A Plea for No Piracy


I originally wrote this as a rebuttal at the end of a long thread, but I think it deserves its own discussion.

This film's movie meter has skyrocketed due to its sudden popularity and apparent availability on the internet, albeit to those with a more sophisticated internet know-how. Although I understand the appeal for pirated movies (they're free, right?), a film like this, with a budget of just a few million dollars (tiny by Hollywood standards), will not be made if it's inevitable that it will end up free on the internet before it gets a chance to make a return on its investment. People willing to pony up the money to fund a film, which is already a risky investment, will disappear if they know it runs a great risk of being de-valued: i.e., if they know the uphill battle of selling enough tickets and screening rights to not just break even but make a profit will go up in smoke.

It's also hard for the consumer to differentiate between a movie that runs with few or no commercials on basic cable, or paying a flat fee for Netflix no matter how many movies they see with it, and with downloading without paying anything. But downloading compensates no one, whereas the other two options have the subscription fees or cable rates chipping in for it. Also, the actors who work on these films will get less. Not just the stars: I have one line in this movie, Trainwreck. No one recognizes me on the street, and I have to keep day jobs between acting gigs. But if no one makes money on a movie, it won't be made, or I will make less, or nothing at all for my acting. So this logically leads to crappier product and crappier acting (who would bother focusing seriously on an acting career if you're never paid for it?), less interesting movies with something to say and you can forget about independent films.

A band whose music is illegally downloaded can still be paid to play its music for pay through touring, live shows and merchandising, but a movie makes money only on the movie itself. The world works as it does, and I know 100% of anything is unattainable, much less 100% no theft. But if you are reading this, you are probably a movie lover. Not paying for a movie when it costs money to make it endangers independent film at large, as they are the hardest hit because of their slight profit margins.


That said, I think producers should also be extremely careful of whom they lend their viewing copies to. With all due respect to the people behind the film (and I do respect them), I think that if there hadn't been such a long wait between finishing the film and distributing it there wouldn't have been so much time for this to happen. I only hope the distributors take this as a warning, that demand for this movie is high and if they want to recoup their losses, release it NOW. Obviously, there's an audience for it!!!!!

reply

Do the distributors come here and read user comments? If so, I hope they read your last paragraph.


This film's movie meter has skyrocketed due to its sudden popularity


You are right there too... it reaches the rank of 44th last week! And it is not even officially out. I only saw the first minutes of it, and I thought to compare it to Half Nelson, http://imdb.com/title/tt0468489/, but with SWS' dynamic (from what I saw).

reply

i think you fail to understand that most of us who watch "pirated" movies, WOULD NOT PAY TO SEE THE MOVIES ANYWAY. No profit loss, and its debatable as to whether or not making a copy is any sort of wrong. Youre working from a flawed start-point, son.

reply

So then you will have to find something else to do, because there WILL BE NO MOVIES MADE. You fail to understand economics, "son". Theft is theft, no matter what the justification. In the narrow view of your own existence, you fail to see that you will not pay for them because that option to steal them is available. If you found films to be of no value as you claim, then you would not spend the time watching them.

reply

You fail to understand what a society is. Without a society, you will have to grow your vegetables, make your cloths, cook your food, etc., since no one else would do it, you will have to do all of these. With a society, some people grow the vegetables, some make the cloths, and so on, but in exchange for their 'specialization', they expect to have their fair return on what others produce (and that, themselves, do not produce anymore). The GLUE of the society is that FAIRNESS in the exchange. If someone got only from other while himself giving nothing, people will start to complain and if nothing is done, as a society, their productivity will decrease dramatically. So, in short, it is not that they DO NOT LOOSE profit, that is the problem, but that YOU clearly don't pay what other does, and these others, if society do nothing, will also start using piracy ... after all, they are not dumb.

In really few words, your behavior is simply not FAIR. Your behavior, not alone but by the example it gives, is against the society 'pact', and HAS TO BE PROSECUTED. You want grow your own vegetable and make your own cloths?

reply

"So this logically leads to crappier product and crappier acting "

Wow, Jack Cafferty would be dying to see that coming....

...
I'm rich and divorced

reply

"Wow, Jack Cafferty would be dying to see that coming.... "

Okay, so it's a matter of degrees! Just wait until it's nothing but reality TV stars competing for a "prize" in lieu of pay! :)

reply

Not even a worthy movie to bitch about piracy...

reply

ooooo-key. Rhetoric 101 then.


What is a 'worthy movie' about piracy? a movie that can bring you money by pirating it? Na, it would be 'a movie of worthy piracy', so, what is a 'worthy movie' ? Not wothy of your effort? but your effort is about piracy, not about making the movie. So, in the end, what is not worthy is your effort which is the piracy, so the piracy is not worthy, right? not the movie. Wrong?


What is 'to bitch about piracy'? Do you consider that piracy has 'glamour', is 'prestigious', is 'socialy nicely considered among your friends'? so we don't bitch about piracy? 'We must not bitch about piracy'? Is that what you meant? Then it has nothing to do if it is a movie or whatever, it is only about 'we do not bitch against the God of Piracy. Right? Wrong?


If there are some movies worthy to bitch about piracy, or probably what you meant, if there are movies worthy of piracy, why this one is NOT one of them?


reply

Personally, I think it's about the whole entitlement generation reaching its apex. You know, those people who are now in their early 20s (I'm not yet an old man myself, I'm in my 30s) who are used to instant gratification, moral vacuums and coddling or non-present parents. Not long ago, if you wanted something unusual or rare, you had to diligently seek it out; now, you just type it into a search engine and there you have it. It seems that the Entitled fall into two categories: the ones whose parents support them throughout their 20s so that they can continue their coddled adolescence, and those whose parents don't or can't support them, so they feel cheated and therefore entitled to take whatever they want.

Harder times are coming, the last recession of any import was when they were infants. You have no imagination to envision America of 25 years ago when there were longs lines for gasoline, shortages and massive unemployment and inflation. How will you cope when suddenly everything is no longer free and easy? Wake up chump, reality is knocking on the door.

reply

[deleted]

"theres a flaw in the system"

It is not much a "flaw in the system" than "allowing" you to use the "system". You can, indeed, abuse of it, to your advantage, that is not a big deal, even a fool can do it. There would only be a "flaw" if the system would never bite back.

reply

[deleted]

To spend them in jail?

reply

[deleted]

Justice is very slow, you know? Read the news and you will see that more often than otherwise, people get accused for facts they did 3 to 4 years ago, not 3 to 4 days ago. There is no one knocking at your door, right now, but they have all their time to do it. You may get signs only in a couple of years that someone is on your case, right now.

You may also check that this may be a criminal offense, in your country. That would imply a criminal file if you are found guilty.

The system has flaw? No, not really, the system knows how to deal with those 'who abuse of the flaws', and the system deals with them its way, not necessary as *you* think it does, or doesn't.


Your *best* argument is that I am dumb? you don't have much *good* argument left, for your 'cause', isn't it?

reply

[deleted]


(your) total lack of factual evidence


regular everyday people who use these file sharing and torrent programs rarely get prosecuted


but so, some of these regular everyday people *do* get prosecuted. What evidence do you need? you are already aware of it! It is your own claim. Not surprising you have such a laborious time to *beep* us: you try to prove something and acknowledge the opposite.



prove me wrong!


You did it yourself.



there is estimated to be 52 million people in the US using file sharing software


Using file sharing software is NOT illegal in itself. If you own what you share, that is quite acceptable. There 52 million (estimated) people in the USA are not necessary sharing what they don't own or what is not already of public domain.



YOU claim piracy is not prosecuted! That, that needs evidence. I never gave something such as the percentage of people who got caught... because I don't have it, and who have that information, anyhow? But I, and you, know piracy prosecution exists, in large cases as weel as in very small ones, such as individual guy getting caught filming a movie in a theater.

Like a speed excess on highway, you are not ALWAYS caught, each and every time, but when you are caught, well, you are caught (sophism).




reply

[deleted]

Your 52 million of people sharing files illegally is border line to insult of anyone intelligence. That is more than one people in 6, in USA, just to make the number in context. Remove the young children, remove the 60+ years old, remove those who don't own a computer or who don't have a fast internet connection, remove those who are afraid to break their computer by hit the Enter key, to get a tally of 52 millions, you need a ratio like 50% to close to 100% of those left. Well, I DO share files, when my Windows OS based computer get its automatic updates from Microsoft, I DO share files when my World of Warcraft game get its patch, each two weeks (more or less). So MAYBE we can reach a count of 52 million people sharing fiels, counting this way, but it is only in your head that these 52 million of people do it illegally.

For any other points, you contradict yourself, supporting the thesis and its antithesis at the same time, in a standard *beep* style, that is not really “making points”.


Only 9 years old? why not? do I need to get older than that to have the required intellectual capabilities to stand against your "argumentation"?

reply

[deleted]

Statute of Limitations

reply

I certainly hope that the the fallout can be good for pirated movies in the form of free publicity. However, my discussion is pirated movies that HAVE NOT BEEN RELEASED IN ANY FORMAT. I'm really not sure why Trainwreck hasn't been released either on DVD or in theaters yet, and the longer it's in this limbo the less likely it will see the legit light of day....

reply

Toledo,
From what I've read/heard, the director had a distribution deal that fell through. The movie was first supposed to be released in 2007. Then it was supposed to be released in Spring, 2008. Both deals fell through. As of now, it's only being released overseas (In theatres in Russia and DVD sales in other coutries). A
At this point, I think the director is still working out a distribution deal. Hopefully, it's not too late. I would love to see this movie hit the theaters --- or at least on DVD. I'm definitely not going to watch a pirated version on the internet. The cast, crew, and everyone else worked too hard on this movie to disrespect them like that.

reply

[deleted]