MovieChat Forums > When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts (2006) Discussion > Give me, I want, I need, provide for me,...

Give me, I want, I need, provide for me, when did we become so weak?

posted 15 years ago by trompos
21 replies | jump to latest

This is a great movie if you want to see what we've turned into. We've become dependant on the government or whomever, but we are NOT the independent people we once were. I was disgusted, NOT by Bush's lack of a response (if you want to b!tch about that, b!tch equally about the democratic Gov. and Mayor) I was not shocked by the destruction, I was disgusted and shocked by the people talking about how FEMA HAD to pay for their continued stay in hotels. The gov HAD to fee them, shelter them. I get that many people were poor, and yes, charity is a great thing and anyone of any faith or none at all should be ready to give if you consider yourself a person with a moral code, but to DEMAND these things, THAT is disgusting.

You saw these people with the energy and ability to picket on Washington and march in NYC for the right to stay for FREE in a hotel, why didn't they use that energy to get a job? FEMA's money was used by the Gotti Boys in NO to buy cars, cell phones and drugs for sale in Texas where they were relocated, yet they couldn't use that energy for a job? Why not use the energy back home to clean up and rebuild?

This movie was also disgusting in its CONSTANT assertion that black people were victims of a government conspiracy to kill all the blacks of NO. This is Ridiculous these people are victims, NOT Americans.

If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] trompos 15 years ago

Counter my argument, try to have a real thought rather than attacking a previous post and calling me an idiot, tell me WHY I'm an idiot.

If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

[–] InNeedofaLife 15 years ago

>>"When they get piled upon one another in large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe." --Thomas Jefferson

"I view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts; but the useful ones can thrive elsewhere; and less perfection in the others, with more health, virtue and freedom, would be my choice." --Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush, 1800. ME 10:173

"A city life offers you indeed more means of dissipating time, but more frequent, also, and more painful objects of vice and wretchedness." --Thomas Jefferson to William Short, 1823. ME 15:469 <<<

For centuries, cities have been recognized as a blight upon society, and Jefferson addressed it many times.

THere's a reason Hollyweird always focuses natural disasters, terrorist attacks, alien invasions, etc., on large cities, as it's widely recognized that people who live in large cities are extremely vunerable.

The thin veneer of civilization is most evident in large cities as well.

The floods up north last year were not sensationalized as much as New Orleans, for the simple fact that the floods struck communties in which their daily lives involved dealing with ice, snow, floods, etc.

For celebrities to be tromping around filling sanbags for a few hours in a farming community then fly back to L.A. to snort a few lines would have struck much of America as incredibly funny.

Add to that the fact that New Orleans has a huge percentage of people on the public dole and are unaccustomed to providing for themselves, and you can see why the government figures so prominently in their lives.

Rural American can live without cities, as we can set up manufacturing plants anywhere, but cities are totally dependant upon rural America.

[–] jmota-1 15 years ago

No We? They, I have been many times in Florida when hurricane warnings are issued and guess what. I got my wife and kids, out of their. My Father -in-law refuses to leave so before we evacuate I make it appoint to make my wife and kids say good bye to him like it might be the last time they see hime alive. IF you know the hurricane is coming as it is "no secret" that it is coming. you leave, where do you go? easy, anywher ethe hurricane is not. Sleep in your car for aday who gives a crap. You can tell me you can look into your kids eyes and not get off your rear-end to save them??? Why would you risk your loved ones?? How selfish to put your loved ones at risk.

The way I see it is this, you are responsible for your self and your loved ones, if the government is, than it is not necessarily a bad thing. If your not arround after the hurricane.

[–] InNeedofaLife 15 years ago

>>No We? They, I have been many times in Florida when hurricane warnings are issued and guess what. I got my wife and kids, out of their. My Father -in-law refuses to leave so before we evacuate I make it appoint to make my wife and kids say good bye to him like it might be the last time they see hime alive. IF you know the hurricane is coming as it is "no secret" that it is coming. you leave, where do you go? easy, anywher ethe hurricane is not. Sleep in your car for aday who gives a crap. You can tell me you can look into your kids eyes and not get off your rear-end to save them??? Why would you risk your loved ones?? How selfish to put your loved ones at risk.

The way I see it is this, you are responsible for your self and your loved ones, if the government is, than it is not necessarily a bad thing. If your not arround after the hurricane. <<<

Yep, what you just posted has been a common theme among several of us.
It's not a popular view, as it implies that human beings have to actually think for themselves. and place blame on themselves.

To post what you just did will get you accused of being heartless and racist, while those who allowed their family members to die due to their inaction will be "victims," "Heroes," and "activists.

Meanwhile, the people of New Orleans have murdered more of each other since Katrina than Katrina did.

[–] whatever94401 15 years ago

jmota-1
Finally someone posts on this thread who has a brain

Thank you!

[–] InNeedofaLife 15 years ago

>>jmota-1
Finally someone posts on this thread who has a brain

Thank you!<<

You're welcome.

[–] whatever94401 15 years ago

not you, the smart guy who evacs his family, I was thanking him for his post

[–] rimdad1962 15 years ago

HA! Jethro thought whatever was talking about him! He/she really put you in your place, numbnuts.

[–] whatever94401 15 years ago

I liked JMOTA-1s post because it shows a solution to this problem in the future. Basically if you chose or have to live in an area like the Gulf Coast, do whatever you can to have an emergency plan. IF you do not want to have this plan, spend this money or want to be inconvenienced, either move or accept the consequences. Now for those who absolutely cannot fend for themselves because they are elderly, children, have mental issues, there probably can be adequate help for you during or after a bad hurricane if those that are able would get their act together. One thing Katrina did was really hi light, at least to me, the awful lives of those on government assistance. You really are not that free once you decide to live off money you don't earn. Look at this tragedy, the people stuffed in the Dome, that was deplorable, but even as you feel sorry for them, there are parts of you that feel like they brought some of this on themselves by not being productive members of society who would have the means to evacuate. Now, I don't know all the circumstances, some really cannot do for themselves and need to get aid from the government and it is not their fault. But if Katrina taught the US anything, it was "IF you are able to work, get an education, better yourself, do it, because the government will never treat your family as well as you would treat it"

[–] InNeedofaLife 15 years ago

>>I liked JMOTA-1s post because it shows a solution to this problem in the future. Basically if you chose or have to live in an area like the Gulf Coast, do whatever you can to have an emergency plan. IF you do not want to have this plan, spend this money or want to be inconvenienced, either move or accept the consequences. Now for those who absolutely cannot fend for themselves because they are elderly, children, have mental issues, there probably can be adequate help for you during or after a bad hurricane if those that are able would get their act together. One thing Katrina did was really hi light, at least to me, the awful lives of those on government assistance. You really are not that free once you decide to live off money you don't earn. Look at this tragedy, the people stuffed in the Dome, that was deplorable, but even as you feel sorry for them, there are parts of you that feel like they brought some of this on themselves by not being productive members of society who would have the means to evacuate. Now, I don't know all the circumstances, some really cannot do for themselves and need to get aid from the government and it is not their fault. But if Katrina taught the US anything, it was "IF you are able to work, get an education, better yourself, do it, because the government will never treat your family as well as you would treat it"<<<

Exactly.
One of the founding pricipals of the United States was that it was a system of government that gave people the freedom to choose for themselves what was best for their family.
It was only in the 1930's with Roosevelt's push for big government that people started giving thought to letting the federal government make dcisions for themselves.
Previous to the 30's,the federal government was actually quite small, and few people would ever have reason to have any type of involvement with any of their agencies.
Now, it's a way of life for many.

[–] InNeedofaLife 15 years ago

Myth has become so infatuated with me, that days passed without him stating his disagreement to Whatever's post.

It's quite obvious to all here that Myth only posts back to me, and eagerly awaits my next post.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Harmon30 15 years ago

I agree with the OP. That is the biggest problem with this country, and especially with this movie. Everyone has this attitude that the government should do EVERYTHING for them, no matter what. I agree that the government should provide reasonable things to the people, but people also have to provide for themselves.

[–] jandybanandy 13 years ago

I always sort of identified with Liberal Dems and I really struggled with the same feelings expressed by the OP. When I said it out loud my daughter said I "had" to watch this docu, so I did. I have compassion for the suffering but honestly I am still put off by the anger of Katrina's victims. Coincidentally I watched it Sept 10, 2011 so the next day I saw all of the 911 footage for the ten year anniversary. What a contrast. 60+ NYC police died, dozens were injured, and the rest were digging their friends out of the rubble. Marginalized New Yorkers could have grabbed the opportunity to blast in to 5th Ave stores and steal everything in sight. But they didn't. They brought coffee to the Rescue Teams, they donated blood, they helped in any way they could. By contrast New Orleans citizens looted electronics from Wal-Mart. I mean, if they broke in to steal floatation devices, fresh water, and dry shirts it wouldn't be so disgusting. And the knee-jerk reaction to the word "refugee". Calm down people. When you seek refuge from a storm, you are a refugee.

New Yorkers bleeding and covered in ash assisted others. New Orleans victims shook their fists at the cameras and yelled angrily at the people that were helping that it wasn't enough. Sorry, truly. But I have trouble feeling compassionate towards people who behave that way. After 50 years I am wondering if I may be racist or elitist and I really don't think so but if I am, so are Katrina's black victims. BTW I was just as disgusted at the two white angry ladies - drinking beer and blaming everyone but the WEATHER. You don't have to have money to have class.

[–] balthazar_bee 12 years ago

Well, to be fair, to try to make some sort of direct comparison between the WTC attacks and Hurricane Katrina is already very problematic.

For starters, New Yorkers had the advantage of being "under attack" by some third party from outside -- it acts to bond those on the ground in a way that is qualitatively different from natural disasters.

Second, and this is pretty obvious, but the specific circumstances of 9/11 were narrower, in that there wasn't a huge chunk of time when people would've had an opportunity to loot -- which seems to be your biggest grievance.

Also, much of the so-called looting consisted of human beings trying to get things they needed for survival. Not all, but "much". I thought this was made clear in the documentary, but it's been several years since I watched it. Adding fuel to the fire was the sense that the rest of the country (and government) had decided to ignore the problem wholesale, and left the affected citizens to waste away in the stagnant pools that remained.

It's situations like this that cause people to feel alienated from civil society in the first place, and from there it's easy to rationalize committing crimes. The much greater crime was not doing enough to help in the first palce -- people died as a direct result of this inaction, you know? Who cares if a couple of TVs got stolen?

As for identifying with "Liberal Dems" as you call them, as an outsider, it seems to me that nothing has done greater harm to American political discourse than one group calling the other one names; this isn't new to politics of course, but the fevered hysteria of the American political landscape right now is terrifying. It's like watching the fall of the Roman Empire. And the "Dems" aren't very liberal by any sane measure, despite what you hear on talk radio.

[–] Gooyers38 12 years ago

balthazar-

You seem to be the only person in this thread not blaming the victims, which is somewhat disturbing to me.

Let's get a few things straight:

1. New Orleans was and is a major American city. It is one of the most significant ports in the WORLD, it is a vital center for domestic energy production (Gulf of Mexico oil), making it a major economic center, and probably the most significant economic center in the Gulf region. It is one of the most culturally rich and vibrant cities in America, and it is a major tourist destination. It is and was full of American citizens, the vast majority of whom worked, and still work, their asses off for a living. It is not a vast shanty town filled with faceless non-human welfare junkies. Some people in New Orleans are on welfare, as in every city and region, but the vast, vast majority aren't.

2. The flooding of 80% New Orleans was caused by the catastrophic failure of levees which were not built or maintained to even sustain the storm surge from a category 1 Hurricane. Much of New Orleans is below sea level. If the government doesn't want to spend the money build or maintain the public works project of levees capable of keeping New Orleans safe from flooding, then they should at least have the basic human decency to INFORM THE PEOPLE OF NEW ORLEANS THAT THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY LIVING IN A DEATH TRAP. Well over a thousand people drowned or were otherwise killed due to flooding (ie. crushed by debris) in residential neighbourhoods, flooding which occured because of an absolutely incredible and disgraceful civil engineering failure, due to blatant government negligence, not simply because of a hurricane.

3. All levels of government should have leaped to coordinate a humanitarian response to the situation in New Orleans. 4 simple things, which a country like the United States is more than capable of mobilizing within a DAY: A) DRINKING WATER, B) FOOD, C) SEARCH AND RESCUE, D) SHELTER/EVACUATION. When a disaster of this magnitude occurs in a major city, there are going to be people in need of help. Yes there was an evacuation order. Inevitably, when you give an evacuation order for a major city, some people are going to stay. Either because they lacked the means to evacuate, or because they chose to ride out the storm (which probably would have made sense if the levees hadn't been *beep* made of matchsticks). It doesn't matter why people were still there what matters is that they were PEOPLE. American citizens! American citizens, in a major American city, had to wait 5 *beep* days for food or water to be brought to them at designated evacuation sites. Now I know how difficult it is for any level of government to respond to a disaster of this magnitude. Mistakes are going to be made, problems will arise, not everyone will be saved. But FEMA couldn't have done the basic things they needed to do more slowly or more ineptly if they had been deliberately trying to do things slowly and ineptly. Or maybe they were deliberately trying to do things slowly and ineptly. As some kind of cosmic *beep* you from the Federal Government to the people of New Orleans. Either way, food was thrown out behind restaurants and grocery stores across the U.S. while 100,000 Americans citizens had no access to safe drinking water in a disaster zone.

4. Ultimately it was the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who was responsible for the flooding. In other words, the federal government. I know that there's other factors, like municipality was supposed to look after it, but the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers built the *beep* levees, and those *beep* things failed in 20 places. UNDER A CATEGORY 1 STORM SURGE. BECAUSE KATRINA, A CATEGORY 3 AT THAT POINT, ACTUALLY MISSED NEW ORLEANS. So let me ask you this: Shouldn't the federal government be responsible for repairing or replacing every last *beep* house damaged by that flooding?

5. People's lives should matter more than looting. There was *beep* looting. Some of it was to collect supplies to survive, some of it was opportunism. But it seemed like the fact that some property was being stolen was more important to politicians than the fact that +100,000 people were without food or water for five *beep* days.

One lesson for poor people, and especially poor black people, in America: The government isn't going to help you NO MATTER WHAT. You are sub-human in the eyes of government. because this is the kind of people who get elected in America. This is the kind of system we have created. Under no circumstances can you rely on the government to help you. Not because they aren't capable of helping you, the United States government put a man on the moon. It is because the government is in no way there for your benefit in this country. it is because in our political culture, poor people genuinely do not matter. Politicians in general do not care, even in a situation like the Katrina disaster. Even during a major disaster, no level of government was able to get food or water to people who had gone to designated evacuation sites (Superdome and Convention Center). Shyt, at least I heard those were designated evacuation sites, even if they weren't designated sites, people went to those places in their thousands and waited expecting basic humanitarian aid to be brought to them. Yes, brought to them. If your only response to that is "they should have been more self-reliant" you've got serious mental issues. You're seriously *beep* in the head. This wasn't some scheme by the poor of New Orleans to get a hand out. Like "we can eat free for a few days." it was a whole lot more like "The city is flooded due to a hurricane, the utilities are out, many of us have no way to evacuate, we have no access to food or water unless we loot grocery stores, WILL SOMEBODY *beep* BRING US SOME FOOD AND WATER AND/OR EVACUATE US?" But why? WHY WHY WHY CAN'T WE RELY ON OUR POLITICIANS TO DO ANYTHING IN THE INTERESTS OF ORDINARY PEOPLE?!? WHY DO WE RE-ELECT THE SAME CORRUPT SYCOPHANTIC LYING ELITIST *beep* ALL THE TIME? I DON'T WANT A HAND-OUT, I WANT TO WORK HARD AT A STEADY JOB FOR A LIVING WAGE, AND IF I LIVE IN A CITY THAT IS 49% BELOW SEA LEVEL AND THE PEOPLE I ELECTED DIDN'T MAINTAIN AN ADEQUATE LEVEE SYSTEM AND MY CITY FLOODS AND I AM LEFT WITH NO WAY TO EVACUATE OR GET FOOD OR CLEAN WATER, I EXPECT AND DEMAND THAT THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDE ADEQUATE HUMANITARIAN RELIEF AND SEARCH AND RESCUE RESOURCES IN VERY SHORT ORDER.

[–] Gooyers38 12 years ago

Also, you people who say "why aren't we independent anymore" realize that in this wonderful economic system of ours you need money to get anything right? And that therefore you need to have a job and work? And that there actually aren't enough jobs to go around in many regions of the country? And that people don't know how to grow their own food, or rather most don't have the ability to buy their own arable land? This isn't *beep* pioneer days you morons. We have a division of labor. We have public works. We do not live in Jefferson's vision of an 18th century agrarian society (which was dependant on slavery I believe?).

Now I'll readily admit that too many people are horrifyingly ignorant and need to develop the necessary skills to live better lives and be more productive members of society. We are becoming a stupid society. But part of the problem is the severe neglect of the public education system. Our culture needs to value education more, but also government needs to provide better public education. Ultimately cutting costs on education is not worth the price of living in a stupid society.

[–] balthazar_bee 12 years ago

Gooyers: If IMDb had a bar, I'd be buying your next round.

[–] Gooyers38 12 years ago

Peace and love brother. Life goes on, we do what we can.

[–] Black_Lies_Matter 12 years ago

The entitlement society - introduced, encouraged and supported by leftists, all for the sake of votes - has destroyed the United States. It's finished. Game over.