This documentary is incredibly one sided


There is nothing wrong with credit cards if you use them responsibly and not like a drug addict. There is hardly a person I know besides my parents that do not carry minor to MAJOR credit card debt and do not give it a second thought. I simply cannot understand it that they see those finance charges they are paying every month and just blow it off. I would guess it has been maybe two times in the last 10 years that I ever paid a finance charge for one reason or another and when I saw that finance charge it made me sick.

This anecdote is totally representative of the predominant mindset that goes on in this country every day: A few years ago, I stopped by a friend’s house and they showed me their new DVD surround sound system. I was still using VHS and their system knocked me out. I told them that I am never buying a VHS tape again and I am upgrading to a surround sound system immediately. I bought the speakers within a week or so. The next time I saw them they asked me if I had bought my surround sound system yet. I told them I bought the speakers. The rest will follow over the next two to three months. “What the hell are you going to do with speakers and no system to hook them up to?” I told them that if I buy the whole system in one shot I will have to either pay credit card finance charges or pull money from my savings account and I will not do either. I’ll get the remaining components over the next two to three months. I swear, they looked at me with these totally stunned expressions as if they were just hit over the head. They didn’t even know how to respond.

You can count on one hand the number of times I paid CC finance charges in my life. I use one card, pay it off every month, and picked a card with the best rewards I could find and as a result, I am paid over $200.00 a year to use that one card.

CC companies are the ultimate predators but nobody is forcing you to play. Use them to your advantage.

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As the university professor pointed out these companies were interested in maximizing profit, not minimizing loan default, so they targeted high risk people. And as it turns out these people were naive when it came to credit and likely had other problems too. This is akin to an beer company targeting people with alcohol addiction problems.

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The funds that credit card companies make available has a cost attached to it - be it the interest paid to investors or the salaries of the employees. Like any business, their only goal is to maximize profit. No bank lends to a high risk customer without precautionary measures like risk based rates. The higher rates should dissuade the borrower from revolving.

Credit cards are a valuable source of funds especially during emergencies. But like any other good thing, it can be abused. It is futile and irresponsible to blame the credit card companies for the excesses of the customers.

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Bull$h!t!

The greatest abuse is by the lenders. People are far better off never using credit cards or taking out loans. We're sold the bill of goods that we have to have a good credit rating to function. If you pay for everything in cash, it works against you if you want to rent an apartment, but if you go into debt, you can rent an apartment.

If you stop using credit cards, it lowers your credit score (which happened to me), so you can't get a loan in an emergency. This happened to me recently, and I was glad in the end that we found another way around the emergency, because I don't have to worry about any debts.

The last thing banks want is to have people like me around, because we don't use credit, so we don't represent a profit for them.





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Yes it's very one sided. but don't you worry. Just turn on any TV show and you will see a credit card advertisement. They spend billions of dollars for their side of the story.

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The credit card ads are not the other side of the story, dummy. The point this guy made, and it's a fair one, is that the documentary, like so many documentaries made nowadays, doesn't show the multiple facets to this problem. It simply wants to blame the problem on credit card companies. It doesn't really delve into almost any of these people's lives to discover how they got into debt. I do feel like credit card companies are practicing predatory lending, however, as a rational person, I recognize that predatory lending is only one part of the whole situation. The filmmaker should have been responsible and shown all sides to the problem. Our obsession with having whatever we want now and trying to postpone paying for material goods is the larger problem. It is this problem off of which credit card companies are playing.

Overall, this is a pretty decent documentary (albeit a fear mongering one), but would it have killed the filmmaker to just try and be more fair all around? Credit card companies have a piece of the blame, but so does someone who buys a new car when they can't afford it, or buys new clothes when they can't afford it, or who buys a house they can't afford. When I bought my first home, I was given approval for a mortgage way above what I could afford. Did I go out and buy a 700 thousand dollar home? No, I recognized that I couldn't afford that even though I qualified for it. Maybe if this documentary spent a little time preaching responsibility by the consumer as well as responsibility by the credit card company, we might see some real progress in increasing the solvency of our nation. That said, I also recognize that some of the people in the documentary were victims of predatory lending. But generally, I think it's fair to say that almost all of us could cut down on our purchases if we needed to and could do a bit more saving to avoid debt. I'm just so tired of documentaries being more in the vein of propaganda, where they have a single message and the truth can be damned if it gets in the way, and true documentaries that are fair in their examination of a subject. Far too many people are suckers for "documentaries" that are totally and completely one sided.

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It's not true at all that not using credit cards lowers your credit score. Not HAVING credit cards can lower the score since you won't be establishing credit. It's simple. Have one or two in case of emergency or to use once in a while, then pay off the balance at the end of the month. I rarely use my credit cards. In fact, I have several and only use one of them when I really need to. I pay the balance when the bill arrives and my credit score is fine. I would have to believe there's something else in your credit history that may have helped lower your rating, but simply not using credit cards is not going to do it alone.

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> The last thing banks want is to have people like me around, because we don't use credit, so we don't represent a profit for them.

That is true. But it still comes down to the people who sign on the dotted line. They wouldn't need credit if they didn't live beyond their means.

I mean, I feel a little bit sorry for the lady who has a $4,000 a month mortgage to pay after her husband died, but I also think, "Look lady, sell the house and move into a moderate apartment."

A $4,000 a month payment means about a $500,000 motgage. She's 57 years old and let's figure that her husband died a year or so ago when he was 58. He was about two years from retiring at age 60.

They have been paying the mortgage for ten or so years and they have about $100,000 equity in the house. So its value is about $600,000.

So, put the house up for sale for $550,000, pay off the mortgage, and walk away with $50,000 in cash.

Instead, she holds garage sales and plays the victim for the cameras.


--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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Alien-You probably aren't married, or never had children, wait. There are times when you can't help but use credit cards for mandatory purchases. This was a great documentary, it shows how we are all getting screwed by not only the Credit card companies, but cut to the recent happenings the bail out.

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The point I was making is we have this documentary (one sided) vs their side of the stoy (the billion dollar racket industry) it's not like this movie is going to put them out of bussiness.

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Umm... why should being married or having children be an excuse for making a poor financial decision?

Taking the step to get married or have children implicitly implies you feel yourself ready to take on more responsibilities in your life...

Why should ether of those actions later be turned around as excuses for making irresponsible choices?

I don't get it.

If you're not really ready to get married... don't do it.

If you're not really ready to have kids... don't do it.

If there is a house that looks awesome but you can't afford it... don't buy it.

I don't see where the complications or confusion comes from.

Blame the company that make these financial products available to me?

Doesn't make sense.

I could drive down the street to Walmart and buy a shotgun and blow my brains out with it.

But I don't... because that'd be *beep* stupid!!!

I could sign up for a zero down mortgage on a 200k property that is really only worth 120k... but I don't... because that'd be *beep* stupid!

Somewhere along the line personal responsibility needs to come into play...

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rloker-I mention wife and kids because of control. By yourself you can control mostly everything you do, however once you introduce others into your life things become more complicated. I do believe that people should be responsible for their actions, however sometimes complications arise that are beyond a persons control. We prepare for marriage the best we can, but what if there is a sudden accident and you lose your job and have health care costs? It's not just you, it's providing for your family, maintaining a roof over their heads, keeping your life insurance paid, providing heat, keeping the lights on, these are things that you might do without if alone and money is short. You can tell your kids to brush a thousand times, but take them to the dentist and find out that they might need braces and it may not be covered and suddenly you find yourself in debt, this can't be predicted during conception. To make a long story short, having a family adds additional complications and unpredictability that living alone doesn't.
I am not saying that married people make poor financial decisions or that they are entitled to.
As far as buying that house, yes people should have bought not only what they could have afforded, but people should not have been using their homes on speculation.
As far as having children, that's another story.

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Actually, when you save money and develop a good, long-term financial plan, it is possible to avoid purchasing things on credit. About the only things you should be purchasing on credit should be a house, school expenses, and a car if it's necessary to have one to get back and forth to work.

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Agree -- note the sponsors of the film...ACORN and a few community reinvestment organizations.

Too many documentaries these days present a particular viewpoint, rather than just letting the facts speak for themselves.

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Is that you, Rush Limbaugh?

'Scuse me, but the facts are speaking pretty damn loud. If you step out of your self-righteous bubble you might notice that the world is teetering on economic depression. (Kinda-sorta related to credit.)

Your bootstrap logic is as absurd as religious missionaries preaching abstinence in Africa. Sounds great on radio, but it doesn't actually, you know, work.

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A lot of people seem to be trying to make the point that at some point, personal responsibility needs to come into play.
And it's very true. There are people who spend much more than they need to simply because they want. They want because they're selfish and/or not very responsible.
But what you need to realize is that there's a great number of people who don't know better. They don't know that they shouldn't charge everything to their credit card. They don't know that they're not ready financially to go ahead and buy that new house. etc etc etc. They were never taught how to handle their money correctly, so in many cases, they can't be blamed for their "irresponsible" practices.
Now of course there are a lot of cases where people SHOULD know better, but they choose to ignore what they SHOULD do and do the wrong thing anyways. There are people who are just stupid. But it doesn't change the fact that there are people who just don't know and can't be held 100% accountable for what they're going through.
You guys say that this documentary is one sided, but sometimes you yourselves are failing to acknowledge both sides of the situation.
There are people who spend money on things that they NEED to, and it's somewhat absurd to say that they should pay for everything they need with cash. And when these people fall into debt, they don't have the money to pay off their credit cards. So they put it off and they don't pay, and the situation escalates to the point where there's no solution to their problem.
I think this is the kind of thing that this documentary addresses.

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If you stop using credit cards, it lowers your credit score (which happened to me), so you can't get a loan in an emergency. This happened to me recently, and I was glad in the end that we found another way around the emergency, because I don't have to worry about any debts.


That's strange. I've never heard of anyone with good credit get turned down for a loan. Usually, it's the other way around. I know what you mean when you mention that credit card companies and lenders want to target high risk people, but (the people I knew anyway, even my sister) when they tried to get a loan, their credit wasn't so great, and they got turned down. On the other hand, in 2005, I purchased a laptop for school and got it through financing - my credit was in good standing, and I got approved.


Alien-You probably aren't married, or never had children, wait. There are times when you can't help but use credit cards for mandatory purchases. This was a great documentary, it shows how we are all getting screwed by not only the Credit card companies, but cut to the recent happenings the bail out.


I know you were addressing another poster here, but I wanted to chime in on this comment. I think if you're married and have children that's all the more reason to be cautious of your credit card spending and the things you buy. Does your kid really NEED a teddy bear from Build-A-Bear? I know they're not that expensive, but still. Can't they wait until their birthday or Christmas? Parents need to learn not to be afraid to say "no" to their kids, even though it might make their kid cry for a bit. Kids don't have to have every damn thing they want anyway. Plus, it makes their birthdays or Christmas more exciting for them because they have a new toy or video game to look forward to. My parents would do this with me - If I wanted something, my mom or dad would tell me "wait until your birthday" or "wait until Christmas". I think that's the smart thing to do. My parents would save their money or put a certain amount aside for Christmas and spend a certain amount on every family member, so that way, we all had something - of course my immediate family would have a few more things than say, my neice and nephew, but everyone still got something. It's still possible to give your kids the things they want, and if they have to wait an extra month or two (or three) perhaps they'll appreciate the those things little more.


My Movies: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=27274808

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The problem is, as was mentioned in the documentary, people are using credit to try to keep their electric on. They can't afford the basics. After I pay my rent, utilities, car payment and car ins. I have $44.25 a week to live on. My hours got guy to 30 due to low sales. I can understand how some people get into credit card debt there is only so much mac and cheese one person can eat. I don't have a credit card and will never have one again. I've got caught in the cash advance nightmare as well. People assume everyone in credit card debt are purchasing big ticket items, but most of the people I know use them to try to keep the lights on or food on the table.
The credit card companies target people who will be stuck in minimum payment hell. I am so thankful that I am not under their thumb. Credit cards can be good if you're someone who has the means to pay them off every month, but if you can do that why not just use a freaking debit card it's the same thing. Debit cards have rendered credit cards pointless in my opinion.
When I applied for my car loan the loan officer said "You're credit score is ok, but it would be higher if you had some credit cards." I basically had no credit history so my score was low.

"Do not call the tortoise unworthy because she is not something else" -Whitman

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You don't need credit to keep the electricity on. I've survived on extremely low wages. I managed to pay all the bills and set money aside in savings. I basically gave up spending money on anything that wasn't absolutely essential. The problem is that most people aren't willing to do that. Unfortunately, we've developed this mindset that credit is an acceptable thing to turn to in an emergency. It' really isn't. This is how people get in over their heads. You should being saving money ahead of time to pay for emergency items.

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puzzow-good for you, you probably live by yourself, you probably aren't married don't have children and all of the additional living expenses that this can cause.
When I was young I could stream line my budget as well, but as you get older there are things that you have to have, do you have life insurance premiums? Do you have regular doctor visits? When was the last time you went to the doctor? Having one mouth to feed doesn't compare to feeding four. Prices at the supermarket have gone up dramatically.
If you have a family and you lose hours, or you lose your job or if you worked for GM and you lost your pension; there is a big difference. It's amazing that in spite of all of the TARP we are all worse off except for the bankers.
Record profits for Goldman Sachs and more people will lose their homes.
They gave a former Goldman Sachs employee carte blanche and NOW they are asking questions of wrong doing?
Look at how the BofA deal was handled.
Your absolutely right about saving money for the future, so that the banks can take MORE in fees!
The amount of revenue that banks have made in fees the last 6 years has doubled. If memory serves me from about 10 billion to over 20 billion dollars.


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I've got a wife and kids and I don't have any of these problems. You know why? I save money. I don't buy things I can't afford. Then if there are unexpected costs that arise, I am prepared for them.

"Your absolutely right about saving money for the future, so that the banks can take MORE in fees! "

This shows you are more interested in politicizing the issue than actually addressing it. I save money for the future and consequently, my bank never takes anything in fees. I haven't paid a fee to my bank in ten years. The only people who pay fees to their banks are people who are not spending responsibly. If you had half a brain, you wouldn't write such idiotic statements.

And as for this comment by Emma emlu:

"But what you need to realize is that there's a great number of people who don't know better. They don't know that they shouldn't charge everything to their credit card. They don't know that they're not ready financially to go ahead and buy that new house. etc etc etc. They were never taught how to handle their money correctly, so in many cases, they can't be blamed for their "irresponsible" practices. "

What braindead people to you hang out with? This kind of apologetic nonsense is only spouted by fools. "They didn't know better." "They were raised that way." Give me a break. Everyone understands the concept of money and how you need it to buy something. I supposed some rapists "don't know any better." And some murderers too.

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Well GOD BLESS YOU. Do you feel good about yourself insulting others you lowlife? You completely missed my statements and YES it is a political issue especially when the Government is involved, not by my choice by by their choice, you have heard of TARP? You did pay TARP, do you realize that MR Perfect? That was OUR money which we all will pay in higher taxes across the board. No matter where you live or who you are-except if you belong to the "club".
Congratulations for you- you haven't lost your job, you haven't had an unfortunate unexpected turn of events, be thankful, it can happen, it HAS happened, to better prepared people than you MR PERFECT. I am a strong advocate of savings, I have TWO SAVINGS acounts myself in addition to 401k plan so don't preach to me.
Savings can VANISH, no matter how prepared you are Maybe you should try to read a newspaper now and then.
Why is the Congress involved in the Credit Card industry if it is so fair to the consumer?
Why were their bail outs? Why is executive pay under scrutiny?

In the long run who will pay for all of it?

Wake UP!

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Just a follow up to my previous.
Chris Dodd and all those members of Congress who were given the VIP treatment on mortgages congratualtions, you have proved what I firmly believe that there are two clubs in America.
How can anyone even believe that anything is even remotely fair to the consumer?

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Hello everyone. Wow this comment and the one before it really hit a cord. I agree from personal experience because I know other countries don't and can't spend above their means. That is one of the reasons why I love America because for the people that have money (or at least enough of it, middle-middle class or higher) it sure beats the hell out of the latter. I am Chinese American and had a chance to live in China for a year and a majority of those people are poor by American standards but quite frankly have food, shelter and clothes. They just don't spend like we do. I also looked down upon their life as WTF?! I don't want to live like them but I also don't spend as much as your "average American in debt" either. People in China can make like 1000 rmb ($152 USD) a month and save like 800 of it. That's either will power or they were some how taught something Americans weren't. Needless to say I am still back in America NOT living like a common Chinese native YET also NOT in ANY debt like you're average American. I really wish the people who are not educated with financing would get some free class in budgeting or some kind of COMMON SENSE SPENDING ETHICS but yeah, to each their own?

BUT what I will say is that damn, compared to China there are some things that are really inflated in the good ol US of A. Monthly cell phone bills, cable and internet but once again these things are NOT a necessity... but some how these things seem to be as important as air... keeping with the Jones kind of thing.

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I totally agree. Also, a little focus on the real problem - why people are living so hand to mouth. Like the professor pointed out, our basic expenses are an increasing portion of our income over the last generation. That is the problem.

We need to refocus on basic home economics in school again so people understand that at 25% interest, you are never going to pay anything off making minimum payments.

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...And another thing - the whole documentary gets you all worked up, but then it just ends. Well, how about a look at what we can do to fix this problem?

Also, I would love to see how the Vegas realtor is doing. I have to imagine she has been foreclosed upon by now.

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Several people here have commented on using credit responsibly. The problem that exists is that is easy for people to talk about how they are responsible with money, but where would someone who has never been taught about how to be financially responsible? There is no education for a majority of americans. The only ones most people see offering any advice is the same ones selling the products. The quickest example I can point to is the college campuses with tables set up with credit card applications for incoming students.

Parents often are poor examples, or fail to educate their kids about money, high schools do not offer any personal finance classes, while I'm not sure, I doubt colleges make the classes mandatory, and even if they did, if a student signs up for a credit card, they have probably made use of it.

So, where do most young people learn about credit, how it works, and how to properly use it?

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Toys have credit card scanners for goodness sake! It's embedded in our brains. It's was TOO easy and lots of us have suffered. Now comes the payback. What is puzzling is the double standard. Those in the "club" get a bail out. The rest of us get screwed.

Chase, the most soulless of the bunch got $25 billion because it COULD NOT manage it's debt correctly. The same for CITI Group. How is this fair?

Bottom line if you are in debt get out of it as fast as you can.
If you are not in debt don't do it. the rules of the game have changed dramatically.

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Parents, but apparently that is self defeating if your parents also don't know thus making it a bad trickle down effect resulting in generations of Americans not knowing how to spend... guess the ones that learned from their parents were the lucky rare, few and far in between. I am one of those and I almost can't understand otherwise but I can relate. I am rational but that's because it's how I was taught, what I've noticed, observed from my parents and this saving/spending mentality was embedded into me from an early age... Classes in budgeting and practical life matters would be a nice addition to our education system but it's not. It's only left to the parents or if you're lucky, maybe an influential friend... or Dr. Phil and SELF HELP books. =( Geeze, help us all...

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This isn't a documentary, it's demagoguery. Ironic that the predatory behavior demonized in the film is utilized by the film makers, whose target audience seems to be collective ignorance. Further ironic how these hitjobs always preach about the unfairness of it all, then fail to offer both sides of the story.

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Nothing wrong with credit? Did you watch the film? The system is predatory, taking advantage of the uneducated, aged, and mentally challenged even. The big institutions fund the predatory cheque cashing services that take advantage of poorer and uneducated people by using even more exorbitant lending rates, up to 60 percent. (These are being challenged in Canada. They exist here, too, up to 60% annual rate, when fees are included.) It invades privacy. Of course participates in the usual bribing of politicians that is the current American way.

The two mothers whose children committed suicide after getting buried in credit card debt at a young age perhaps should have looked into what was going on with credit cards on the campuses. They said they assumed the kids couldn't get cards because they didn't have jobs. They might have thought, hmm, why are these companies here trying to sign students, most of whom don't have jobs? But they did not. They assumed the rules hadn't changed. A mistake that we have all made at times in different areas, I expect, and perhaps could have been underlined somewhat in the film for educational purposes.

I agree that the lady with the big house should have sold it when her husband died as soon as she realized she couldn't pay for it, and stop obsessing about her plates and garage sale. That was a bit pathetic. And not addressed explicitly in the film. It had a lot of great information, but could have been more educational for those who have poor borrowing habits. Why basic consumer math and numeracy skills aren't taught to EVERYONE in public school, I cannot comprehend.

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That point is made in the film. The concern is credit being extended to those who can't afford it, which is done deliberately in order to hook people in debt for life.

I don't think it's particularly one-sided, but it also isn't obliged to be. It's focussing attention on a real problem regardless of what positive elements there may be to the financing industry.


"I'll book you. I'll book you on something. I'll find something in the book to book you on."

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