Why take the doctor to a Christian church? And why would the "father" who said he did not know the dead wife, be supportive of a movement that, if in control of Palestine, would never allow the church to exist? I am not sure what we were to learn from this side trip. smugrr.
shareWhatever one thinks of the Palestinian cause and behavior, as a factual matter the Palestinians are not exclusively Islamic.
No doubt the pro-Palestinian Christian (presumably Orthodox) priest's statements are meant to show that there are non-Moslem Palestinians with strong anti-Israeli views. Significant numbers of Palestinians are Christians (e.g., Yasir Arafat's wife). The doctor's wife was a Christian and was buried in a Christian service in a Christian cemetery. Your assertion that "... the movement ... if in control of Palestine ... would never allow the church to exist" may presume identifying the Palestinians with certain of their most extreme Islamic elements.
In short, the church scene is perfectly appropriate.
Interesting issues. So the present Palestinian Authority allows Christians to freely worship in the areas under their control? How about Gaza? Are things different there? Also raises the extent to which the dispute is religious based or geographic/homeland based.
Also, the priest appears to approve of the action. So is this an "exemption" on the "though shall not kill" commandment based on wartime? Similar to the approach taken by mainline Christian churches during the World Wars and other wars?
This movie certainly makes you think.
(May contain a spoiler)
Defending the Palestinians is not something that I often do. However criticizing them incorrectly undermines one's credibility. It is the same sort of thing as happens in the movie regarding the alleged Jenin massacre. In my separate comment posted here, I noted that the available evidence does not appear to confirm that a massacre occurred.
Regarding the presence of Palestinian Christians in Gaza, please see the Wikipedia article on Palestinian Christians:
Christians of Gaza
Gaza's Christian community mostly lives within the city, especially in areas neighbouring the three main churches: Church of Saint Porphyrius, The Holy Family Catholic Church in Zeitoun Street, and the Gaza Baptist Church, in addition to an Anglican chapel in the Al-Ahli Al-Arabi Arab Evangelical Hospital. Saint Porphyrius is an Orthodox Church that dates back to the 12th century. Gaza Baptist Church is the city's only Evangelical Church; it lies close to the Legislative Council (parliamentary building). Christians in Gaza freely practice their religion. They also may observe all the religious holidays in accordance with the Christian calendars followed by their churches.
I would add just a few observations to your excellent post. Palestinian Christians who leave Palestine do so on account of the Israeli occupation, specific attacks by Jewish extremists, or better job opportunities elsewhere, not because their Muslim compatriots make poor neighbors. The majority believe that the PA treats them fairly. http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_061220bethl ehem.shtml Before the establishment of the state of Israel, they used to constitute about a fifth of the total Arab population of Palestine, but were more likely to emigrate in the aftermath of every conflict from '48 on. Throughout modern history, they've contributed a disproportionate number of Palestinian nationalism's intellectual and political leadership.
This is simply an absurd fiction, among the many that have been foisted for years. Just as the Jordanians before them, those who now call themselves Palestinians have persecuted Christians in all manner of ways, and destroyed their places of worship.
An instructive example is the siege on the Church of the Nativity which saw the occupying terrorists do everything from urinate in the holy water, burn crucifixes, etc.
In fact, Christianity thrives in Israel, and many of those who escape from so called Palestinian rule, simply go to Israel.
Correction: Christian enclaves in Lebanon, Palestine and Syria are being erradicated by Muslim fundamentalists. Sad but true. That is no B.S.
sharePalestine is not Syria or Lebanon. There is a huge amount of sectarian violence in both those countries, and the reasons for it are primarily economic. Take Lebanon, for instance, where the Ottomans favoured the Sunni's, and more recently the French favoured the Christians. What ends up happening is that the Christians are for the most part the wealthiest, and Sunni's in the middle, and the Shia majority is at the bottom. Hezbollah appeals to these people economically every bit as much as it does religiously.
Palestine, however, has no such sectarian divide. Part of the reason for this is that Israel does not treat one group of Palestinians any better than another group, save of course for the Israeli Arabs. Palestinians under occupation are not given props or punishments for being this or that religion.
"as a factual matter the Palestinians are not exclusively Islamic."
This is a true statement. But it is also true, that radical Islamics are performing a systemic extermination of anyone in their terroritory who is not a radical Islamist. In Iraq, In Pakistan, In Afghan, In Somolia, In Lebanon, etc. People think this is not true are fooling themselves with the hope that they will be the last ones killed. Stand up to lunatic religious fanatics bent on genocide whether they be Christian (unlikely), Jewish (unlikely), Morman (very unlikely), or Muslim (very very likely), etc.
Stand up to lunatic religious fanatics bent on genocide whether they be Christian (unlikely)...
So, Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Shabaab, Al Qaeda are christians? That's news to me.
You say you are a "christian". It seems you are just an ignorant fool.
Q: What happens if you get a gigabyte? A: It Megahertz!
No, you're the ignorant, actually, because you seem to think only Islamic people can be radical lunatics. A thousand Al Qaeda wouldn't kill as many people in the name of religion as christian people did, during the entire history. I'm talking about millions of people murdered, burned to death, raped, etc. And that covers only a small part of our history, not to mention the bombings/killings in the US, Ireland, etc. Terrorism is horrible, no matter the reasons behind it, no matter the race or religion. But the Roman Catholic Church is still the only official religious institution that supported radical religion mass killings and large scale religious military campaigns that spread for about 500 years in time and lead to millions of lives taken. Go read a book.
shareAlthough the discussion about Palestinian Christians is a fascinating one, I too missed how that specific Christian Church fit into the storyline. Was it mentioned somewhere else previously in the film that she had visited a Christian Church in Nablus ? He goes to the mosque of the radical cleric because of the radio broadcast that he hears while on the taxi, but I am not sure how he is directed to the Christian church.
shareWhen Amin found the old 'Marc' covered and establish the identity with the one originally bus driver told about he police in which Amin wife get away... He made a phone call to his nephew Adel and the guy who picked the phone arrange a meeting in a church...
Beside in last words 'Father' at church says to Amin, "We are not Islamist or Christians but we raving for the losses we suffered from the hand of Israel and their vicious attack on our houses and dear one we lost...
So in conclusion the 'Radical Islamist' or so called Muslim Brotherhood is nothing but parasite who live and thrive on this ordinary people who doesn't hate other religion and as much they care about their homes and dear ones, they have no grudge against Muslims or Muslims don't have any grudge for Christian.
Muslim Brotherhood is catalyst for all the trouble in world more then that of religion you follow whether you are jews, Muslim or christian...
Spoilers:
The first place Amin goes in his investigation, as any of us will assume, is a mosque. His assumption is his wife was brainwashed and who else can it do better than some crazy Muslim Sheikh.
Even though his wife was Christian, she was treated in Palestine like a hero. People do not dig deeper into the reasons why she did it. The propaganda works only when it's convenient.
Another thing to note when on the tape the guy asks if she wants so say the final word into the camera. Again, another known Muslim trick for propaganda purposes, but she refuses. The reason why she does it it's not religious.
The Church scene was in the movie to show how sympathetic Palestinian Christians are to the Muslims when it comes to the the hatred towards Israel. It's not about jews vs muslims, it's about people who fighting aggression on both sides.
The director walks on the very thin ice, trying very hard not to show any favors to any religion. But I think he fails to do so in the last scene, where Amin talks to Kim and she tells him how grateful he should be and she must pick a side.
It is simply an attempt at being "evenhanded" or worse, politically correct.
There are simply statistically no Christian suicide bombers who have attacked Israel.
One female Christian bomber in about 2002 (again out of more than 170 suicide bombings in Israel and women are a small percentage). Amin is taken to the church after he calls the number looking to connect with his cousin. Is the "priest" really a "priest?" This movie is far from politically correct. Both sides are rejected by Amin, not because they are wrong but because he is now in an existential no man's land.. His job is to save lives. He found some answers: the taxi driver said "If I don't talk about it, I explode"... She did not talk about it to him.. "When you leave, a little part of me dies"... she's not coming back... Rejected by Israeli friends and Palestinian family, ("a man that does not know his country is a bastard" --the sheik.) Amin shares with no one yet He is present in nearly every scene. Movie opens and closes in Tel Aviv but he is another man... Opening speech Amin says "There is a some Arab in every Jew, and a some Jew in every Arab"... at the end his naiveté is stripped... an excellent movie that does not offer up easy answers. These quotes are from memory so please don't take offense ...This a love story not political advocacy...
share Yes, I doubt there are any Christian, female, suicide bombers. Or even male ones? Doubtful. However, are you aware the original Palestinians groups from the 1950s, 60s, and 70s were almost exclusively comprised of secular, marxist/socialist, political radical types. Remember the Black September group?
Radical Islam did not really come into play until the early 1980s or so.
But yes, the film is multi-layered and fascinating. There is no reason to believe the wife converted to Islam or was even much interested in it. She appears to have remained a secular(non-religious) Christian, right up until the time of the bombing. Which makes her reason for the crime, pure political nationalism. Her brain just snapped due to the current dire situation and humiliation of the Palestinians. She wrote the husband in a farewell letter, that she did not want to have a child with him, since the child would have no country of its own.
Yaser Arafat himself married a Christian woman and he used to attend the Christians mass every year, sitting at the front seat. Palestinians have a great respect for the church, generally speaking.
The Keyes of the Ascenscion church are kept by a Palestinian Muslim family for protection by the way.
Very interesting comments. You learn a lot when the tone of the speaker is low, respectful and truthful. Thank you. Amazing what this little movie has presented to the audience and the respecful discussions which followed from viewers of many cultures and religions. Seems like the Producers know what they are doing AND of course the actors which 'lived' this story in front of us. they didn't act, they behaved.
shareThat guys comments are pure Zionist propaganda.
shareInteresting points that you make. I hope they come from your experience living in Israel and not from newspapers or hearsay. Could you please confirm you've lived or at least visited Israel for an extended period. this is not meant to attack you - on the contrary, I respect and want to learn from those who have experience in Israel, Lebannon or Palestine or Jordan.
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WTF? hey, if you want to go turtle who am I to say.
best of luck curled in the fetal position on the bottom of your fox hole.
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I understand the confusion there. Remember, not All Arabs are Muslims in the middle east.
Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, and Palestine have Christian minorities. The threat against Christians and the slaughter that is still taking place today by savage Syrian al Qaeda rebels beheading Christians ... Something you Americans will never see on CNN ... Yes those people.s hatred towards Christians is always there.
However In Palestine, Arabs stand together. If you go back and watch the scene in the church , the priest explains this clearly. He says: "We.re not Islamists nor Christian fanatics. We are just a ravaged people who are fighting with whatever we can to recover our dignity. Nothing more, nothing less."
Arafat.s wife was a Christian Palestinian too.
Hope this helps...
Christians in Gaza suffer greatly and often at the hands of Hamas. Arab Christian emigration by far exceeds Arab Muslim emigration from the West Bank as well.
Christian Arabs have their loyalty divided between being Arab and being Christian. Many of Christian Arabs serve in the Israeli army and fully endorse all Israeli institutions.
They are surely aware of what Islamists have in store for them.
Depicting Sihan as a Christian was, probably, necessary in order to avoid putting all the blame for the suicidal bombing on Muslims. The move showed Israelis as humans, and this is already a sin for the Islamists. Linking them to this bombing would be taken as an additional damage to their PR of victimhood.
The future Arafat's wife Suha converted to Islam before getting married to Arafat.
There were NO Arab Christian suicide bombers in Palestine so far. There were many Arab Christian or Marxist terrorists - yes - PFLP, DFLP, etc - but committing suicide to kill infidels in Palestine is the practice of Islamists only, prohibited by the Church.
May be Sihan converted to Islam to marry Amin and continued to use her former faith as a cover.
Limiting all terrorism to Muslims would be unforgivable error on the part of movie producers. They already took a chance showing Israel with compassion and understanding.
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