Stop refering to him as her


I wish these PC groups would stop refering to him as a girl. He is biologically a boy so he should be refered to as one. You don't here people calling Michael Jackson 'white', though he may change his color, he is still a black man.

And I wish gays would stop comparing their troubles with African Americans during the Civil Rights movement. Emmitt Till was a young black boy of 14 who was brutally murdered for allegedly whistling at a white woman. He was beaten, shot to death, and had one eye gouged out and thrown in the river. The men who killed him were tried and went scot free. At least the men who killed this trangendered boy were brought to justice and served prison terms.


As far as the 'gay panic' gay activists are pissed about, what's the difference between that and pleading temporary insanity? Courts still allow for the charged to use temporary insanity, why not gay panic?I'm not condoning the murder of this trangendered boy, but people don't understand the real fear and craziness straight men feel when they find out the person they are having relations with is another male. That is serious stuff.

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Sorry Toking, you can write all those passionate words, but let's be real....a transvestite/transsexual/trangendered male will NEVER be considered a woman. No matter how beautiful he is, how 'feminine' he acts---he will never be a Woman.

Most people in this world and this country feel the way I do.

Don't ever compare the plight of Blacks and other people of color to those of the Transexual. Woo, that's a grave insult. Any gay rights activists who does needs to be beaten for claiming that. I can't change the color of my skin and my people were discriminated for years for who they are. Plus no where in the Bible does it state a certain racial group is inferior as contrary to what the racist slaveowners claimed. One is an abomination, guess which one that is?

Transsexuals are discriminated for what they do. They choose to act as women which they are not. You can change what you do, you can't change who you are.

Man's laws can change in these peoples' favor, but hey, you can't break nature's laws.

Oh well

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Who cares what trashclub thinks she is nothing but white trash its people like her that needs to die sometimes soon i hope! It will make the world more peaceful and gwen will always be a woman its not how bitches like you that defines them its how they defines themselves. I bet your one ugly woman anyway. If you were to insult any people who are different i will make sure to deal with you because i have friends who are glbt and i always have there backs. So hopefully miss *beep* piece of trash commit suicide! I hope i will get the last laugh when you get your ass jumped. If you want to hate go ahead but your nothing special.


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I have to say this was quite a heated disagreement, I usually never reapply to these things but I saw this movie the other night and I did not realize it was a true story-I do follow the bible and believe in what it says - I do not think this boy deserved to die because I feel it is not up to us as humans to decide who lives or die, however this boy lied to people and had relations with another man pretending to be a girl--even though this man was not the one who committed the murder he underwent i think one of the biggest deceptions there is. I know if I found out that the person i was seeing was the same sex as me and lied to me I would be pissed off. Think about that, he is a straight man and was having almost intimate relations with another man he did not choose to make out with other men, he wasn't given a choice. I think if you choose to persue being transgender thats fine i will not judge you that is not my place (we will all be judged one day)but if this is so "normal" or maybe the right way to say this normal for the transgender why do they lie about it, I mean didn't the movie Boys dont cry have the same story line--if you want people to accept you for who you truely are why lie about it and deceive people.

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I have never understood prejudice and the hate that it evokes. I am a 53 yo female and have only recently come out..I am a lesbian. I have a close friend that is transgendered, her life has been a pure hell. I have known that I was lesbian my entire life, but was too weak to come out to those I loved. I felt I was an embarassment to them, so I lived my entire life as a straight female, married, had a child, did all the things a straight woman was supposed to do. What I received in return for this deception was a life of severe depression, total unhappiness, pure agony. I came out a year ago and have not been accepted by my friends, family, and associates. This whole process has been very painful to me, but I would not undo it for anything, I can finally find peace within myself and that liberates my tortured soul. Maybe one day my family will accept me for who I am, not what they perceive me to be. I am very fortunate that my 23 year old son has been very accepting and has totally given me his support. When I told him, his words were so comforting.."Mom, it is about time for you to find happiness. You need to quit living your life for others and start living it for yourself. The only thing I want for you is for you to be happy." If all society could have the outlook on life and treat others with such compassion, the world would be a much nicer place to live. We could have acceptance of all, stop the ridicule and hate toward people that may be "different", be it in religion, race, sexual preference, or sexual identity. Hating someone because they are different than you are, is totally a pity. Some of the posts on here show pure ignorance, but I do have to agree with many that this ignorance began in their homes and what they were taught as they were growing up. Hate begets hate, Intolerance begets Intolerance. Please, people, accept and love your brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors, for who they are, not for what you perceive them to be. Gwen Arujo would still be alive today, if all society would learn this very important life lesson.

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There is nothing but hatred on this thread. I was about to defend Gwen’s right to be called a female if that is what she wanted, yet as I read down the thread I find racism and more hatred. I have reported this to IMDB in time hopefully this entire thread will be deleted.

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Trashclub you really think I'm scared of you??? HELL NO I'm not i have been in lots of fights but why do you think I'm the one who walks out victorious its because i can fight not like those haters who can't even throw a damn punch. I'm a fashion Designer and a makeup artist who has a black belt in Kung-Fu and karate since i started at 6 years old. I'm a natural born leader since my Chinese zodiac is a dragon and it does reflect me as a person and I'm trying to do my best to protect those that need it most. I'm also a brave person who is always ready for what's ahead and if your asking to fight well if want to I'll be waiting and i might be busy with my job and i live in NYC so maybe i don't need to waste my time fighting you i bet you can't even throw a punch either. I know fighting is wrong but sometimes there is a reason to fight and hopefully the loser learn there lesson and respect others. By the way I'm a female and I'm not a whore or a slut like how your mother raised you to be.



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LMAO at the power I have over y'all


You people are lame.

LOLLOLOLOLOLOL

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STFU, cclub.

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Who *beep* cares about the sex of the person, that does not reflect what is inside.
Ever heard of a little thing called gender dysphoria?

Transgendered woman! If you're Male-to-Female you are a transgendered woman!
If you say "he'll" never be a woman - you sound even stupider than I originally thought, and I think you'll find yourself in deep *beep* with the transgender community. If you're not transgender you know nothing, just forget it all. Go sulk.

What is this nonsense of gays comparing their situation to African Americans? I've never heard them.
Yet, they have good reason to, discrimination is discrimination.
I am sick and tired of you people. Gender variance is NOT THE SAME as sexual Orientation - Get.it.in.your.thick.skull.
Are you prejudiced? Yes. Are you part-taking in Discrimination? Yes.
Anyone getting hurt is a crime. It's really difficult in this world to see this as a hate crime because they're all stuck up their own arses.
Ms Guerrero was told that she should pardon these men in the case of society being rough. It was a long struggle to get juctice.

Praise, please you must be another time waster with a "joke" (it's not funny) stuck up your arse.
Stop disturbing the peace.

"Dime si ella es la reina, Y la dueña de todo mi amor"

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Toking, why are you so sensitive and angry?

Be proud to be whatever you want to be, I'm not stopping you, boo.

You act as if I'm barring you from your behavior. Is this a dictatorship? NO!

But I can speak on my opinions on this board and if you don't like it, go stick it up a dark hole. America is great isn't it?

One thing for sure, whatever you think you are, you are not a woman. You may feel like one, but you are not. Okay?


I hope you trangendered people notify your lovers of your gender, especially you trangendered "females".

Otherwise, you are victims of your own deceit

I don't have a problem with homosexuals, only with transgendered people who choose to deceit the opposite sex.



Interesting how trangendered people don't want their conditions to be labeled a mental illness when clearly it was labeled that at one point.

But due to the politically correctness of the ultra sensitive gay and 'transgendered' activists, the American Psychiatric Association declassified it as a mental illness

Political correctness gone awry.....

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Trashclub do you even have a life??? Really it looks like your just a hateful person and I bet you don't have a job or your some immature *beep* Grow up seriously! If I'm not mistaken in the bible i think it said somewhere that man was the first to be created and when god made another man god changed it to a girl. If you lived around my state your ass would be towed up by now believe me because i think its my job to teach haters like you a lesson. So what if trans woman can't give birth or have their periods. I'm a woman and i wish i can have surgery to get rid of my period but I have to live with what i have. Trans woman can get there period or give birth if science can go a long way but the technology we have now isn't the best. All I can say to you trash club is your a hater and an immature kid learn some respect and people are free to live and identify as what they want. If you don't like it have someone murder you or commit suicide and noone will miss you and when you turn up dead all of these respectful people will get the last laugh. I know I will! I have a life and a dream just like Gwen and its best for all of us to support her and her family and trashclub is making tons of enemies and hopefully these enemies will get you one day.


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is name calling the only thing you people know how to do?



my goodness.




i have a strong opinion myself on this subject matter.
but considering that none of you know how to have a civilized conversation i might as well keep my opinion to myself.

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I just caught this movie on Lifetime, and it was quite an interesting albeit sad tale. I'm a fan of movies that question black and white and similar issues and i think Gwen's story could teach everyone something important about ourselves in contemporary society. Personally, I come from a culture that has an accepted third gender (usually men who dress as women) and these people are accepted as a part of everyday life. So when i hear about transgender issues I'm not shocked or overwhelmed because I've been exposed to this aspect of gender/sexual identity for a long time. Unfortunately things are very different in America, thereby making it much harder for Gwen. This level of secrecy and shame surrounding her identity was what led to those boys murdering her. Had society been more open and less retentive about sexual identity, Gwen would still be with us. I guess that's beside the fact and Gwen knew as a pre-op transgendered person that she was treading on thin ice, I just hope that someday things will change.

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Those of us who are accepting and tolerant WILL continue to refer to her as a SHE, as far as I'm concerned that's what she is. She has a girl's brain and in a civilized culture we refer to ppl based on their brain and how they present themselves.

That's what accepting a trans person is all about, accepting them as the gender they were born on the inside.

And I think as time goes on more and more ppl will feel this way.

Refer to ppl as how they present themselves.

Just because we lose today's battle doesn't mean we've lost tommorow's war.

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Of course Gwen Arujo was a woman. It's just silly to pretend otherwise. It is even more silly to be so hateful about how someone else lives their life.

Look at this discussion: on the one side people who defend a murdered girl's right to self identification and on the other side people who think the equipment between your legs at birth is a more important discussion than the fact that four people felt they had the right to kill someone.

If you can't see who the good guys are here, you are one sick puppy.

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Right on 115% !!


I'm so glad things are starting to change!

I know a lot of ppl say "Well HE had male parts so HE is still a BOY, no matter how HE feels on the inside."

But this was of thinking is starting to be questioned and challenged since many ppl are starting to change how they define a man and a woman, and what makes a man a man and a woman a woman, many ppl are starting to feel that what makes a woman a woman and a man a man goes FAR beyond just physical sexual anatomy.

Many are starting to think that your brain is somewhat important in what makes a woman a woman ~or a man a man~, if not JUST as important as what's between one's legs. And that if one has a female brain they are a WOMAN, reguardless of their physcial anatomy.

New definitions are suggesting that "man" and "woman refer to what's between your EARS, where as "male" and "female" refer to what's between your LEGS. A trans woman may not be 100% female but she CAN be 100% WOMAN, by those definitions, and even somewhat female since her brain is female and hell, every male as an X chromosome anyway, some even have a XX.

So by those new, reconsidered definitions, of what makes a woman a woman, Gwen WAS a woman, since she had a female brain.

Ppl for YEARS have said things like, "There are a LOT more differences between a man and a woman than just physical anatomy!" And they have always said "Men and women are just DIFFERENT, they THINK differently!" But when it comes to us trans ppl, they are like "The only damn difference between a man and woman is your penis and vagina, if you have a penis, you're a dude, end of story!" That is soooo contradictory!

Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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Some people can't flow with ambiguity. They HAVE to have everything make some kind of sense (usually a narrow rule-laden sense) for themselves and are intolerant of anyone who contradicts that. If it makes them uncomfortable, the person they perceive as causing it (which in reality is themselves causing it) MUST be punished or rejected in some way. Personally, I think for a transgendered person, whichever they wish to be referred to--he or she is their choice and no one else's. They are the ones that truly know themselves and for those who think it's their job to define what other people are, you are living in a delusion. No matter what picture you paint of others, you ultimately have no control over the truth of who they are. You have no means to change or mold them into what you want them to be no matter how many times you try to insist on your own opinion and you are basically setting yourselves up for much self-imposed anger and frustration. I kind of think Gwen/Eddie could be alternately referred to as either he or she, depending upon the context at the time.

"The ice is gonna break!" (Johnny--The Dead Zone)

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I just refer to Gwen as GWEN, that is the respecftful thing to do.

If someone who was born with male parts wants to be refered to as and identified a SHE and as a HER, I don't see the problem.

And again it's about deifnitions, that's what get on my nerves when ppl are always like, "HE is a boy and always will be" I say, "WHO SAYS?"

Definitions are not set in stone by the magical definition God. They are subject to change, and modification.

Gwen may have physically been born with male anatomy but in a social, practical everyday sense, she IS a girl and should be viewed as one. And I don't really see the point of calling her "him/her" or "Eddie/Gwen" unless you're trying to be a dick. It is very disrespectful.

A good comparison I can think of, although not perfect is, a TOMATO by the technical, Webster, dictionary/encyclopedia definition is a FRUIT, but in practical, real life application it is generally refered to as and reguarded as a, and used as VEGETABLE; so I have no problem calling a tomato a vegetable even though technically it is defined as a fruit.

Same way with trans ppl, if someone was born with male anatomy abd identify as a female, then they ARE a female, b/c WE say so. WE human being are the ones who give meaning to words.



Pluto is NOT defined as a planet anymore, even though at one time it was. And we are not "living in a DELUSION" for not defining Pluto as a planet now, we simply CHANGED our view of Pluto, and the same can be done for male and female as well as anything else and any other words.
Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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I think if I had known Gwen and she told me she wanted to be referred and treated to as "she" and recognized as a woman, I would have no problem with that. I had no problem while watching the movie as recognizing her as a she. When they attacked her, I saw it as an attack on a woman. When I say you can refer to her and Eddie as either "he" or "she", I'm talking about the circumstances following her murder. When discussing her, you cannot avoid discussing Eddie as well whom you would refer to as "he" when talking about him. I did not mean that you should insist on calling a transgender person who feels that they are female a "he".

"The ice is gonna break!" (Johnny--The Dead Zone)

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Btw, I don't know if anyone knows about this but I read an online article about her saying that she was getting hormone treatments before she died. Is this true or just tabloid lies? Some people on this board are saying she was not.

"The ice is gonna break!" (Johnny--The Dead Zone)

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I'm not sure, I didn't think she was, according to the movie she was not, but again, that's one of those things to me that doesn't really matter either. She was a woman reguardless.

I know some ppl who say "You're not a woman until you get surgery" or "Until you start hormone treatment" And all that is absurd too, for above mentioned reasons.

Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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"I saw it as an attack on a woman"

That is good. It's surprising how many men claim to accept us trans women, then are ready to physically beat our asses down for simply SAYING something out of line to them.


"When discussing her, you cannot avoid discussing Eddie as well"

I can't speak for everyone, but I personally could. I've known several trans women, and their "male status" has never come up with me. The trans women I know it would actually feel WEIRD to refer to them as males or as he, etc..

Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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^^Thanks. Sorry so long to respond. Just too much to do the past couple of days. I just wanted to say to people who call this a "lifestyle choice" (I really hate that expression). It is no such thing. I used to do child care out of my home along with my mother years ago. Did it for about six years. We became sorta close with one famlily. At first, it was just their daughter who was about a year when we started watching her and then when she was five, they had a son. The daughter started kindergarten and we started watching the son as an infant. When he became old enough to make words and sentences, he started insisting that he was a girl. He go around all day long saying he was a girl. He was more attracted to the girl oriented toys than the boy's toys. He love Barbies and his parents ended up buying I don't know how many by the time he was five, he had quite a few. When I asked his parents about his insistence of being a girl, they just said that however he was they would love him. I took him to the Walmart one day and as an experiment, I took him to the boy oriented toy aisle. We sometimes would buy toys for the kids we cared for. I didn't make any suggestions to him as to what to pick out. I didn't try to coerce him into picking anything in particular. I just wanted to see if he would show any interest in anything there. He looked around and picked out a doll, which I guess was supposed to be an action figure but was very similar in size and style of a Barbie doll of some princess from one of the Star Wars movies.

There's no way in hell a toddler can possibly make a "lifestyle choice" about their sexual or gender identity. They don't possess the faculties of an adult to make a decision like that. This little boy was a girl inside and knew it at two or three years. This is what convinces me that it is something physiological that is happening and not a choice of free will.

And my story isn't at all an unusual occurrence:
http://tinyurl.com/kk78jbt

"Thank you for the Dada-ist peptalk. I feel much more abstract now."--Buffy

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Yes it is defintily not a life-style, being vegan is a life style.

Being a girl is no more being a lifestyle to me than a male being a man is a life style to him.

Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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