MovieChat Forums > Root of All Evil? (2006) Discussion > Atheists that think Dawkins is a bit of ...

Atheists that think Dawkins is a bit of an ar$ehole....


Am I the only one?

Yes I believe he asks some important questions that encourage people to think, and I too believe that religion is extremely dangerous in the wrong hands, but instead of leaving it there he pushes his facts on people who don't want to listen, pressures them into feeling stupid and attacks their values.

He claims to be an enlightened, intelligent man of science, but time and time again he just seems to me to be nothing but a bully, forcing facts on people who have done nothing but simply chosen to believe a nice story instead of the cold hard facts.

The concept of death is a severely difficult notion to contend with for sentient beings; humans are the only species on Earth that know they are going to die and it can be very difficult to come to terms with. Through random genetic mutation we have become self-aware and with that is an awareness of death.

A lot of people simply don't have the capability to accept an infinite oblivion and the eternal question of what happens when we die has been answered by religion out of necessity over time by a developing sentient race.

As an atheist, I know I am going to die, and that will be that. It's an extremely unsettling thought but one that I have managed to deal with. I certainly don't embrace death, in fact I try not to think about it simply because I'm scared of dying and I know that when I die I won't exist any more. It is almost impossible to comprehend and it is absolutely definitely the original primary reason for religion.

The problem stems from people deciding to use man's fear of death to assert control over him. Extremists and fundamentalists are indeed very dangerous people that can believe so blindly in their faith that they are willing to kill for it.

The immense irony that something spawned from man's fear of dying has caused so much death is really something quite spectacular.

Therefore, while I agree with Dawkins on so many points, how can I justify calling him an ar$ehole?

Because he launches personal attacks on people who don't accept science. Who is he to make that call? How dare he? How dare he tell anyone what to think, feel or believe? We have one life, and we should be entitled to live it the way that would make us happiest, provided we don't hurt others and show respect for the fact that other people have that right too.

It is not okay in my opinion to indoctrinate children into religion; in an ideal world a person should spend his childhood being presented with the rich diversity of cultural beliefs and then be given the opportunity to choose. But it is also not okay to walk up to a person who has done nothing but simply believe in something that isn't true and proceed to attempt to destroy their entire belief system.

Surely it's a person's right to believe whatever they want and if they want to believe that death isn't the end, that their God is waiting for them in eternal paradise, then good for them.

I frequently wish that I could believe in God and a life after death, but unfortunately I am condemned by science to an eternity of oblivion that I can't even comprehend. I am wholeheartedly jealous of those who firmly believe that death isn't the end. Delusional they may be, but they're also happier and more content with the subject of death than I'll ever be.

What kind of person would want to try and convince someone not to be happy?

An ar$ehole.



Thoughts?

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tl:dr
But yes. I think he's an a s s hole

Sorry About My Bad English

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Hi

tl:dr
I actually did take the time to read it.

Although there are things he says I disagree with, I honestly think he does NOT push hard enough. Allowing idiots to continue believing bronze age faerie-tales that promote fear and hatred is exactly why we still have people believing that rubbish. The sooner the human race moves to facts from wishful thinking, the better for everybody, because if we do not make that move, there may be no human race!

-Mex

--

Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved?

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"Am I the only one?"
No, very many have said similar things, for whatever reason.

"but instead of leaving it there"
Why would you ever want to leave it there? Perhaps in a world where religious belief was benign, you could afford such laziness, but I think it's dangerously negligent to simply allow all of the horrors enabled and encouraged by religious fervor to continue. As presumably compassionate people, we NEED to speak out against these atrocities, and we NEED to be the vocal counterweights to the psychotically focused people who would have their religion permanently married to our governments, and who would rather YOUR children remain as ignorant and confused as their children when it comes to certain basic facts of reality.

"He claims to be an enlightened, intelligent man of science"
He's only claimed to be a man of science, as far as I'm aware.

"who have done nothing but simply chosen to believe a nice story instead of the cold hard facts."
Then you, too, believe a nice story. If only religion were that innocuous...

"A lot of people simply don't have the capability"
Now who's insulting the religious? If anything, Dawkins is trying to shake people he sees as intellectual equals, who are entirely capable of coming to grips with simple facts of nature, from their slumber and fog of indoctrinated delusions. Not an easy feat by any measure, but a respectful one, and an important one.

"Extremists and fundamentalists are indeed very dangerous people"
Yes, they are, and you shouldn't forget that.

"Because he launches personal attacks"
Would you care to present some examples?

"Surely it's a person's right to believe whatever they want"
Simple belief is one thing. BEHAVIOR caused by belief is another. You are stuck on the barbs of the arguments. Dawkins and Friends are not railing against religion JUST BECAUSE. It takes a determined kind of ignorance to deny that religious dogma is, has been, and will continue to be responsible for untold human suffering (to say nothing of animals). You should not pardon religion, on the whole, for its crimes simply because the religious people you happen to know are mostly watered-down, civilized versions of their dangerous, "believe or die" brethren elsewhere in time and space. They come from the same stew, and the stew is poisonous. I think that much should be obvious by now.

"I am condemned by science to an eternity of oblivion that I can't even comprehend."
Poor you. God damn science to Hell for doing that to you.

"but they're also happier and more content"
So, in your opinion, it's better to live with a comforting delusion than to come to terms with truth. That makes one of us. And I have to say, your indictment of science in your discontent says more about YOUR inability to adapt than it does to the facts presented by scientists.

"What kind of person would want to try and convince someone not to be happy?"
Yeah, that's not a straw man...Or is it more likely that he wants to live in a better world, and exposing the crimes and absurdities of religion for what they are is an important step in that process? He would be more than willing to allow people their own fantasies if it were not for the ever-present threats of the religious right encroaching into our lives (this Texas textbook nonsense, to name a very recent example), suicidally fervid extremists (look up "suicide bomber" on a news website...every. single. day.), horrific human rights abuses (if you're genuinely unaware of the penal codes in the Islamic theocracies, then I'll just ask you to google it, because the well is too deep)...on and on. I for one have a difficult time in just letting these nightmares take place, and I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror if I condoned this under the umbrella of relativism. No, these are BAD things. The world is MUCH bigger than your pleasant little town, with nice people and unassuming little clergymen. You're privileged to get to throw stones at people fighting for a noble cause, first, for your very SECULAR right to speak freely, but also for the continued existence of people such as Dawkins who are similarly allowed to speak out against prevailing religious authorities. In another time, this may not be the case. Let's hope that that time is only in our past, and NOT in our future.

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Clearly he's reached the end of his rope, the end of his tolerance. He's finished with the "Oh well, they aren't hurting me so I won't bother them" live & let live attitude. He sees that religion *is* hurtful and damaging, and he's had enough. So he's going on the offensive. Therefore, a lot of people, even people who agree with him (e.g. you) are going to be offended by him and call him an "ar$ehole". There's no avoiding that. C'est la vie.

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I too think he's an ar$ehole.

Partially for his provocative character, but more for how he's a figurehead for a social atheist movement of his own creation.

Sayonara, not to be confused with cyanide, which is, of course, goodbye in any language.

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I, an atheist, happen to disagree with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUg-1NCCowc

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I don't think he's an a-hole in the slightest bit. To the contrary, I imagine him to be a very mild-mannered and polite person.

Try to use your imagination a bit. How can you avoid being outspoken when no one you're debating actually listens to you? How many people has Dawkins debated who renounced their religion in spite of all the scientific evidence he presented to the contrary? Religious people don't yield an inch to his arguments in spite of the fact that he's the one holding real, measurable, tangible evidence that defies their reasoning.

I'd go absolutely insane if put in the same situation. If you guys think that makes him an a-hole, you haven't seen anything yet.

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