Why Leonard slaps Heather.. - Starting Out in the Evening Discussion

[–] sanda_china 16 years ago

Because she lied to him. She told him he would recover, his work would be published and her thesis would revive his name. She just tried to be nice by giving him false hope. Both Schiller and Heather knew that she just lied to comfort him. Schiller much prefered her to be honest and cut the bullsh*t.

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[–] Movie-Jay 16 years ago

I don't think it has to do with her lying; I think it has everything to do with the fact that she's killing him with her idealism of him. He doesn't want that, plus I think he feels very ashamed at having her watch him deteriorate. He painfully does what he has to do to free her and himself. And it brings us a deeper lesson to the kind of freedom they were discussing earlier on when she asked him about the freedom he gives the characters that he writes: she finds that romantic while he sees it at a more level gaze, at the intersection where freedom and sacrifice meet.

He does what he has to do, and then she does, too.

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[–] jec76 16 years ago

The question is not "Why did Leonard slap Heather?" The question is "Why didn't Leonard slap Heather sooner?"

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[–] JaneRochester 16 years ago

Jec76: lol! I actually started to like her maybe a bit - I thought she'd somehow redeem herself towards the end. I didn't completely hate her, but I definitely didn't love her.

I think a slap was maybe a bit too harsh, and I thought maybe because Schiller is dealing with so much turmoil in his life at that point might have really been the catalyst for his action. I actually thought it was a bit out of character for him, but then again, he just went through a crisis.

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[–] poikikki 16 years ago

i think he slapped her, because she obviously lied to him in saying that she believes his next book is going to be his best one.
this is a huge lie after she wrote in her thesis that already his last two books didn't really struck a chord with her, because they were lacking the autobiographical reference and therefor weren't as sincere as his other ones as she told the publisher of the literary magazine at the bar.
she said she thought that he had written himself out after his first two novels and after the death of his wife, so how can she really believe that his last book is going to be hist best one ?
she just said that to make him feel good.
she would also not have said that if he were younger or before he had the stroke and he was very aware of that. so in saying that she insulted him/his intelligence.

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[–] paultagonist 16 years ago

Eeeeexactly.

The real trick to life is not to be in the know, but to be in the mystery. -Fred Alan Wolf

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[–] jgl2003 16 years ago

I saw it as Poikikki did. Leonard knew she was not being truthful when she said his next novel would be his best or good or however she put it. He didn't need her blowing smoke up his skirt and saw it as cheapening the relationship he thought they had evolved.

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[–] jwjordan100 16 years ago

I agree that he slaps her in response to her patronizing him. Remember the conversation they had earlier in which she argued that neither of them deserved any special consideration as a result of their respective ages. Now she's insulting him by doing exactly that--giving him condescendingly kind words simply because he's old and ailing. He gets it right away and is offended both by her insult to him and by her failure to be true to the ideals she so strenuously professed to hold dear.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] dbeane 10 years ago

i think he slapped her, because she obviously lied to him in saying that she believes his next book is going to be his best one.
this is a huge lie...

Amen.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] aajay 16 years ago

....he's old, he's sick and he's humiliated that he saw her like that. He knows that it's pity she now feels for him as she sees that he is "old". This is a way to put an end to a relationship that can only further deteriorate. the pretense is gone. In the end, it's always "the next of kin" who is looked to. What she wrote is less of a factor.

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[–] undertheskin23 16 years ago

I thought he slapped her to shake her a little bit. He was perfectly aware and resigned to the fact that he's aging and his best times are not ahead of him. Heather is still optimistic. I think he realizes that her optimism, her idealism is not put on, that the girl might just be that young and naive about things. He just wants to write his book in peace, without this restless creature egging him on to take on the literary world again.

i walked in beauty too, till i met you

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[–] malachidjl 16 years ago

I don't think Leonard slapped her because of her false promises. I think Leonard realized that she was toying with his emotions by flirting and pretending she was attracted to him only to get deeper into his mind for the purposes of her thesis. I think Leonard finally falls for, tries to kiss her and she walked away. Near the end she's finished her thesis and becomes more distant from Leonard.

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[–] mjhartley 16 years ago

Re: once she finished her thesis, she no longer needed him. Callous. The slap was long overdue but I think it was due to the lie and the pity after his stroke.

I felt that immediately after he gave her his notes on her thesis, she was done with him. She was very insensitive to the fact that, with someone of his generation, he would interpret her sleeping with him as the beginning of something intimate. To her, on the other hand, it was just another hookup - or rather, something for her to experience and maybe later write about.

I wanted Casey to discuss the later book with her and Leonard - because he obviously got it while Heather didn't. I'm thinking that this will come in the future, hopefully before Leonard does die - and hopefully when he has finished this last book, which he has started over.

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[–] jec76 16 years ago

I would love to see a sequel. Actually Heather Wolfe is featured in a later Morton book, Window Across the River. So you think they actually did it?

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[–] piddas 16 years ago

I think Leonard got upset with her because it became apparent to him that she was´nt in love with him but rather the image of him she got from his books.

Notice how distant she was the day after they made love when they were at the restaurant, he acted like he was in love with her, kissing her, recommending books etc. Her actions made it quite obvious that she was not.
After she rejected him, he had his stroke, the next time they talk is when he slaps her.
It was she who tried to convince him to dare to feel once again like he felt with his wife and so he did, and was rejected.

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[–] Limeginger 16 years ago

Bingo.

After they sleep together she clearly told Leonard she wouldn't be in touch with him for awhile since she'd be writing her thesis. True enough...but we all know if she'd had strong feelings for Leonard weeks wouldn't have gone by before they spoke or saw each other again. We know that, but he doesn't. He takes it at face value. He's finally open, hopeful, and "glowing," having connected with a woman after 30 years.

When she arrives at the restaurant it's abundantly apparent how excited, happy, and nervous he is. The way anyone would be after sleeping with someone and anticipating What's Next? But she's casual, self-contained, clearly not seeing herself as his "date." Clearly hasn't been pining for him since they last saw (and slept with) each other. When the waiter comes and asks how they are, eying her like an attractive peer, Leonard starts to assert himself, saying "We're fine this evening," making it known they're *together,* but Heather doesn't acknowledge that in any way, looking down at the menu, and when the waiter asks what they'd like, Leonard starts to respond, and she's oblivious, self-centered, and starts talking to the waiter about the beer menu, staring him straight in the eye, smiling and holding his gaze, one micron from flirting.

In contrast, earlier on, when the two of them were out together, Heather hung on Leonard's every word, demurring to him and his old school ways, letting him take the lead. But in this meeting she may even have picked the restaurant; it seemed the waiter might recognize her; as well as its simply being a more hip and less formal kind of restaurant. She's in her comfort zone. She's not focused on Leonard all that much.

And when he gave her the key to his apartment her response was correct "on paper," but rang emotionally false, like some line she'd write someday when recounting that moment: "This is very much an honor." And her only half listening when he shared his opinions about literary criticism--and firing back some slightly crass, cavalier inanity (of the quality you'd share with a grad school friend, over a pint, not a literary genius) about not giving up on literary criticism herself cuz it'll give her a good excuse to keep reading.

Not to mention her leaving behind the books, he'd carefully selected for her, when she left his apartment. And then dropping out of sight once she had his comments on her thesis in hand.

He slapped her because of all of that -- as well as in that moment of treacly cheerleading she was being facile, fatuous, and disingenuous -- not treating him with dignity or respect, patronizing him as you would an old imbecile, or a fretful child, and certainly not acknowledging that they'd been lovers (especially after so aggressively pursuing him).

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[–] catherineursula 15 years ago

Limeginger, I agree 100% with what you wrote so eloquently!! Well done and Bravo!!

I believe she used Leonard when she knew he was an extremely private (and perhaps very vulnerable and insecure) man with strict personal boundaries. I saw her as a manipulator, slowly luring and seducing him, slowly building his trust, only to serve her own good and then break his heart in the end when she finally had all she needed for her thesis.

Self-centred from the beginning, as many others suggested, she should have been slapped much sooner.

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[–] mijleh 15 years ago

Bravo, you summed it up wonderfully! Thanks for breaking it down so well, especially the interplay at the restaurant. I was frustrated with her character being so icky/flirty during the really uncomfortable fingers-in-the-honey scene (gross!) and her 'can we just lie down' stuff, and then being so cold to him later. Thanks again for your perception!

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[–] chancellorpink 14 years ago

Yes, Limeginger nailed it. The only thing left out was how when he had the stroke, she vanished. She apparently didn't visit with him until dropping by with the flowers much later. According to his daughter, it had been at least a month.

In the end, she was using him, just feeding the fantasy in her head as well as her own writing career. But, as he put it, she gave an old man some attention in the process, and, as the ending implies, just might have been the impetus for a new novel.

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[–] Willie-12 11 years ago

Limeginger...Absolutely awesome analysis. I was trying to think about how I would respond to this question (if anyone is even discussing it anymore after all this time). But after I ran across your post there's nothing more that needs to be said. Man...after your explanation, I wanted to slap the crap out of Heather too.

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[–] dbeane 10 years ago

He slapped her because of all of that -- as well as in that moment of treacly cheerleading she was being facile, fatuous, and disingenuous -- not treating him with dignity or respect, patronizing him as you would an old imbecile, or a fretful child, and certainly not acknowledging that they'd been lovers (especially after so aggressively pursuing him).

Amen again - even more so this time.

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[–] JaneRochester 16 years ago

I think that Heather may be the type of person who latches on to people she admires. I wonder if she's done this to other writers? We never really know about her personal life - it's mostly from Leonard's perspective.

I think that maybe he did come to a realization after his medical crisis that Heather was more in love with herself than him.Their relationship wasn't exactly strictly professional after all.

I felt as if she made Leonard a bit uncomfortable at times, but he mainly allowed her to, despite the talk about "decorum" when Heather is interviewing him. I think he may have been flattered at first - he's definitely not an arrogant guy - he's more self - deprecating than anything else - but I can see the appeal of having a young women interested in his work. He was insecure as it was and Heather was being patronizing. I think he was bothered by her lack of sincerity and arrogance.

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[–] excalibur212 15 years ago

mjhartley, you have gotten the closest in this thread so far to an accurate interpretation, but with a few missteps. Indeed, he slapped her because she used him. The fact that she was now so blatantly patronizing him was just further evidence of this, and the catalyst for him reacting the way he should have much sooner.

Your comment "with someone of his generation, he would interpret her sleeping with him as the beginning of something intimate" was a pretty blanket statement. Some people like me do actually still believe sex is something sacred. I don't think the age difference has anything to do with this part of the film.

Also, regarding your comment that Casey "got" the later book: It's not that he "got it"; it's that he connected with it because it exhibited the same level of detachment that mirrored the second part of Leonard's life, the same lack of compromise and committment that Casey is willing to make for Ariel. Casey and Leonard are very much alike, which is why they dislike each other so much.

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[–] dbeane 10 years ago

Also, regarding your comment that Casey "got" the later book: It's not that he "got it"; it's that he connected with it because it exhibited the same level of detachment that mirrored the second part of Leonard's life, the same lack of compromise and committment that Casey is willing to make for Ariel.

I disagree - I think Casey is simply older and more experienced than Heather, so he's less interested in Leonard's earlier romance-oriented oeuvre. Heather doesn't "get" the later books because she's too young and lacking in life experience to appreciate them.

I think this underlies Leonard's attitude towards Heather - he realizes she's young, but he hopes that she'll gain the insight to see that perhaps those later novels of his are more relevant than she currently thinks.

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[–] fiatlux-1 13 years ago

I don't think Leonard slapped her because of her false promises. I think Leonard realized that she was toying with his emotions by flirting and pretending she was attracted to him only to get deeper into his mind for the purposes of her thesis. I think Leonard finally falls for, tries to kiss her and she walked away.

Exactly! He realizes that she just used him, that she never liked him...at least not like he cared for her. She was a real bitch. How can you toy with someone like that? Someone who was a decent person, who was obviously wounded and didn't trust easily? And least of all for a crappy thesis?!

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Silky_KY 16 years ago

I thought he slapped her becuse she drew him away from finishing his novel and wasted what little time he had left. When you see her stricken face and hear her say "I didn't deserve that", if you don't mentally answer "Oh, yes you did!" you don't understand this movie at all.

My god, what a performance from Langella! He used everything he has as an actor and a human being in this role. I was crying at the end for both Leonard and Langella.

Wild-a** hillbilly theories supplied @ no cost 2 U

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[–] Catstello 16 years ago

...Because he's insulted by her transparent attempts at manipulation, like a child trying placate a teacher. Heather is a very smart, but very shallow, person. (To me) Heather is revealed throughout the movie to be more in love with herself than with Leonard. She doesn't actually respect him as a human or appreciate his writing in any mature, intellectual sense. She is in love with his first books because of the high of liberation she experienced reading them, and it's a sensation she's chased after through school and is still following.

I think the slap could also be an expression of Leonard's self-loathing, annoyed at how gullible he had been, not trusting his initial instincts that this young distraction was a mistake. I don't think Heather represents youth, or a muse, or purity or anything like that. She's a critic plain and simple, an intellectual parasite that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support her own aims. Her interest in Leonard is, even more than she realizes, entirely one of self-interest.

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[–] rs114-1 16 years ago

Wow, I can't find one answer that's not well-thought out. Hope the writer/director has read this thread, to see how well he involved the audience in the meaning of the movie.

The slap really surprised me, and the stillness and bare emotions that followed were painful to watch.

I think it did come out of frustration, with himself, with Heather's manipulative ways, with life.

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[–] harlot_harem 16 years ago

I have nothing of merit to contribute to the thread since since my thoughts on this matter have already been conveyed by others. However, I must thank you for the following sentence:

"She's a critic plain and simple, an intellectual parasite that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support her own aims."

Great remark. Ever since she first appeared on screen I sensed there was something unpleasant lurking behind her facade of intellectualism and admiration bordering on adoration.

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[–] Yves-15 15 years ago

I thought this was the more powerful statement:

Her interest in Leonard is, even more than she realizes, entirely one of self-interest.

It's great to read all of these responses. I agree that Heather was using Leonard and I enjoyed the way the film kept us in suspense about each of their motives. The performances from Langella and Ambrose were both subtle and worked for me. I also enjoyed the subplot romance of Ariel and Casey.

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[–] LostDrive-In 16 years ago

"She's a critic plain and simple, an intellectual parasite that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support her own aims."

Actually, this is not a view the movie takes of critics, nor is a view that Leonard takes of them, either, as Leonard attempts to lend books of criticism to Heather. You may not enjoy literary or film criticism, but it's often the case, as Salman Rushdie recently pointed out on The Colbert Report, that critics bring to attention works of art that might have otherwise gone overlooked. Bonnie and Clyde is a great example of a movie that some people wrote off, but other critics championed, and it eventually got the attention it deserved.

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[–] Limeginger 16 years ago

> Actually, this is not a view the movie takes of critics, nor is a
> view that Leonard takes of them, either, as Leonard attempts to
> lend books of criticism to Heather.

um, "Actually" this may in fact be a view the movie takes of critics, and is a valid interpretation regardless, and does indeed appear to be a view that Leonard takes of them.

Leonard makes a point of contrasting contemporary literary critics with writers like Lionel Trilling, Irving Howe, and Edmund Wilson.

He says: "If you really want to continue with literary criticism I could lend you some books by the great critics from my era. I doubt they're taught at academies anymore, but that's really all to their credit, because they weren't 'theorists' they were readers." The writers he cites not only wrote literary criticism but rich, complex, intellectually adventurous social and political commentary. They were thinkers who wrote. They were far from "intellectual parasites that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support [their] own aims" (nice!!) which is likely closer to Leonard's opinion of current critics, like the woman they met at the cocktail party (and to whom Heather sycophantically and aggressively attached herself to as the next rung on her career ladder).

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[–] Limeginger 15 years ago

wow--nicely put!

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[–] Nonni912 15 years ago

For me, the slap said "ENOUGH". Even Heather didn't escape its meaning. Then when Leonard leaned back against the pillow and detached from Heather while she was still present, you knew whatever happened after that had nothing to do with Heather. Leonard was a man in possession of himself again.

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[–] dbeane 10 years ago

She's a critic plain and simple, an intellectual parasite that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support her own aims. Her interest in Leonard is, even more than she realizes, entirely one of self-interest.

Not only that, but she's an amateur critic who isn't even interested in real criticism.

To me, the saddest and most poignant moment of the film was when he selected those critics' books for her from his shelves, and she leaves them behind.

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[–] srb848 16 years ago

My first thought was he slapped her because she was being insincere about his unfinished novel. She said that she didn't deserve the slap, and she really didn't. Yes, she violated their pact of honesty, but she was just trying to be kind to her friend who was going through "hell". However another possible reason for the slap was his misguided anger regarding her part in causing him to abandon his novel. We find out a few mintues later that he has decided to toss it-- this unfinished novel which has consumed 10 years of his life! Of course, the viewer knows, and he will eventually know, that she has done him a favor.

I enjoyed the movie and all the performances. Being close to Leonard's age myself, I found a lot to think about and relate to.

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[–] somehope 16 years ago

I went to see this brilliant movie, and after the lights were up, I asked someone sitting to me "who," not why, he slapped her "for." And the man next to me said simply "both of them." I do not claim to know why he slapped her: it was the most vicious, sudden act in the film, but wasn't it a strange way to end a loving relationship, but a needed one?
There were some strange movements in the film: the honey episode; the very first time Leonard moved away from Heather and placed his hands over her eyes; etc. I don't fully understand those either but they lay not in the thesis nor manuscripts but one character's inability to be close to someone ... and another giving up her ideal lover by returning his picture. Somewhere for the good of them, that slap came forth.

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[–] Writer01603 16 years ago

The book (Which I've read) examines the slap as almost releasing. (I have not seen the movie, but Tuesday, I'm going to be the first at Blockbuster to rent it... or maybe go to Targets and buy it. I loved the book, it's on my top ten in alternative lit reads.) The slap though, in the book, seemed needful. He needed to free himself from her and she needed to be freed from him. The slap registered as a way of saying, don't pity me, just leave me be. But I don't claim to actually know for a fact, and I think that the fact that the slap is raising so much question, speaks to the power of the scene, so I can't wait to see the movie.

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[–] mshafto 16 years ago

Well, someone in an above post said she didn't deserve to be slapped and actually, I think she did.
He told her he didn't want to get involved with her project because he didn't have time and or the energy because he wasn't well, and yet she forced herself into his life anyway. He ended up opening his heart and his door to her, and then when he kissed her that night she ran out on him, this after she hands him this huge tome of a dissertation to read and expects him to wade through it and give his thoughts.

"She's a critic plain and simple, an intellectual parasite that must siphon from richer lives and minds to support her own aims."

While the second part of your sentence is true she actually wasn't even a critic, she was just a grad student hoping to get published, which is even worse.

My sister spent eight yrs.s doing a dissertation on the French filmaker Godard, starting at age 36, this after having spent 8 yrs.s divided between Columbia and Skidmore. She did it because she hasn't got one creative bone in her body and apparently chooses not to work, or can't make it in the real world. That's exactly what she is, someone who spends her life studying the talents of others because she has none of her own......harsh, but true.

I don't know if Heather had any redeeming qualities, I guess she did make him reevaluate his work

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[–] SkepCritDoubt 16 years ago

You are severely under selling scholarly critics, and your sister it seems. The value that they posses is almost equal to that of the actual artists themsleves.

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[–] maveltre-566-900040 11 years ago

Almost equal to? That's going pretty far. I teach high school English; I now see what a small world the literary world is, and how many people feel it has (or had) no significant impact on their life. I can have my appreciation without romanticizing it anymore.

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[–] fiatlux-1 10 years ago

Just a comment, but she did more than kiss him that night. Its not shown, but they made love.
This deepened Leonard's feelings for her, because he saw sex as caring. She saw it as just another way to 'revive' the young, vibrant man that she was convinced was hiding inside Leonard.
She was young & shallow, the sex (and Leonard) meant nothing to her.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

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[–] 10 years ago

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