MovieChat Forums > A Girl Like Me: The Gwen Araujo Story (2006) Discussion > Has anyone read any books on the subject...

Has anyone read any books on the subject?


I don't know how many are out there but I'm interested.

"Thank you for the Dada-ist peptalk. I feel much more abstract now."--Buffy

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True Selves is a fairly good book, though it has some exclusive things in it, it doesn't like to acknowledge that there are GAY trans ppl, in other words trans men who identify as gay men and trans women who identify as lesbian.

I am bisexual now, but used to mainly identify as lesbian and in this book is says: paraphrased: "A transgendered woman would not want to date a woman b/c to her it would seem like lesbian dating" And I'm sitting there thinking, "Uh YEAH, and some trans women prefer it that way!" lol

That's as ridiculious as saying "NO WOMAN would ever want to date another woman"

I don't need someone telling me I HAVE to be attracted to men to qualify as a woman.... I think Ellen Degenrus~sp~ would disagree lol


But aside from that one thing, I'd recommend that book.

I DO love how it explains there difference between sissy boys and trans girls, and tomboyish girls and trans boys.

I guess when I was little ppl thought I was a sissy boy, but I knew I was a girl .

Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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difference between sissy boys and trans girls, and tomboyish girls and trans boys.

How do you explain the difference?

To be even more concise, I'm asking because I often wonder, since I do believe that femininity and masculinity are social conventions and are somewhere between arbitrary and convinient (for men, for the most part, but in general as an arbitrary rule system that helps people feel they're making sense of a chaotic world) about the meaning of "I feel that I'm a woman".

I, for example, was born female and am quite comfortable in my own body (give or take a few societal rules about what I'm supposed to look like) but I don't "feel" that I'm a woman. I have times when my behavior would be considered feminine, others when it would be described more as masculine. Most people I know are like that, they don't really full neatly into either category.

So I'm often left with this bitter thought that maybe, just maybe, if we had a society that wasn't so strict about gender norms maybe those who least match them wouldn't feel they have to change their exteriors to fit their interiors. And wouldn't that be much better?

So if I had a boy who felt he wanted to wear make up and girly clothes, etc., I'd just let him and I'd humor any request he'd have. But I'd be very much against a surgery and I'd try to encourage him to see himself more as gender-free than transgendered. I just... I fear we're harming our own kids by being so uptight about gender that when someone is so outside the expectations, they really don't feel comfortable unless they change their body as well. And I fear it wasn't those people's bodies we should have struggled to change, it was other people's minds.

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"How do you explain the difference?"

Basically a tomboyish girl or a sissy boy does not identify as the opposite sex and are happy in their body even though they may have some attributes, likes, etc... of the opposite sex. They dont' want to be the opposite sex, but just maybe do a lot of the things the opposite sex does.



"I, for example, was born female and am quite comfortable in my own body (give or take a few societal rules about what I'm supposed to look like) but I don't "feel" that I'm a woman."

I would say in some sense you DO feel like you are a woman, just by the fact you say you are comfortable in your female body. There ARE however, agender, ppl who don't identify as either male NOR female and no not want to be associated as either.

I, identify, as a female so I feel I have that right and should be respected as such.

If you don't FEEL like a woman why do you call yourself a female? I'm guessing you'll say, "B/c I AM." Well it's the same for me, I call myself a female b/c I KNOW I am too, despite having been born in the wrong body.

If you feel content if your body then I'd say you feel like a female, if you didn't you'd know it.

But I hear this all time, "What does a woman feel like." It's just funny to me that most ppl 98% of ppl probably, will quickly tell you "Men and women are DIFFERENT in more ways other than just sexually" "Men and women THINK differently", etc... but when it comes to us trans ppl, those same ppl wanna get all semantical and be like, "How do you know how a woman thinks?" "What does it mean to feel like a woman." But yet I'm sure they've had real world conversations where they've made statements like, "Well, women think THIS way..." or "Oh men are just like that!".




"So I'm often left with this bitter thought that maybe, just maybe, if we had a society that wasn't so strict about gender norms maybe those who least match them wouldn't feel they have to change their exteriors to fit their interiors. And wouldn't that be much better"


I don't believe that's true for all ppl, maybe for SOME, but most trans women I know, ME included, want to look in the mirror and see FEMALE, most all the trans ppl I know who transition do it for THEMSELVES.




"So if I had a boy who felt he wanted to wear make up and girly clothes, etc., I'd just let him and I'd humor any request he'd have."


That is good, but would you even refer to him as a SHE, if he wanted you do? And respect his preferred pronouns?

"But I'd be very much against a surgery and I'd try to encourage him to see himself more as gender-free than transgendered."

Why? If he could be happier, it's HIS body, we alter our bodies all the time to get rid of things we see as blemishes and imperfections and we put on things that we see as more appealing to us, are you against coloring your hair, plastic surgery. etc? Plus most ppl who go on to have the surgery go on to live happier more productive lives.

"I just... I fear we're harming our own kids by being so uptight about gender that when someone is so outside the expectations, they really don't feel comfortable unless they change their body as well."


And again I will say.... TYPICALLY ~though there are exceptions~ I do believe men and women are different, in more was besides anatomy. I do believe men and women THINK differently, as do most ppl unless they are talking about us trans ppl then they have to get all annoying technical and ask, "Well how does a woman think?"

So lemme ask you, are you also against ppl being straight, gay, lesbian, etc... IOW just being attracted to men, or women, do you think we should just raise ppl to be pansexual, just be attracted to ANYONE? I mean after all how does anyone know what a straight man thinks like? How does anyone know what a lesbian thinks like? Maybe we should just raise ppl to drop the sexual binary too and not to identify as either straight, guy, lesbian, etc... and just be open to dating anyone.


Bottom like I am happier as a FEMALE, and hell yes I will call myself that even though I'm sure that will get shot down by some idiot, but that is my identity and I claim it now, I am the master of my body.



Like I say there are books to read about this. Like hermaphrodite kids and the parents will remove one organ ~usually the penis~ and raise the child as a girl BUT if they brains was male and they removed the wrong organ the child will grow up "feeling" like a boy. That has happened before. I just wish ppl could respect us and that it's OUR body if we would be happy with it matching out brains, then just respect us for that, without having to get into all these semantic, like the phrase "feel like a girl".

Men and women are different, in more ways than just anatomically.

It just ticks me off when ppl like Dr Phil says that men and women are different and kno one says anything, but If I as a trans woman says that, I am called out, analyzed, psychoanalyzed, asked, "How do you know how a woman thinks".

I like Dr Phil ok but he is inconsistent too, he has said a young child 4 years old could not possibly know if he is trans, and really a girl on the inside, b/c he has no concept of male and female, YET... he says any childs biggest remodel is the same sex parent! That tells me that a small child then has to have some concept of male and female, or not, he would have to THINK like either a male or female. If not why wouldn't a small child just take anyone for their role model, why couldn't a little boy pick his mother to be his role model, but according to Dr Phil that's not possible, he will always pick the father.


And sorry if I come across bitter, but I just hear these same questions over and over.


Create a society in which you would like to live, not knowing what you're going to come into it as.

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