MovieChat Forums > Maxed Out: Hard Times, Easy Credit and the Era of Predatory Lenders (2006) Discussion > Had me, then lost me

Had me, then lost me

posted 16 years ago by tackman
13 replies | jump to latest

This movie started out pretty well, it really did. I am a listener of the talk show host, Dave Ramsey, that they had on there; and have learned the lessons of my youth and, slowly but surely, am crawling out of the credit hole that I am in. I know that credit card companies are leeches and will suck as much as they can. That was what the first part brought out.

But then it turned upside down on itself.

Where is the responsibility for these people. Definitely not them, let's blame Big Credit like we do Big Oil every time something goes bad.

Like the woman facing foreclosure after her husband died a while back. Was the husband responsibile enough to have life insurance? Didn't seem like it. What about the lady, was she responsible enough to know that she couldn't make payments. No, she relied too much on emotion about having to keep the house. It must be the mortgage company's fault her husband died, right? She could have made a sale when she knew she couldn't keep up payments, but heaven forbid she pay for her irresponsibility.

The movie plays on emotion so much that that is all you can base your opinion of Big Credit on.

Please rely on facts and not emotion!!!

[–] bbagnall 16 years ago

What amazes me are these idiots who get themselves into debt and then blame everyone else. Take that woman who lost her husband, then had trouble making house payments. Here are her options:
A) Sell house, move to smaller place you can afford.
B) Make payments using an endless number of credit cards, eventually lose your house then sob to the camera how unfair it all is.

Like, come on! What did she think was going to happen?

[–] movielover35 16 years ago

You both make good points, however, are you aware most of this "money" which is "owed" NEVER EXISTED? They "loan" you nothing, and then you feel guilty for not working hard to pay it back? They "loan" you nothing and charge you interest on it, but you are irresponsible for not repaying in a timely fashion?

The glaring flaw in this documentary is it doesn't delve deep enough into the nature of banking and credit. People think this money they are "borrowing" is being taken from some old lady's savings account, and then "loaned" to them, but that IS NOT how it works.

The vast majority of money which is lent to people is NOTHING more than a ledger enter on a computer screen somewhere.

Wrap your brain around this if you can...those two young adults who committed suicide over about $12,000 in credit card debt, did so over money which WASN'T REAL, except for that it appears on their statement.

The fractional-reserve banking system is the BIGGEST FRAUD IN THE WORLD! This guy explains it well in layman's terms...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnCjYagqtMo

[–] frankzappayay 16 years ago

Just because the "money doesn't exist" doesn't mean it shouldn't be paid back though. The money DOES exist, it just isn't in a physical form. Even money you have in physical form (notes and coins) isn't actually of any value either. All money is, is an I Owe You. The money itself is worth nothing, it's paper and cheap copper etc. but it signifies money.

So people who are in debt or who have borrowed money or whatever, they still owe, and they should still pay back. Why should they get a free ride? You and I don't get a free ride.. They have 12k credit card debt and it isn't being taken from an old lady's savings account directly, but indirectly it is. And if that means its ok to take it, then I could go and steal a car from a showroom. It's not going to affect any old ladies, so does that mean it's ok?

It's sad people would kill themselves over debt, and I have sympathy for people ending up in debt, especially considering how all these evil corporations coerce people to spend money they don't have and they make it so easy and so attractive, and yet they would happily break your legs to get that money back off you.. But still... that is the way the world works. People should realise that and take responsibility for themselves. You have to be a dumb idiot to not realise that a credit card is not your money. It is money that is loaned to you. Use a debit card instead. Then it's your own money you are dealing with, and if you overspend, you run out of money and the card will stop working. That way you never end up in debt to anyone. If you spend on a credit card, you need to pay that back and there are NO excuses. Where that money comes from, is pooled, and whether it exists in physical form or not, is completely irrelevant.

[–] SJ123 16 years ago

It's easy to villify these people, and that's exactly what corporate America wants. They want the majority of the poulous to point and laugh at the inane individuals who can't control themselves. However, we have to take a closer look. None of these people said at any point that it wasn't their fault. The point is not simply that people get into debt, it's how easy and accessible it is to get into that kind of debt and how one mistake can lead to a lifetime of indentured servitude to the corporation.

When credit card companies are sending credit applications to the infirmed (like the handicapped women in the film) or the dead (like the 2 teenagers who committed suicide) there is a problem. When those self same companies are successfully lobbying Congress to remove bankruptcy protections so they do not have to realize the costs of mistakenly backing suspect individuals, then we really have to look at what's going on in America.

The economist at end was correct. We are heading down a path that is going to result in 2 America's. A small majority that have what they need and more, and a large majority that's working day to day to pay off interest on debt. That majority are eventually going to grow desperate enough to seek out a solution that's not going to be condusive to the continuation of the paradigm and if we're not careful (and we've already established that we're not) society is going to go through an enormous amount of unrest. My prediction is 50 years unless something is done.

[–] JoferJeff 16 years ago

People can say no to credit offers. Nobody forced them to send in the application, get the card and start spending. They spent too much money. Boo Hoo. It sounds harsh, but there are people to really feel sorry for, and then there are some who were just plain irresponsible.

Dont know whats in your mortgage? READ IT!!!!!!!

[–] lanative 16 years ago

The same people who cant say no to credit card offers are also probably the same ones who cant say no to cheating on their spouse (or drugs, alcohol, gambling, overeating, or any other so-called "sin") so it comes down to self control. Sure, some people are more naive and gullable, but too much of anything will catch up with you eventually. You live, you learn.

[–] waynebigguns 16 years ago

It's not about giving them a free ride. It's about giving them a break. Or a second chance. It's what decent people do to eachother, and it's what a decent society should be all about.

Instead we let people be enslaved for making the mistake of not being 100% responsible all their lives.

[–] tapalmer99 16 years ago

Lenders are in the business of making money. That's it. People who blame them for sending applications when they can't afford it, have the choice to NOT use the credit. They send out millions of applications. If they get to infirmed, dead, homeless, poor,... so be it. They are in business. It is still a person's CHOICE to use the credit!

[–] Jonas-14 16 years ago

The (unintentionally) funniest part of the movie is where the credit advocate guy is visiting the older black woman who, after being foreclosed upon after failing to make payments, is now receiving a signature loan offer from that same bank (which of course would be denied by underwriting, if she actually applied - the fine print always subject to credit approval - something the movie by sleight of hand doesn't point out). He brings it up as a joke, but she actually looks interested and ready to make the same mistake again, signing on the dotted line to get something good now, without any interest in or knowledge of the later consequences.

[–] Arvin-G-Borkar 8 years ago

The business has a choice to be a bit more ethical in making money.

THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR. COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS HERE!!!

[–] ThinkTwice516 16 years ago

I think that you're comment ignores the point that these credit card companies prey on those who are least able to make payments. I think that its criminal that we force kids to learn about earth science (for example . . . you can fill in your own B.S. class that you took in High School and never used again) and do not teach high school age children about the responsible use of credit and consumer economics. These companies go after college students, the poor, and others who are ignorant of the consequences of what their actions are until they are up to their necks in debt.

The fact of the matter is many people can't afford life insurance, they can't afford health insurance, they have to decide whether to pay for food or medication. What alternative do these people have?

While I agree that people should take responsibilty for their own actions and that the mortgage industry and credit card industry is not a surrogate welfare system to help out the poor, the fact is that these companies exploit the weakest and poorest members of society and in the end we all pay the price. Do you think that its a coincidence that all your credit card companies are located in South Dakota or Delaware? Its because these states have no industry, so they relaxed their usury laws and allowed credit card companies to charge exhorbanent amounts of interest. I'm from NY, if I charged the rates that these companies charged I would be arrested and dubbed a loan shark.

Besides, I don't think the point of showing that woman with the dead husband was to chastise the mortgage company, but rather to show how debt can destroy a persons life and push them to the verge of suicide. It saddens me to think of the poor college kid with $12,000 worth of debt that killed himself . . . $12,000 is not a lot of money and he surely could have gotten out of debt if he learned to become responsible. However, the bottom line is that there is a large emotional toll that indebtedness takes on people. I think that a statistical analysis of american debt without showing the human side would be a much less compelling movie.

Finally, take all information you get from a documentary like this with a huge grain of salt. The film maker clearly had an agenda and keep that in mind when watching this film. An excellent book on this topic is "The two-income trap" by Prof. Warren (who appeared in the movie).

[–] jnatch 16 years ago

The lady also used cash advances to pay her mortgage which I found shocking.
But overall this is not a story about that, a film cant be about everything at once. Big credit IS a serious predator and a serious problem. It needs to be fixed, it needs to be examined, it needs to be discussed. This is despite the fact that personal responsibility (the new catch phrase of the right) IS something that is a valid problem as well.

[–] imzadi35 16 years ago

Yeah I think people are focusing on the wrong part of this story. It's not that people got in debt, it's the bank's practices and how they make sure that they own you forever. And the piece about reversal of incorrectly reported data is right. I had a similar issue and finally got a lawyer to fix it. But the difference is that I could afford it and some of these people can't. And even then it still took me more than a year to get it all straight.

The piece about college campuses has already been blown wide and hopefully parents are more involved in their children's spending practices. Again, I was a lucky kid. I had scholarships for tuition and books, I worked summers to pay for room and board and my parents gave me a thousand bucks a semester. When I saw all the tables set up on campus, I asked my parents about it and they said to wait until I was a junior to get one and then i'd use it for things I could pay off to build my credit. I never needed it to pay for anything huge. But I had friends that used them to pay for everything. Back then, this story wasn't brought to light.