a minor cannot consent. Memorize it, study it, imprint that on your brain, and perhaps one day it'll stick.
According to you, you own this film. Then you should watch it again because obviously you have selective memory, or are legally blind. Since when is letting an adult neighbor in your parent's home consenting to sex with him? Since when is it consensual when a grown man, twice your size, grabs you from behind and shoves his finger inside your vagina, despite your verbal protests. Sexual molestation and rape are not mutually exclusive. Involuntary vaginal penetration with a penis, finger, or other object is rape, smartass! What country or planet do you live in or on? WATCH IT AGAIN! You are seeing only what you want to see. Even Mr. Vuoso had the sense to be appalled at what he has done immediately afterward.
I'm not gonna comment on the rest of the stuff etc. I just wanted to say my 2 cents about one part of your post.
"We don't have to ask anybody, because you simply don't make sense. The laws clearly state that "consensual sex with a minor" cannot exist, because a minor cannot consent. Memorize it, study it, imprint that on your brain, and perhaps one day it'll stick. "
I completely disagree with that and think that IT doesn't make sense because of the simple fact that the age of consent throughout the US let alone the world varies. therefore you can't tell me that a 14 year old has the mental capacity to consent in China but 15 or 16 year old in the United States can't just cause "it's the law".??? Even in the US the age of consent varies throughout different states so how can a child/teen who is younger in the South be capable of consent by law simply because of where they live but another person of the same age and even older can't consent because of where they live.
That just doesn't make any sense.
BTW I'm not sure where you live. If it's in the US or not so I don't know if the law is the same for you. Maybe the age of consent in the same everywhere where you live. I did notice that you mentioned your cousin being a magistrate so I'm guessing you're not in the US because magistrates aren't really all that common etc. in the US anymore.
The law is the law. No one said the age of consent in China was "okay." In fact, the low age of consent in Asia (not necessariy China) is part of the reason they're having trouble with sex tourism--grown men (many westerners) going to Asia to have sex with 14-yr-old girls--young and vulnerable. I do think 16, 17 and even 18 are respectable 'ages' to give consent.
I completely disagree with that and think that IT doesn't make sense because of the simple fact that the age of consent throughout the US let alone the world varies. therefore you can't tell me that a 14 year old has the mental capacity to consent in China but 15 or 16 year old in the United States can't just cause "it's the law".??? Even in the US the age of consent varies throughout different states so how can a child/teen who is younger in the South be capable of consent by law simply because of where they live but another person of the same age and even older can't consent because of where they live.
This is my response to "seanymphette";
"Besides that, who appointed you the gauge of what level of horror is appropriate for a crime? Nobody can measure the level of terror experienced by any victim of crime, how can you possibly measure the appropriate level of horror of a person viewing it?"
If you think that watching a child being burned alive is less horrifying than watching a teenager have sex with an adult, than you have serious issues. Any normal person knows that the more serious the pain and damage is, the more horrifying it is to watch. It is called empathy. If you don't have it, maybe you need to be committed.
"There is no comparison between real atrocity and a fictionalized depiction, but here on IMDB we are discussing fictionalized depictions for the most part, not real atrocities."
You, in your hysteria, are not paying attention. We are talking about portrayed scenes in the media.
"This is all supposition anyway, as we don't know what happens to Jazira afterward. You are presuming she is fine afterward, when for all we know between her parent's narcissism, selfishness & indifference, her father's humiliating mental & physical abuse, her neighbor's sexual abuse, racial bullying at school, she later develops dissociative identity disorder and becomes a split personality. Factors like what she experienced are contributing factors to DID."
Many teenagers have sex with adults. They don't all end up developing "dissociative identity disorder" and become a split personality. Are you crazy?
"What happened in this film absolutely constituted rape, by the statutes of any level of government, and especially the statutes of the state of Texas, where this film took place. The sad thing for little girls innocently exploring their sexuality, is that people like you are too ignorant or misinformed to recognize it, to distinguish between consensual teenage sex and an adult raping a child, or to hold accountable those predatory adults who hasten their victim's confrontation with the harsh realities of criminal sexual assault."
You are not selling that BS to anyone. Everybody knows the difference between consensual sex and rape.
"This was not consensual sex with a minor, because legally, the minor does not have the right to consent and the other party wasn't a minor. Hello? In Texas, where the film takes place, the age of consent is 17 years old. It is stated right here on IMDB in the goofs section of this film's page. That's the law, and that's what makes your position so ridiculous. Besides that, she didn't consent. He didn't ask her the first time, he simply grabbed her and assaulted her. The second time she was cajoled into it, by being told she'd be sexy if she did, after he primed the pump (pun intended) by providing her with a sexually explicit magazine. She states this clearly to Melina, later in the film. "I didn't really want to, but I did, because I felt sorry for him." She felt sorry for him because he had hoodwinked her into believing that he was shipping out to Iraq the next day. He manipulated a child into giving consent when she didn't want to & when it wasn't hers to give. He's the adult he is in a superior position of knowledge & power, that's why he's supposed to know better."
Everybody knows that he manipulated her. If Jazira was an adult, it would have been legal consensual sex. He did not force her to have sex and she never objected. The only reason it was illegal was because she was underage.
"According to you, you own this film. Then you should watch it again because obviously you have selective memory, or are legally blind. Since when is letting an adult neighbor in your parent's home consenting to sex with him? Since when is it consensual when a grown man, twice your size, grabs you from behind and shoves his finger inside your vagina, despite your verbal protests. Sexual molestation and rape are not mutually exclusive. Involuntary vaginal penetration with a penis, finger, or other object is rape, smartass! What country or planet do you live in or on? WATCH IT AGAIN! You are seeing only what you want to see. Even Mr. Vuoso had the sense to be appalled at what he has done immediately afterward."
She never protested. She just said, "Ow, you're hurting me". Do you know how many times people get "hurt" during sex? Not injured - hurt. As in, "I am experiencing pain".
And all girls and women bleed the first time. And many experience pain. So, do you want to arrest all males who have sex with virgins?
Do you know how ridiculous you sound?
Thank you so much, you clarified that brilliantly. So many have become desensitized to the sexualization of children. Some even glamorize it, and justify criminal behavior in the adult because it absolutely DOES appeal to their basest fantasies. How morally bereft have we become when we view what is clearly rape, and don't see it as such?
shareWhy thank you. I just couldn't get my mind past the idiocy and callousness.
Oh, hadn't you heard? The emotionally violated and distressed child act is clearly just a come-on.
...I feel so dirty even typing that.
I agree. She is a child. She is at the beginning of puberty. This is at a very awkward stage of life for both sexes. The hormones have started to flow. Just because the child is starting to look like an adult does not mean they can process
choices and consequences in a mature way. The child may be smart but not wise. She lacks the wisdom to make a responsible choice. The older adult who summits to his desire and reckless immature emotions is not only breaking the laws of our land, but he is breaking the laws, morals and values of civilizations. This man should pay the highest price for what he did. He raped a child, who by definition, is not capable of making this decision. His actions will have a Horrific effect on her life. Many women spend their entire life trying to deal with and process a life changing event such as this one.
I thought the movie did an excellent job of displaying life situations, which occur far too often in our society. The rape, arrogance, ignorance, narcissism, racism, hatred, bullying, blasphemy all there for all to see and hopefully process in a mature and wise way.
I thought it was a good film. It is a film which makes you think. However, I felt it was excellent with the problem side of "life" but did not have much to say about the solution to these problems. Society has been trying to deal with these problems for centuries. Obviously, as a society, we continue to fall short of the mark.
The solutions seem out of societies reach. The 40 to 50 year experiment has failed. I would suspect the answers lie in the realm of a high power yet to be discovered. Who knows?
i actually got hard watching that scene.
shareI was uncomfortable watching that movie simply because when I had consensual sex the first time...it HURT! Many women experience different things....mine hurt like hell, rumor has it it hurts for most women the first couple of times. So I could only imagine that it would hurt a whole lot more if it was forced! So I had some kind of common ground with the girl's experience...I could relate.
Just like if a guy was kicked in the balls or had it cut-off. A man may not have had their balls assaulted like that before, but they could relate. Just like fingers getting forcibly shoved in a womans genitals is not pleasant. I am a woman and it made me cringe.
I also understand that the laws of other countries differ. But I grew up in the US and I (based on my life experiences and upbringing) believe that its wrong for a 36 year old man to take advantage of a 13 year old girl. Now if I grew up elsewhere I would probably think differently, but I didn't.
So no one has the authority to call someone prude and twisted for feeling uncomfortable about this movie if thats the way they feel.
Also just because the rape was on a lower level than other rape crimes...doesn't mean it wasn't a crime. She still suffered damage.
@ movie1 guy...forgot your username: Would you think what Mr. Vuoso did was ok if it was your 13 daughter?
@mrlundo Its best if you keep that comment to your self. No one thinks thats funny.
http://www.whyiwatch.com/
No, it is clearly wrong and illegal. No one is debating that. No one here has said that it was wrong for the adult neighbor to be arrested in the movie.
I think it is wrong and it should be illegal. It is just not "One of the most horrifying scenes I've watched". As the OP stated it was for her.
It was a disturbing scene, but there were a lot of disturbing scenes in this film, particularly when he had her undress for him and then he raped her (don't call this consensual; it wasn't and she made that clear later in the film). Also her father was abusive physically and verbally. All the men and boys in her life violated her, from calling her towelhead, the boyfriend's taking advantage (even though that was consensual). She seemed so confused and wanted to please people. I never saw or read Lolita, but that was all I could compare this to. The racism in the film was also sickening.
shareI agree with the OP. I didn't cross my legs or walk around, but I was disgusted and appalled. I'm probably not in the majority on this, but I found the whole film a bit unsettling. I know the actress was not really 13, but I don't want to see a tween (her character) bringing herself to orgasm. Sure, it happens but it is one of those things .....we don't need to see on film. It brings me back to that old saying: one man's art is another man's porn. There a lot of ways that the masturbation (or her wiggling herself around to an orgasm) could have been simply implicated in the film only and not have taken anything away from it.
I'm just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
It doesn't need to be on film, no. Its just shock material hiding under the guise of being something more ostentatious.
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