I take it personally - The War Tapes (2006) Discussion

[–] pfm66 18 years ago

Brad don't let it get to you - no matter what anyone here says you and I and everyone else that have been to Iraq know the accuracy of this film, its good points and bad. At the end of the day we did our jobs and came back alive, that is all that matters, and nobody that hasn't been there has an opinion that is worth Jack. Take care :).

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[–] JWNeeley 18 years ago

Smitty, let me just start off by thanking you for your service to this country. I'm not in the millitary, but I work on Fort Hood every day and I have friends and family that have either been in or still are in the millitary so it does have a pretty big influence on my life. It just astonishes me that people who haven't been there and aren't willing to make the sacrifice that you and your fellow soldiers have, think they have any room to do anything but show gratitude and appreciation to the men and women of the armed forces. Yes, you can disagree with the war, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but how can you protest the men and women who are just following orders and risking their lives for you and for the Iraqi people? Think before you speak people, these men and women are heroes. Support your troops.

Justin
<[email protected]>

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[–] armyofjason 15 years ago

you can disagree with the war, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but how can you protest the men and women who are just following orders and risking their lives for you and for the Iraqi people? Think before you speak people, these men and women are heroes. Support your troops.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's almost like you're saying everyone can have an opinion as long as it's the same as yours. I'm a soldier currently serving in Iraq and I hardly consider myself a hero. How could just following orders make me a hero. If given the choice, I would leave and go how. I can't speak for everyone here but I know many people here feel the same way. I understand what you're saying, but soldiers fight to preserve the freedoms of all American and not just the ones who agree with ours. "Although I disagree with what you're saying, I'll defend to the death your right to say it." That's something someone told me as I was in processing and I stick with that.

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[–] genoaj 18 years ago

Though I have closely followed the war in Iraq since the beginning, watching this film last night truly opened my eyes to what you and your fellow soldiers have gone through and continue to go through. Sadly, I was the only person in the theater. The only good thing about that was there was nobody there to see me repeatedly cry, or shutter at the sound of an I.E.D. exploding or a 50 cal. machine gun returning fire. This is a film that everyone should see, despite their position or opinion. Maybe some people would stop being so thankless. My heart goes out to all service men and women and their families, and also to the Iraqi civilians. It's clear from this that nobody wins in war.

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[–] tudorguy-1 18 years ago

Sorry, but you and your unfortunate kind aren't giving up anything for me. War with Iraq was unjustified. Grow up. You are a pawn in a power game, not a defender of freedom (except freedom to earn ever-higher profits).

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[–] no_cash 18 years ago

well said tudorguy-1. i dont owe the military or anyone in it anything. it was their choice to go so deal with it, i dont want to hear about it. you arent "protecting my freedom", "saving me from the terrorists" or any of the other rediculous canned phrases you people use. you are simply enforcing empire. its your choice if you want to be fodder for oil hungry dictatorships.

so thats your big point? we should all shut our mouths? no dissent or we get tracked down to have our heads beaten in? wow...good argument. its apparent what your view of "this country" is.
and who are you calling "hippy" gomer pyle?

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[–] joerigger 18 years ago

Ok cash,

For whatever reasons you have, you’re right, you don't owe anybody anything! Every person that serves in the United States Military has volunteered. I know for a fact that they are not "WHINING" about it. They are trying to relay the experiences they have had, hoping that you would understand the sacrifices that they are making. Everyone has different reasons for joining. Enough on that.

As for the "CANNED PHRASES", here comes my 1st Amendment right in action, "You’re an IDIOT". Would you rather have the brave young men and women that choose to serve there country fighting in Iraq or in New York City. That is were it would happen if we don't stop it over there. It wouldn't happen next year, but sooner or later, it would become an issue on "OUR" homeland.

Don't ever shut your mouth. That is what makes this country great. Your ability to make your self look like the uneducated, uninformed liberal you are. Now we don't have to wonder what kind of person you are.

Isn't it 4:20 or something cash, don't you have your thing to do!!!!

Support our troops!
Because they are you and I.

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[–] no_cash 18 years ago

talk about looking dumb... what does 4:20 have to do with anything? and like i said im not left wing and im definitely not a liberal.

i understand that people have different reasons for joining... im not debating that but when people act like i owe the military something its rediculous. what does bravery have to do with it? i think enlisting is more a result of brainwashing... that or the simple fact that recruiters prey on the poor. either way "sacrificing" would be the wrong word to use... that entails that they are doing a selfless act for my benefit. i dont want them over there so i dont think anyone is sacrificing themselves. they have choices... as did i. i chose not to join no matter how piss poor i was. i even went to the recruiting office when i was 18...luckily i came to my senses and got the *beep* out of there and ive been glad of that fact every day since.

i thought you were going to respond to my canned phrases comment? you started to and then just ended up calling me an idiot...way to make a point and then not follow thru. and finally: "our homeland"? is it just me our does that sound like some rediculous nationalist talk?

Support YOUR troops!
Mine are all at home

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[–] rjk6w4 18 years ago

Did you just claim a connection between anything that's happening in Iraq and 9/11? Wow. As if that wasn't enough, your grammar, use of the CAPS lock key, and multiple exclamation points just scream intellect. Please refrain from calling someone else uneducated and uninformed.

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[–] PabloMM 17 years ago

Iraq wasn't going to attack the us. and had no weapons of mass destruction.

preventive war? come on..! It's like the argument of a psychopath.

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[–] Citizen-Shane 17 years ago

I have never fought in war and don’t pretend to understand what it must be like, no book or anything else for that matter, except being there can allow a person to comprehend the toll it must take both physically and mentally. I don't care what your political leanings are, these men and women believe in a cause and are willing to fight and die for it. That deserves respect and admiration, I for one, have great contempt for people who insult and berate our nation’s soldiers. These arguments are made by arrogant self-important people trying to look more intelligent and noble at the expense of others. It just makes you look like an ungrateful human being. I thank those fighting for our freedoms who show bravery and courage in the face of opposition both abroad and at home. Also the same people bashing this film are against censorship and patriot acts etc... How hypocritical is that?

People have a right to their views also without the threat of intimidation part of protecting freedom is allowing it, everyone has a right to say something, it is just as wrong to berate those who disagree as any thing else. You can see where I stand, but everyone deserves dignity, everyone. I may not respect a view but I also must have enough tolerance for those who do not respect mine. It should matter when listening to an opinion what the person has to say, not what language and cultural they come from, their are good and bad people everywhere. This is something the types of people mention above, self important fools, don't practice or understand.

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[–] mrgold10 17 years ago

i think what everyone fails to realise is that this war is no longer about policys and governments, its about those men and women who are serving in Iraq.
Does anyone have any idea what it feels like to be in a war zone, while knowing that their home country does nothing but criticise them. These men and women fight a day to day battle and believe me, bullets, mortars, IED's and the enemy are not always the worst things on their mind. So instead of giving them *beep* lets support them......because ultimately that is their job as soldiers.

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[–] PabloMM 17 years ago

Well, sorry to let you know this.. but the internet is way wider than the united states. However it's not surprising anymore to see how you people think that you are the whole world and talk loud and act loud accordingly.

Even so, many of us who are not United Statens are happy to see that the first step to stopping your governments genocidal policies is taking place, and that is Public Opinion switching from a mindless nationalistic support for war, to the greater goal of Peace.

I agree with you that soldiers are victims in a way. I myself would rather do anything else than being a soldier in a war on the side of the USA.

It's very probable that if your country ever intervenes on or invades mine -openly or in secret- I would then be a soldier to protect my family and my soil. Because that would be a real, actual, direct threat (like it happened in El Salvador, Panama, Nicaragua, Chile, Afghanistan, Iraq, and a long painful etcetera), unlike the dubious preemptive wars that your government sells and wages against other countries,(with the passive -and sometimes active!- support of the conservative majority of USA's population) based on lies, false associations, or misuse of actual intelligence.

I for one think the best way to support your soldiers, who by the way are basically kids... (that reminds me of outraged reports on your mainstream media about underage soldiers fighting against invasions by the USA)... is to ask and FIGHT for their return to home, out in the streets, through congressmen, making noise.. instead of fighting the visceral forum war.

If your job is to kill.. you are a murderer. Period. You support that? That's where the line is drawn between humanity and fanaticism.

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[–] matelowkryptonite 17 years ago

it america that puts these countries in these positions to breed terrorist. Black septmber nd other terrorist orgainsations were set up due to western world handing over *beep* that werent even there, like israel. They never earnt that country we just handed it over and said up your muslims. If we woud have gave them ireland it would have given the irish a chance to carry on with there terrorism but i suppose you use different words for that, you call that one fighting oppression. Its about time new countries like america left the world to grown ups.

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[–] Ronnie_Dobbs 18 years ago

(except freedom to earn ever-higher profits)

HI I AM INTERESTED IN THESE 'EVER-HIGHER' PROFITS!

Last time I checked no one was making great profits. Except when I checked in 1998 and everyone in America was goddamn rich. No, these are tough times now buddy. No dotcom will pull your ass out of poverty these days. But, I digress...

You must mean oil. Yeah, oil is doing well. Because we want it all, and there isn't any of it. I mean, no *beep* we're reaching the end of our supply. Supply and demand, simple economics here. Gas has been cheap too long, cars have been horribly inefficient, and people are whining about the cost of fuel being a government conspiracy. Guess what...Your economy went to *beep* That's it! Bottom line! No more free money!

Not just about cars, there is home heating oil too. Everyone needs heat, sucks that people cant afford it anymore. Go out and make biodiesel out of waste vegetable oil! Its easy and actually pretty exciting to do. Ends up costing about 33 cents a gallon because you need to buy Methanol, but works perfectly since most home heating oil is actually pure diesel. It's just coloured different so the oil companies get fined if it's in their trucks.

It just makes no sense. Iraq has only further destabalized the ENTIRE region's oil trade with America, most likely forever. Are you saying we went in there so we could make the entire world pissed and cut off the oil, so that our oil companies would get rich for a while off the American people while they're broke as hell? That's what a lot of people have been saying. But why? Why would they do that? They're pretty much *beep* for later, when China is using all the gas that SHOULD be in America...I'm sure thats not how anyone wants to run their oil company. Enlighten me as to why this is so.

Go biodiesel! Runs on any diesel engine, heats any home, and you won't have to rely on Muhammed Allah Akbar's oil refinery when he's burning it down himself out of spite.

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[–] matelowkryptonite 17 years ago

Got to be said isnt it time the rest of the world had some fuel instead of you going round in your massive engines using petrol. oull be upset when you start paying through the nose like the rest of the world

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[–] totino 17 years ago

Really Tudor? He wasn't a defender of freedom? What do you call what the Iraqis are getting? They are getting freedom from a genocidal dictator.
You need to grow up and respect our armed service men and women. It doesn't matter whether you agree with Iraq or not. They do indeed protect you, and everyone else in the US. You should be glad that they would be willing to sacrifice themselves for you in a time of war.

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[–] PabloMM 17 years ago

glad to see americans like this. it was about time

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[–] DrBones666 17 years ago

Tudorguy-1: Exactly right!

US soldiers in Iraq are doing nothing to protect the people of the United States. They are fighting for Big Oil and the Neo-Con's wet dream of globalization.

In addition to that, they are generating more insurgents, more Jihadists and more anti-US feelings than Bin Laden could have done with a hundred 9/11's. Saying they are pawns is being polite. They are total idiots. The only heroes in this war are the ones that refused to go.

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[–] Soja0901 18 years ago

hmm I think all of you should also check out the documentary "Why We Fight" if you haven't already done so....*SPOILERS* in the end of that documentary a woman said "I think we fight because basically not enough people are standing up saying, 'I'm not doing this anymore.'"

Soldiers always say that they are only following orders and that it is their job and duty to do the horrors that they do. But seriously....just because you guys are 'infantries' doesn't mean you literally have to act like speechless infants and always follow orders in the first place....you know what is right and wrong.

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[–] mixalot87 18 years ago

The original soldier was simply making a point about how the film simply portrays certain events happening and leaves you to formulate your own opinion. The last three malcontents had to go and (attempt to) make it political with their mindless babble and talk of "empire." If you *beep* followed any of the news, you'd realize that US officials have a timetable for us to be at 1/3 of our strength by next year, and that we're handing over Afghanistan to NATO. Yeah, we're on our way to conquering the known world, that's for sure. You saying you don't owe our service members anything is close minded and rediculous. You realize the military has done/is doing more than fighting in Iraq, don't you? That we wouldn't have a nation without one, from the Revolutionary War to World War II? Please, try and understand that outside the realm of your parent's basement, there exists a world of actual hardship and sacrifice, one in which actual events take place that don't just appear on some website or formulate inside your own empty skulls. I honestly sometimes wish we did live in an ACTUAL oppressive society, where you would truly be robbed of your civil liberties, probably tortured and executed, not because I don't like free speech, but simply so you can see the absurdities of what you are thinking now. Go bitch to a couple of old Russians or Ukranians, who spent years in the gulags, or maybe some Germans who died for the Nazi war machine about being oppressed or dying for nothing. The original poster has something you never will, and that is a life altering experience in which he was pushed to his maximum limits, discovered parts of himself, and built relationships with others that can never be matched or understood by those of us who have never been in combat. Good or bad, this guy has lived more in 1 year over there than you have in your entire lives. I've talked to guys who are back who have more respect for some of the people they fought over there than they do for you; at least they take up arms for what they believed in, whereas you go on a damn internet message board to talk about the "evil American empire." Here's a tip: if it were an empire, and if it were that malacious, you'd all be dead by now, because they wouldn't tolerate you saying such things. Now go back upstairs, I'm sure mommy's finished making you your lunch.

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[–] kenobi76 18 years ago

Be Aware:
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Ronnie_Dobbs 18 years ago

Be Aware:
The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Oh man, that is good stuff. You just graduate from Evergreen?

OK. Let's do this. Its Friday, I ain't got no job :D

1. As opposed to...? Well, this one can be deleted. (-)

2. Human rights? In America humans have a lot of things I'd call "human rights" You're right though, we also have horrible restraints. Why don't I have the right to build a house right where I want, out of anything I can grab? Why can't I just TAKE a woman? Why would I have to pay child support? Why can't I drink beer and drive as fast as I want? Why do I have to use roads? Why is there a 'hunting season'? If I steal, why isn't the owner the one that confronts me? Who are these pigs?...See, this is all crap that stems from 'civilization' I'm with you here man, screw that crap, screw it, screw it. UGH! If you got a plan to make it all go away and we can get into some Road Warrior stuff, I'm listening. (+)

3. Yeah, ok, fine. It's only natural though, especially when its based on truth. Why not hate our enemies together? They do hate ALL of us! Why can't we ALL hate them? But you're right, a lot of the people don't even know the facts and just hate because of the message portrayed by society/gov't/media. It works both ways, plenty are unified against those who are unified! My logic just worked you over! I'll still give you that one. (+)

4. As opposed to having a poor military and instantly being destroyed in this hostile world? k. This one is stupud. (-)

5. Sexism? RAMPANT sexism at that. I don't quite see the USA as oppressing women. The OUTRAGE that is women making something ABSURD like 99 cents to each dollar a man makes. The original writer of this list did cite homosexual marriage as the sole example of sexism, barely touching on the woman's role in such an awfully male dominated world. I also don't think the hot talking point of gay rights is all that important. Sure, the gays will tell you otherwise, thats just a case of me not caring because it offers me absolutely nothing. This is all chosen by the people anyway, and the people have spoken! Spoken by stating they're a nation completely divided! Half the American people want gays to get married, half don't. Not a big issue, not a human rights outrage. Outrageously insignificant really. Sure, gays offer just as much to society as the rest, and since we're OVER-populated we don't need to encourage any more reproduction anyway. Regardless of 'rampant sexism', nearly every girl is now and ALL WILL officially be lesbians soon anyway because of capitalist pigs selling women out to the breaking point (see; girls gone wild). I personally don't think gays not being able to wed really makes a country fascist, if you do you probably couldn't even say the word 'fascist' because your lisp is too strong. Anyway, this is not government related. I'm sorry kenobi, this one just doesn't apply. (-)

6. Controlled Mass Media. Like the internet? Internet being the most massive, so I would assume that would do. Ever heard of ICANN? The internet is actually still basically run by world consensus, and be glad it is, while it is. Plenty of Non-US powers would like this to change. (-)

7. Obsessed with National Security? Not really! Yeah, I guess the news sure talks about it. But talk is cheap, who cares what people talk about in the news, the bottom line is you can walk over from Mexico/Canada nearly anywhere, at anytime. Not very secure. There are plenty of countries with far superior security, and they're not fascists! (-)

8. Religion / Government. Hmmm...Well, ok. Plenty of people who do not believe in any religion, like myself, get along absolutely fine. Sure, I would like to see less religion, of all kinds, in America. I'll give this one to you, you're right, it is outdated. It served its purpose when the world was religious-minded, but religion really is public enemy number one. Without Islam we'd have no terrorists. Without Judaism we'd have... no terrorists. Without Christianity we'd have...a bitchin' pizza party! You got this one (+)

9. Corporate power. Yes, there are seperate laws for corporations. Most of them for liability insurance and tax reasons. You can't tax an LLC at the same rate as some unskilled worker sitting behind a cash register, the business has to be able to grow, and the unskilled worker just has to find a skill/new job. (-)

10. Not like Nazi-Germany. I know you got all of these from a blog, but this one is ridiculous, you got this from someone who read 'Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' and went crazy looking for modern American parallels. If you see problems, it must be in your area, where I am there was a major worker union strike that ended with the employees getting HOOKED UP. I can't give you this one, its too isolated, not anywhere near across the board (-)

11. Intellectuals/Arts. Well, Intellectuals make pointless lists about Fascism and act like its Art. Can't blame anyone but the *beep* artists, and smug fart-sniffing, hippy liberals that are the only ones that still call themselves 'intellectuals' You're obviously not an artist. I play guitar, and I gotta tell you I have a HUGE disdain for guitar, and music. I also have a great love for it. You gotta effin' HATE it while you love it, otherwise it won't work. The great art is always from a tortured soul, give everyone words of encouragement and it would be like painting by numbers. You failed again, but with a name like Kenobi, what could you know about art!? (-)

12. Obsession with crime/punishment? You're judging the world by newspapers again. Everyone wants to hear who is being bad, because they'll feel good that they're doing well. News is printed by a private company, usually run by jews. Anyway, with a good lawyer you can either beat the case, or lower the sentence. But, since you could argue "that's how deep the system runs maaaannn" i'll give it up. (+)

13. Where there is money, there is corruption. Where there was A LOT of money (98/99) and now there's not so much(2001+), there is RAMPANT corruption. I guess all I can say about that one is make sure you're on the side calling the shots, or cry about it. (+)

14. I like this one, I was a victim of it. If Gore won, we'd have some kickass fast internet in the states, free wireless hotspots, and be working toward a unified security infrastructure. But he had a hard-on for censorship in TV and video games...so maybe it was really for the best. I really do hate censorship. Fraudulent elections. All I can say about this one is: Allegedly. :D

So, like where's your blog. I bet you have some totally new ideas to share. I bet you have some really ground-breaking, insightful, and creative opinions. NOT.

What is Fascism but a word? When one has the right to bear arms, free speech, capitalism, in country that has made unparalled strides in equality...how outraged can they really be? It just seems so insignificant, everything on this list.

If you want to take some honest advice, and I advise that you do, when you make a list like this try and shorten it to include only substance. When you have like 4-5 things that are true, but buried in *beep* it makes the whole thing just look like trash. I mean it is trash to begin with, as is what I have written, everything is really just a waste of time. Modern Life is Rubbish, the fact that people like you and I exist is rubbish as well. Ugh. We weren't made for this time, should be frozen or something. But, you. You. I bet you think you're witty, clever, that is the worst part. All you did was paste from a blog, but you probably think you're some sort of philosopher. An intellectual or whatever. I wish there was a way for those like yourself to be able to waste your existence peacefully and NOT have to effing blog about it. And look, you just made ME react very blogger-like! Damn! Screw this, I'm going back to bed.

BTW Do you know who wrote that list originally? I bet you don't. Dr. Lawrence Britt. A self-proclaimed 'political scientist'. With a range of works such as: ...that list (for Free Inquiry magazine) Yeah, that's it. You've posted nearly his entire life's work. A list and a short writeup is all this 'doctor' is good for. True science has no room for politics, political science is as pointless as studying intelligent design. An absolute dead-end for any true scientist that quests for knowledge, instead it is an attempt to massage one's ego. To wallow in opinion. To baste in the glory of self-righteousness. To study something so trivial, and based solely on opinion, is the opposite of science. Real science involves not what you WANT to prove, it is found not in a statement made by careful placement of statistics, it is finding clear answers to clearly defined problems by scientific method and is based on unbiased facts and results.

There will always be plenty of pseudo-intellectualist philosophers like you, for as long as there is the medium in which to convert half-witted ideals into pure self-righteousness.

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[–] Mort & Spunky the awesome cat 18 years ago

"The original soldier was simply making a point about how the film simply portrays certain events happening and leaves you to formulate your own opinion."

Yeah, right. That's why he titled his post "I take it personally" and said that he wishes he could beat up all who oppose his view.

Now, go back to Fox news and become more misinformed.

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[–] no_cash 18 years ago

haha! thats the best you can come up with? what are you a grammer teacher on top of being the ultimate soldier too. what a joke. do you even have an opinion on any movies or are you just here as a troll? ive read your previous posts and all of them are attacks on people and name calling. you have no actual opinions on movies. and im not telling others what to believe for your information, im stating what I believe. its funny that when people have no point they just make stuff up like "g.e.d. flunking ass" you dont know the first thing about me.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Mort & Spunky the awesome cat 18 years ago

If you're a teacher, I hope this sort of attitude isn't what you show your pupils. If so, they probably think you're as much of an idiot as I. As the son of two retired teachers and the grandson of another who between them served our public school system for over a century, I think your disdain for others is abhorrent. If you think that knowing your grammar makes you superior to anyone or gives you license to demean others, you're delusional. I hope you teach in a fundamentalist school. Most of those children are probably lost anyhow.

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[–] pugachev-2 18 years ago

Well, I agree with you this film was open-minded and I would argue open-ended. The irony at the end was the guy who was the most thoughtful and cynical about the war re-enlisted, while the most gung-ho ones wouldn't go back. The other interesting part of the three men is the way they needed the military and the war to validate their lives, in particular Moriarty.

Now the part at the end of you comments where you write you want to "beat your heads" on anyone who wrote disparaging remarks. That is a bit weird. Aren't we fighting for democracy and the right to dissent in Iraq? Or was Pink right and this war is about Money and Oil?

The final point I want to make is that the US Government, in particular the Bush Administration, has a lot to answer for in what has happened to these men and what is probably going to happen to you. I will recommend to you a book on what the British had to do after the Great War when they destroyed the minds of young men also. It is called "Forgotten Lunatics of the Great War." Read it.

If this film does nothing at all it should lead to a debate as to why these men are left to their own devices and not given help in transitioning back to civilian lives. The mental problems that will surface from this war are going to be staggerin. I do not say this rhetorically, but from study of what happened throughout the Great War, in particular.

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[–] Mort & Spunky the awesome cat 18 years ago

You have the audacity to believe that you know something those of us opposed to this war don't? Perhaps we know a few things you don't.

It was a thankless job there because you shouldn't have been there in the first place. You and every other American & Brit sent there has had their lives endangered illegally and without reason. That our opposition to the war is somehow construed as being unpatriotic or against our troops is patently absurd and contrary to anything remotely logical.

I'm older than you. I'm not some naive twerp, nor am I a hippy. I'm educated, thoughtful and keep myself informed listening to/reading NPR, the BBC, New York Times and other sources. Most of my clothes are Brooks Brothers, I drive a Saab and I've vacationed in six countries in the past two years. I come from a blue-blooded Republican Yankee family with over 200 years in Michigan and over another hundred in New York and Massachusetts. I am American middle-class through and through.

We live in a republic where anyone who disrespects another's point of view, unless it incites violence or hatred, should be forced to sit down, shut up and read the Constitution and learn some truths about the history of this country, western civilization and mankind.

With all respect, your mother was dead wrong. Lack of dissent is the death of democracy. Since you bring her up, I bet she wouldn't be proud of your saying "I wish a had the rescources to find each and every one of you hippy little punks, so I could beat your heads in for being so ungrateful to the people who give up everything for this country." If she is, then she has the son she deserves. The unfortunate truth, which is beyond your control or mine, is that you aren't giving up anything for this country being posted in Iraq. You're an unwilling pawn of a corrupt government that has no concern or respect for you.

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