I cant wait to see this film. Everysingle person is a different set of circumstances in terms of how they came to be when it comes to debt. The #1 common trait I see in all people in severe debt is that they cant think more then a day ahead in life. They have zero anticipation of what may come up.
shareI got into a lot of credit debt when I was in my late 20's. i had four cards with $5000 limits! Way too much for a young guy just learning to be out in the real world. Honestly, it was anightmare paying those down. I had to call the companies and bag for a payment plan that would work. I now have exactly one card and never use it unless it's an emergency.
I agree that it's only your fault for oversepnding on needless crap, but the rates are inansely high and it does seem almost as if they WANT to get you into a bind. I was using my card to buy groceries and junk I can't even recall. We live in a society of GROSS excess and a new suburban class....the "in debt up to my eyeballs to impress friends and neighbors" class. From baby strollers with 100 gadgets selling for hundreds of dollars, to minivan DVD players further eroding our children's attention spans, it's all about the "suburban lifestyle" show. I hope this country doesn't explode financially like it did in the late 20's and 30's.
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I think that's pretty much guaranteed if you don't already consider it exploding financially. The dollar is terrible.
sharecredit card companies sometimes pull scams. they put you on some sort of plan and make you over your limit then they charge a ridiculous amount to get you under the limit while charging some extra *beep* this country and its system is a *beep* scam. not to mention college and university debt. now that is a real bitch
sharei hear u, i wish i could return my degree and get my money back. dumb ass higher learning is a sham and a half.
shareI REFUSE to get a credit card. I only use cash and money orders. I don't trust banks either.
This was Ice.
I also used to be a debt collector a few years ago before I gave it up due to guilt and a feeling that I had no business telling people how to spend their money when I was just in as much debt as they were. If you can help it, never take a collection job. Trust me on this.
In any event, the whole finance and credit system is seriously messed up as is the debt to income ratio in the United States in general. I can tell you for a fact that these scams and credit tricks the companies use are real and you should avoid going in to credit debt EVER if you don't wish to be pulled in. I could go on probably all night in regards to how to spot them and how each one is bent to drive you into debt and collect interest from you more than the money you've spent on its own. I'll just finish by saying, don't trust debt consolidation companies. The credit companies have them in their back pockets and they are NOT your friend. They merely add to the interest and then get kickbacks from the credit company for bringing you back in.
Okay, Okay, I'm going to stop now before you start labeling me as a conspiracy nut.
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Credit Cards and the banks that issue them (for the most part) are not evil. Credit is a great and useful thing. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO MANAGE YOUR INCOME.
A lot of the problem stems from America's genreal lack of knowledge about how credit works. Due to the harsh consequences of debt/credit mis-management, a lot of folks are gunshy and think that avoiding getting a credit card--using only cash to pay for things--is the answer.
This works fine, of course, until you need to apply for financing when you may not have sufficient cash on hand (like when you want to buy a car or a house). The lending institution would either turn you down out-right or charge a much higher rate--simply due to the lack of credit history which prevents them from getting any idea about your capacity and willingness to pay back debt.
Your points are very valid. It is however hard to believe that the creditors are not TRYING to get you into trouble. The interest rates are astronomical and when a debt goes unpaid, they sell your outstanding balance for pennies on the dollar to a collection agency, which can then take legal action in court to OBTAIN THE FULL BALANCE AND ALL ACCRUED INTEREST (interest which continues to accrus as you pay it off to the collection agency!!!) It is an interesting system. It IS very important to carry credit and credit cards, but you really, really need to beware how and when to use them. The collection agencies to me are by far worse than the creditors...their job is to pay $2000 for a $5000 debt, and then get every penny of that $5000 PLUS interest through court judgements...that's just inhuman.
shareIf you are not in debt and never have been in debt you can't get a loan?That is the most stupid thing I ever heard.
share<If you are not in debt and never have been in debt you can't get a loan?>
It's not necessarily that stupid. If you have no credit history no one has any idea what your repayment habits are. Your repayment history tells the tale better than what you say your income is. It's good to establish credit, especially (for a woman) credit in your maiden name as well as your married name when you get married.
Part of the interest you pay reflects the risk the lender is taking by lending you money. That's why people with bad credit usually can't get a decently low rate on a loan. The risk is assumed to be higher if someone has no prior history. It if were my money I would feel the same way!
I trust I make myself obscure.
To an extent I agree. However nowadays you can't get ahead without that degree.
shareCredit Card Companies are not evil, but thay are not benevolent either. They prey on college students, people who have a history of bad credit cand find it remarkably easy to obtain a high interest credit card. Credit Cards are designed to not pay back the principal balance because people have a tendency to be short sighted and all they see is the minimum payment. IF you had 5000 in debt on one card and paid the minimum payment for 26 years at 25 percent, youd pay it off. you HAVE to pay the principal, not the interest to pay it down and credit cards are designed to keep you paying the high rate. I like so many others got into trouble when I was in college, ringing up a 6K balance that took me years to buy down, I did it and now if I want something I save until I can get it. Its so easy to say, I'll just pay the minimum, and thats the problem, kind of like fast food, its to damn easy.
FCT
O Qua Tangin Wan...
I think it goes back simply to Credit Card companies exploiting their customer's lack of knowledge. The only way we can arm ourselves against them is through education. I wish that High School Seniors were required to take a course on personal finance management before they graduate. That way, when they are subsequently bombarded with credit card applications in their college years, they are so ill-prepared.
shareI don't really see it as exploiting customers and their lack of knowledge. If people choose not to empower themselves with the knowledge needed to manage credit and only think of their immediate wants they are setting themselves up for failure. Everything is spelled out when you get a credit card....you just HAVE to be willing to read it and UNNDERSTAND it. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse when it comes to finace.
share"Everything is spelled out when you get a credit card....you just HAVE to be willing to read it and UNDERSTAND it."
That's precisely my point. Credit card companies provide the details of the contract because it's the right thing to do (and it's required). However, those same companies bank on the fact that the majority of Americans will neither take the time to read it nor understand it--they'll just apply for the card and start buying...that's how easy we (ie the American people) make it for credit card companies to take advantage of us.
They exploit our ignorance... and why not? They want to make money and no one is holding a gun to the consumer's head when the credit application comes in the mail.
"Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse when it comes to finace. "
I'm not saying ignorance is an excuse for getting into a heap of debt. It's just the usual reason. I say, if someone does not care enough to study and understand their finances...then they deserve exatcly what they get.
I only wish our society made debt / credit management education more of a priority.
Yeah, knowing CC companies are in bed w/the government for the sole purpose of inflating their already obscene profits and then say straight-faced and with perceived sincerity that they care for their customers doesn't make them evil in the slightest.
And Big Oil cares about the environment and domestic oil dependency.
And Insurance companies are looking out for us, our well-being, & wellfare.
And Gun companies care about your personal protection and 2nd amendment rights.
And Fast Food companies care about your health & fighting obesity.
And Auto Makers care about the environment & value employees over profits.
And Tobacco Companies feel sorry that their product causes cancer.
And Liquor Companies want you to drink in moderation.
And Internet Companies care about your privacy and haven't put a price on it.
And Energy Companies care about the environment & their employees' futures.
"dumb ass higher learning is a sham and a half."
I'm so glad you said that. I feel the same way. College isn't as much about learning as it is about a company getting your money. They couldn't care less about what you get in return or even if you actually learn anything helpful. It's so very shameful, in my opinion.
Go to a cheap school. It sucks but you do need the piece of paper unless you're starting a business (with whatever savings you managed to scrape together by then) I know it might not be the experience you were seeking and it might not be anything remotely close to an ivy league school or whatever, but all I'm saying is I went to a school on the level of like University of Phoenix, and graduated with a BS and 2.6 GPA and I'm in my 20s, employed since the day I graduated, making 6 digits a year now.
shareMay we ask?
shareReally, is college that bad?
I never went, but I always thought college was supposed to be a blast that helped you get a great job after graduation.
Some years back, I had about $10K in debt, mostly on credit cards. I was doing fine with payments and didn't have more than I could handle going. Then 9/11 happened. I worked in the WTC at the time and lost my job. Suddenly I couldn't pay my bills, and the credit card companies were not willing to help out, surprisingly (for some reason, they seem to have helped with other people - don't know why). Anyway, I ended up with a job that paid less and declared bankruptcy. It wasn't my proudest moment.
These days, my credit is a good portion of the way to being back on track. I have never missed a payment on anything since and have credit cards again. But I didn't appreciate their unwillingness to work with me after 9/11 and I'll always hold it against them.
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This signature is copyrighted and can be yours today for just $14.95! Order today!
What the heck is this movie about
shareIdiots who spend money they think they never have to pay back, and then get soooo sad when they realize that "Im in debt/bankrupt" etc
That's why the credit card comanies are making a killing, because People are STUPID. I only spend what i can afford (and i use only plastic too, i never carry cash)
This is not a black and white issue. The credit card companies will fund a person into debt and then will suddenly cut it off in attempts to make a person default so that they can catch the fees. For instance, it does not matter if a person has paid off their credit cards for years, all the company has to see is that a person has a high blance and they will cut down the credit line (which the person may have had for years) in an attempt to push the person into a default position. The reason for this is that fees and penalties are where the credit companies make money. They may also change the terms with 30 days notice and change an APR to a default level regardless of whether you have defaulted or not. They will of course only do this if they see you are close to a limit. There are any number of scenarios along these lines which target people who have managed their credit well, only to have unexpected changes undermine their plans and simultaneously have the cushion of credit they have worked long and hard to creat and protect pulled out from under them.
There are plenty of people who very surely mismanage their money, but credit companies are certainly out to fleece the consumer for every penny they can (just notice how they can refuse to accept internet payments over the weekend, yet still make your payment date a weekend and also accept "express" payments over the phone and internet on the weekend for a 12 to 15$ fee on what could be a 5$ payment!). In my personal experience, Chase Manhattan is the worst of the bunch. The major points are that yes, people are stupid, but also that there is a difference between legal and ethical in regards to credit companies which needs to be addressed.
See here is the deal - Credit Card Companies are BUILT on collecting interestes, late fees and penalities. If everyone paid thier bills off and didnt pay interest there would not be any credit card companies. Why do you think College kids are targeted by Credit Card companies? Why can a college student, who make little or no income able to get a card with a $5000 limit? Because they KNOW 9 times out of tem whey will collect the debt after the kid defaults and thier parents pay the bill off.
FCT
O Qua Tangin Wan...
knight9831 You can't posibly be as dumb as you appear. What a moron.
shareThis whole way of life we live is a sham. We're puppets in rich/powerful people's games. If you're lucky you work until you're 65 then retire so you can finally for once in your life do what you enjoy and what you were meant to do without having to ask for permission or be afraid of the man, assuming you still have any bit of health left and the money to cover basic expenses.
**** that.
Can't wait to see this movie...
In college walking down the street we were constantly accosted by credit card companies trying to get you to fill out an application for a credit card. They would offer free t-shirts, hats, meals, you name it - just in exchange for filling out an application. "This doesn't commit you to anything, just fill this out and here's your free <fill in the blank>". Three weeks later your credit card arrives in the mail, with the shockingly high credit limit and equally surprising low interest rate.
I fell into this trap once when I was only 18, looking back I can't believe how stupid I was, but hind-site is 20/20. At the time I justified it to myself by saying "I need a credit card so I can start establishing good credit for myself." Bad idea. I don't know how credit card companies can possibly justify giving a credit card to a college student who freely admits to having absolutely no income (I was on scholarship). They told us that we should report our parents income as our income and include our scholarship money as well... unbelievable!
Of course flash forward a year later, the credit card is maxed out and since I was a couple days late on a single payment, that 3% interest rate is now 27.99% The minimum payments don't even make a dent into the balance of the card, but without stable consistent income, there is not a damn thing I can do about it.
Fortunately for me, I didn't accumulate that much debt in this manner (well under $10K) and I was able to pay it all off a couple of years after graduating and getting a job. But I know plenty of people who were drawn into the same gimmick and have now RUINED their credit and have racked up tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in credit card debt.
It is amazing to me that our society allows credit card companies to get away with this. Yes, the blame is ultimately in the hands of the person who ran up the debt, but credit card companies should be held accountable for their slimy tactics of preying on young people with little to know income or experience in handling debt. I mean, we wouldn't allow people to go passing out grenades on a college campus and then say "oh it's your fault you blew yourself up, we didn't make you pull the pin!" so why don't we apply that same logic to credit cards which are literally destroying peoples lives?
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You are full of rage, MovieBuff. Let ME guess...you are lonely, depressed, and hateful. Now as offensive as my assessment of you is, that is how offensive your assessment of people in credit debt is. Relax over there, no one called your mother a whore. Not everyone is as "gifted" as you with credit, and some people (like myself) also find themselves in unexpected financial crises that cause a change in their income.
And to not see that the credit companies and the whole "credit system" as actively seeking to get you, yes even you, into credit trouble is silly. It's the name of the game. You will payback to a collection about 122% of what you originally owed. That's the goal...it's as American as apple pie, sexing your neighbor's wife, and sacrificing family and values for more money.
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Again with the hostility.
Relax, I agree with you to a great extent. But it IS a very carefully directed effort toward getting you to spend money. See all those credit card commercials? Why would you advertise people using credit cards for sodas at a ballpark, or groceries, or shoes? The "responsible" consumer knows to use these cards for emergencies and the occasional necessity.
Anyway, your hostility is very evident in what you say and how you say it. My "unexpected financial crisis" stemmed from helping another person out of a jam, which caused me to run my own credit card debt way up. I never said it was for society or the "evil" creditors to save me from my own downfall. Again, stop taking this personally...I didn't call your grandmom a slut.
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At age 21, you aren't aware of what it is to be an adult, not yet. I agree, you learn by taking lumps, but when it comes to events that will affect my child's entire future, I will do my best to help. "Enabling" a bad conduct is one thing, ignoring a child's dilemma is another. What's done is done...you deal with it and hope she learns
MovieBuff:
First, please go take your medicine. I'll wait.
Better now? OK.
You are missing my point. Re-read my post and actually READ it this time. I am not blaming credit card companies for ME making a mistake. Our society is filled with people who can't take any responsibility for their own actions and who will blame anything and everything on someone else. *I* signed up for the credit card and *I* maxed it out making stupid purchases. I don't put the blame on anyone else and I didn't try to paint myself as an irresponsible child who didn't know any better so stop putting words into my mouth.
All I am saying is that there is something inherently and (I would hope) obviously wrong with credit card companies actively trying to give out credit to people who ADMITTEDLY HAVE NO INCOME. It can take many years to rebound from a bad credit score, it can literally alter your entire life if you screw up your credit at an early age. Do a google search and see how many news stories there are about people in their early 20's who committed suicide as a result of runaway credit card debt.
It's not an issue of legality, a contract is a contract, and when you sign up for a credit card you enter into a contract - you ultimately have nobody to blame but yourself. But THERE IS an obvious issue of ETHICS here. Credit card companies use slimy business tactics to rope people in that obviously SHOULDNT have a credit card, they take great pains to disguise and hide the fees and "gotchas" attached to the account. Their sales people will straight up LIE to get people to sign up for new account so that they can hit their sales quotas!
Companies that operate like this are bad for society on a whole. They actively work to profit off of the misfortune of others, they perpetuate the false idea that "all corporations are evil" which in turn erodes consumer confidence, and worst of all - credit card companies like this are directly hurting the economy. The huge amounts of debt being accumulated by people stuck in an endless cycle of debt will eventually have to be paid by someone.
Guess who that will be? Hint: It won't be the credit card companies.
Yes, people are ultimately responsible for what trouble they get themselves into. But for society to ignore the reasons as to WHY a person does XYZ, not even question whether something shady or immoral is going on, and put their hands over your eyes chanting "not my problem" is absolutely the WORST thing that can be done.
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"You were relating age to ignorance. Simple as that."
Last time I checked young age does come with a bit of ignorance... or did you already know everything at age 12? I'm fairly certain that a 30 year old knows a tad bit more about life, finances, and debt than an 18 year old. I suppose you'll want to see statistics on that right?
"Corporations are "evil" (however you want to define that) and business' profit on the misfortune of others or crushing other competing business (hence destroying peoples lives.)"
Hmm I could have sworn businesses profit on selling goods and services to a market of people willing to exchange their money for said goods and services. And I thought I read somewhere that a corporation is merely a business created by law that existed independent of the existence of its members, but since you obviously know more about everything than all of us then maybe I'm mistaken.
"And what is your solution? Do you have a specific "ethics" charge that would hold up in court? I would like to hear one. Also, a specific charge that ONLY applies to CC companies and not all business? Rather difficult, huh?"
I think that credit card companies, and all businesses for that matter, should follow the same moral and ethical standards that are important to society at large. I would argue that giving credit to someone who you know full well has no means to pay it back, and then designing an intricate system to extract the maximum legal amount of money in fees, penalties, and interest from that person, and then attempt to disguise those pit-falls to the applicant, falls quite clearly into the "not ethical" zone. I think that the vast majority of reasonable people would agree. That's actually pretty simple huh?
"How? Show me the stats. "
How about you stop being lazy and do a google search or *gasp* go to the library? Do some research on whether the skyrocketing amounts of personal debt in the national economy is good or bad, or *maybe* you could just use common sense instead? I'll leave that up to you.
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After reading your other posts on this board I'm now embarrassed that I wasted so much time arguing with a lunatic. It does not matter how rational/logical anything is that's said to you, you are going to respond the same way every time: hate-filled drivel. I'm not sure how you ended up this way but good luck in life, you will need it.
Shame on me for feeding the trolls.
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TheMovieBuff... wow... seriously man, I pity you.
share[deleted]
Uhhhh... this was a somewhat interesting thread until I stumbled on "The-Movie-Buff" drivel. Were you bullied as a child?
"The-Movie-Buff" will be on my ignore list from here on out... /ignore
With regards to "needing" credit.. it's overrated. Americans in particular are taught to live in a credit based world.
How do you get get a mortgage without a credit score? Manual Underwriting. If you want to hop onto Lending Tree and get a ton of mortgage brokers to auto-generate a loan for you... then yeah, you need a credit score. If you have SAVINGS and a JOB and you have PAID YOUR BILLS... you should be a good candidate and any worthwhile lender will manually underwrite a home loan for you.
How do you buy a car without a credit score? Save for it and buy something within your means. Very few people actually do this.
I've dealt with enough credit card companies and lenders in my life to know that they will nickel and dime you mercilessly.
They don't get me anymore. I track my family finances in Quicken (I highly recommend using software like Quicken or Msft Money), I use this software to forecast my balances, and keep track of utility/expense due dates.
Once you track where your money is going for a couple of months and see where everything is going, come up with a monthly budget. Figure out how to live within your means and make an effort to pay off any debt you may have accrued.
Don't live with debt. Most people would be amazed at how well they would actually be living if they didn't have any debt.
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Hey Movie Buff-
This is called USURY and its been around for a very long time. Benefitting off of others misfortune ( and causing more in many cases) is a unethical way of doing business though I will grant you that that is how it is done in the US nowadays (healthcare, anyone?).
Credit card companies are no more than loan sharks. It is remarkably huge now, though it has only been in existence since the 40's. Watch Frontline's great show on Credit Cards and their history. It used to be illegal to charge more than 5% interest. It really amounts to extortion in that it creates a debt that did not exist (in the case of huge interest rates based upon being late on ANOTHER UNRELATED card or payment or even credit score inquiries by another card company) to justify punative demands for money.
Extortion
Ususry
Misrepresentation
Sounds pretty unethical to me, if not illegal. And the economy did exist before these companies came to be. Economically, uncontrolled inflation is a direct result of the amount of unsecured credit Americans have--just like printing more money reduces the value of said money. I consider rapid inflation to be harmful to the economy. So...this practice is harmful to individuals, harmful to the ecomomy and immoral and maybe illegal. Why are you defending it again? Oh yeah--making money in a shortsighted and exploitative way is good business and every corporation's right as a red blooded American (or Indian, or Hondura or Ecuodorian)organization.
Hrrrrm.
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i worked in collections for years. you do have to make a distintion between original creditors and 3rd party. 3rd party are usually the worst. the company i worked for was one of the largest in the world. the comment that debt consolidation comp's were in there pocket thats not true we refused to work with them and also credit counseling services that were for profit. I know im in the minority about this but i believe most of this is due to our ignorance and greed and not as much due to their being preditors. ive been down and out, been thru bankruptcy and had to rebuild my credit. most of the people i worked with in collections wanted to help the people we talked to we would set tehm on hardship programs etc to stop interest and fees etc. but because of the general stereo type of collectors we 90% of the people we called hungup, cussed us. im not saying all credit card companies are good but our ignorance and greed is what has brought this and only by educating ourselves and our children can we eliminate this. yelling, finger pointing, passing laws does nothing unless we educate.
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