Wake up Westerners


I am the caucasian and live in the US, and I'm not Iranian in any way. However, I am really sick of every review prefacing this movie by saying that it's some sort of desperate cry for freedom from a evil empire.

First of all, the filmmaker was granted complete access to the national soccer stadium to shoot his film, this is not some sort of guerilla filmmaking. It was done with full knowledge and permission of the state obviously. They have seen all his previous "banned" movies and still let him work and create freely as he pleases. They choose not to facilitate the projection of his movies in Iran at state run theatres, but allow him to travel and show the films elsewhere. "Banned" Iranian films and western films and music are available in Iran to those who wish to pursue it as bootlegs. The "Metallica" grafitti in the stadium bathroom is a pretty good indication of this.

Secondly this is a story about girls wanting to see a soccer game. It is not about how women are subjugated subservient scum in a backward society. This is the equivalent of underage kids in the US sneaking into a bar to see their favorite band by using a fake ID. That always sound pretty odd to Europeans, who are able to drink at a much younger age. Are US kids a victim of evil puritanical laws? These girls are obviously not being carted away to a torture chamber. Also, there are plenty of women here in the US who are not able to do what other women can as a result of religious beliefs. The only difference is that the religion is enforced by their families and peers(and maybe themselves), rather than the government.

Many laws, no matter where you live, seem unfair or ridiculous. It is important that you not think that you or your neighbor are somehow immune to it, even in the glorious beacon of freedom that is the USA. This movie is about being empowered enough to say and even do something about it!

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You must not have watched the bonus features. This was guerilla filmmaking. The director submitted a false script under a false name to the "powers that be" that control whether a film can be made. His cover was blown 5 days prior to finishing the film, but he was lucky and was able to finish. Permission to show this film in Iranian theaters was denied.

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The stuff about his film being made discreetly is a lie. The film was completed in a couple of hours as the Iran-Bahrain match was being played. The government of Iran was fully aware of what was happening. And do you not think with 90,000 people at the stadium, people would'nt realize filming is taking place?

Panahi has always been able to sensationalize his movies and it really helps at festivals.
The part about it being denied the right to show in theatres though is correct. For some reason it was not screened in theatres yet it is legally available on DVD & VCD.

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"The part about it being denied the right to show in theatres though is correct. For some reason it was not screened in theatres yet it is legally available on DVD & VCD."

These DVDs/CDs were all bootlegs.

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I would take those extras on the DVD with a grain of salt. There has been practices of filmmakers/producers marketing movies with false stories of persecutions just to get acceptance in festivals around the world.

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"Secondly this is a story about girls wanting to see a soccer game. It is not about how women are subjugated subservient scum in a backward society."
Yes, you are right, this is a movie about girls wanting to see the game live. However, they DON'T? And why? Because their society denies them equal rights! And about what, about football! For Christ's sake (I wanted to use the prophet's name here instead of Jesus, but that would be a blasphemy, right?), football does not erode one's moral character -- on the contrary.
In the end, the movie's message come down to swearing. Girls would be allowed into the stadium to sit in a different section, if only men didn't swear. Why would men be allowed to show bad behavior and women not? This is called hypocricy.

"This is the equivalent of underage kids in the US sneaking into a bar to see their favorite band by using a fake ID. That always sound pretty odd to Europeans, who are able to drink at a much younger age. Are US kids a victim of evil puritanical laws?"
Yes, Europeans find the American drinking age a pretty stupid idea. However, no matter whether you like the rule, it applies to each and every person in America. Men and women, black and white, Barcelona supporters and Juventus supporters only subjected to this rule while they are young.
In the movie they remind us that "men and women are different". They mention it when the girl wants to go to the restroom and there are only men's restrooms in the stadium. Well, in the movie the girl had no problem using a men's restroom.

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Look at it this way..men aren't allowed to be present during Women's games either.


Two wrongs don't make a right.

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"These girls are obviously not being carted away to a torture chamber"

The girls are being carted away to the vice squad. Nobody actually knows what awaits them there. One of them is convinced she is going to be shot.

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If you understood Persian, you would realize the soldiers are going to phone the girl's parents.
They are not going to be taken to some dungeon and then tortured for years.

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Why if Iran is so developed, has it not separated religion from state yet. It's a baby step towards improvement.

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ok, that does not in any way answer my question.... thanks by the way though, and it's "everyone".

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What? Dude, seriously...

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You should of realised by the second post, that the verbal correction wasn't due to factual error of your judgement but rather to help you improve upon yourself. By your third post though, you actually did kind of embarass yourself by not understanding it but who is there to blame. What we have here is failure to communicate. Now, vast majority of Iranians don't want separation of church and state? True or false, or better yet, who are you to say that... There are no data relying on any pools of what Iranian men and women want. Why is there noone else writing here, that's the biggest question.

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Thanks


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It's a pity those answers weren't split by age group because it'd interesting to see how what proportion of the young think that way - specifically those who have only ever know Iran since the Islamic Revolution in 1979.

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"There are no data relying on any pools of what Iranian men and women want"

You call someone else out while your grammar is terrible? What a schmuck.


What's being proven with this post? It makes no sense that in the US 18 year olds can't buy alcohol, just like in Iran it makes no sense that girls can't go to soccer games. We Americans can be just as backwards and retarded as anywhere else, that's for damn sure. This idea of moral relativity that you're spouting is wrong though. Bad ideas are bad ideas, no matter which country starts them. Iran is dumb, the US is dumb, the Chinese are dumb. Happy?

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I am baffled and angered by so much hypocrisy and hubris from the arrogant Northern colonial nations especially the UglySadisticArrogant (USA) about the so-called gender equality. If this opportunist, slanted director (Panaahi) who only panders to Northern viewers (for obvious reasons) had been under any pressure or censorship, he wouldn't have been able to even start this project. I don't see millions of women demonstrating to get into the stadia anyhow; the reason is they are simply too dangerous and inappropriate places. I myself think this rule must be changed and don't always agree w/ the system's laws and behaviour. However, on my land, I decide what stands and what does not (no foreign interference desired)!

Strangely, all these nonsensical claims come from cultures drowned in jingoism, racism, xenophobia, drugs, alcohol, wife and spousal abuse, date rape, and yes the ultimate low of all lows INCEST (i.e. actively and w/ no regards for supposed "human rights" raping their own family members)!! Not to mention invading dozens of innocent countries so far and engulfing them in their hellish fire and rage of supremacy, control and greed. Well, I am glad the Islamic Republic and the glorious revolution (along w/ friendly nations such as Cuba, Venezuela) don't invade others and don't have millions of peoples' blood on their hands. The Americans and their allies in Europe living in their self-satisfied cesspools should clean up their own huge mess before lecturing other cultures. Alas, you will never recover from your eternal, terminal illness: selective conscience and selective memory.

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If this opportunist, slanted director (Panaahi) who only panders to Northern viewers (for obvious reasons) had been under any pressure or censorship, he wouldn't have been able to even start this project.


I can't imagine why he'd have felt under any pressure...

http://www.nzff.co.nz/n9709.html?r=2

...oh, right.

I don't see millions of women demonstrating to get into the stadia anyhow; the reason is they are simply too dangerous and inappropriate places.


Here's a suggestion, let those who feel unsafe, or who do not want to go for any other reason, choose to not go. Let those who are happy to go, go. This is what they do in other civilised countries. What does it say about your culture if women are unsafe at a sporting event?

Strangely, all these nonsensical claims come from cultures drowned in jingoism, racism, xenophobia,


These are bad things, but a lot of places feature these to some extent (including your country). That doesn't mean individuals or organisations can't criticise stuff that's wrong in other countries.

drugs, alcohol,


These can be good things, in the right context and in moderation.

...wife and spousal abuse, date rape, and yes the ultimate low of all lows INCEST


Firstly, you do realise there is incest in Iran, too, don't you? Secondly, that's a poor comparison. Western and non-western notions feature these problems, yes, but they are not officially sanctioned. The authorities in my country try their best to reduce the incidence of spousal abuse, for example. There's no comparison with criticising a country's institutionalised sexism.

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You made me laugh hahahaha
SHOT !
man plz be serious
the max thing they do, is calling their parents

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Hey guys, I am 21 yrs Saudi, I've been to Iran(many cities including Shiraz , Tehran and the northern areas) and generally speaking the people there are more conservative than Saudi Arabia. On the other hand, they have more freedom! Out there, you can criticize the government without being afraid, but in the retard Arab countries no body can do it.
I'm saying that to be religiously conservative doesn't mean dictatorship!

Excuse my English , I'm not native :)

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As a Iranian I highly doubt Iranians are more conservative than Saudi Arabians.
Iranians let their women drive, work, vote, have their own identity papers...
Segments of government are pretty conservative but most ordinary Muslims in Iran are very personal now adays about religion and are not conservative.

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I've never agreed with anyone so wholeheartedly than with the OP. Stop political bs and enjoy the film.

Even stomach started to hurt when I read the hypocrisy displayed in the comments.


The Apple Scruffs Corps, 05
and polygones

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agreed with the OP,
i live i tehran and ive been to azadi(stadium)more than 50 time.i can honostly say its not a safe place for women.ecpecially when the stadium is full,you can feel "man if im not careful im gonna die here",or get seriously injured.and it happened so many times.so its not the matter of man and women.its not safe for women.


to PeykanTM ,i dont think they filmed it during the game.(i cant say that for sure though).i was upstaire and keep changing the seat.until we found our friend who had the tickets,and then we went downstaire,we didnt notice anything.and some of the coverage shot are not even from the match.plus those bathroom shots were imposible to shoot during the match.
pluse you say soldiers,..to be honost they're not that nice.


to cominternprc ,about that pool,i have to say if that was taken from people in tehran(and some other major cities),the result would be so much diffrent.
i mean half the population in iran dont even know the diffrence.and i cant blame them cuz to be honost i dont think they would even feel any diffrent.


+please no grammer error,i know my english is not very good.

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i live i tehran and ive been to azadi(stadium)more than 50 time.i can honostly say its not a safe place for women.ecpecially when the stadium is full,you can feel "man if im not careful im gonna die here",or get seriously injured.and it happened so many times.so its not the matter of man and women.its not safe for women.


As I said to another commentator, what does it say about your culture, your people, if women can't be safe at a sporting event? Seriously, it seems very patronising to your own society. Many, many countries around the world are sports mad, and have very high populations that pack out stadiums, eg South Americans and their love of football, Australians and cricket, the Rugby Sevens tournament that goes round the world and has packed, boisterous crowds usually drinking lots of beer. Women attend those events, and are safe.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4469479706_579124cdeb.jpg

I don't see why Iran should be any different. Especially if PeykanTM is right, and Iranian culture is not really that conservative any more at a personal level.

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I am baffled and angered by so much hypocrisy and hubris from the arrogant Northern colonial nations especially the UglySadisticArrogant (USA) about the so-called gender equality. If this opportunist, slanted director (Panaahi) who only panders to Northern viewers (for obvious reasons) had been under any pressure or censorship, he wouldn't have been able to even start this project. I don't see millions of women demonstrating to get into the stadia anyhow; the reason is they are simply too dangerous and inappropriate places. I myself think this rule must be changed and don't always agree w/ the system's laws and behaviour. However, on my land, I decide what stands and what does not (no foreign interference desired)!

Strangely, all these nonsensical claims come from cultures drowned in jingoism, racism, xenophobia, drugs, alcohol, wife and spousal abuse, date rape, and yes the ultimate low of all lows INCEST (i.e. actively and w/ no regards for supposed "human rights" raping their own family members)!! Not to mention invading dozens of innocent countries so far and engulfing them in their hellish fire and rage of supremacy, control and greed. Well, I am glad the Islamic Republic and the glorious revolution (along w/ friendly nations such as Cuba, Venezuela) don't invade others and don't have millions of peoples' blood on their hands. The Americans and their allies in Europe living in their self-satisfied cesspools should clean up their own huge mess before lecturing other cultures. Alas, you will never recover from your eternal, terminal illness: selective conscience and selective memory

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Glorious beacon of freedom that is the USA ? A country where in some states it's easier to own a gun than it is to buy a drink ? Where racism is still rampant ? How can that be freedom ? Give me a break. Don't hold up your good old U S of A as a beacon of freedom like it's some sort of utopia. The world is a very unequal place, some places more than others. But please don't patronise us into thinking the United States is some sort of flag bearer in this regard.

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How is being able to own a gun an example of a lack of freedom? Please explain that to me.

Also, please list the states where it is easier to own a gun than buy a drink.

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Indeed, Iran is way too demonized now in Europe as well, while at the same time we cooperate with worse regimes which are useful to our greed.

To give an example, I lived in Sri Lanka for a while and in that country filmmakers critical of the current nationalist-socialist-buddhist regime would have been shot a long time ago. The assassination would have been done by 2 unidentified gunmen who would have passed through a series of high security check-points without anyone actually checking them for assault rifles or bombs. Then government would conclude an unsuccesful investigation;)
That's what usually happens to journalists there, since noone has yet had the guts to actually make a movie critical of the country...

And where I live in Europe - Slovenia, we have a state agency that funds a film or 2 a year in our language. Only after the conservative christians, most of which are members of the so-called Democratic Party (I'm not kidding sadly) came to power, they stopped the production as the new people in charge claimed proposed films were too pornographic (!!) ... Pornographic means maybe that a breast is seen...

And at the same time most freethinking journalists lost their jobs after the conservatives' allies took charge of the companies having most shares of important media houses...

Sorry for mediocre english, but I believe the message was clear enough. Don't have any black/white ideas about our freedoms in the "west"...

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