MovieChat Forums > Vicky Cristina Barcelona (2008) Discussion > was some of the pretentiousness intentio...

was some of the pretentiousness intentional?


Well there's the two main characters who feel that "omg Europe is SO cultural!!!", one of whom is trying to ponder the mystery of "why love is so hard to define" while the other apparently prudish girl is persuaded into a quickie with some guy under some nearby tree two weeks before her wedding day because he showed his sensitive side with a bit of guitar music.

Then there's the guys father who writes the "most beautiful poetry" but is "punishing humanity for not learning to love each other" by not letting anyone read it. And his ex-wife who angrily snarls he stole her "whole way of seeing".

It's not all meant to be serious is it?

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[deleted]

As a European myself I found their attitude unbearable. I certainly wouldn't want to meet them in real life

Also the narrator - was he deliberately selected for his grating voice? I think it did a lot to enhance the pretentiousness of what was coming of his mouth (reflecting what the characters where thinking most of the time, but still pretentious).

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[deleted]

Her subject, Catalan identity was pretentious for a start (never mind the she did not even speak Catalan or Spanish, and her reason for liking Catalonia in the first place seemed dubious; asides from the fact he was from the area, there was nothing Catalan about Gaudi's work).

But asides from that, the pretentiousness of Vicky sleeping with Antonio was the ease in which he could change her from a sexually conservative, engaged woman to someone so overcome with lust that it had to be satisfied *immediately* even if that meant in public. And all he had to do to get that affect? Just introduce her to his ludicrous "poet" father and take her to someone playing the guitar, and that was enough to convince her that this wasn't just some sleazy Spaniard she'd just met who had introduced himself by propositioning her, no! This was a seriously deep artistic thinker, and after that she could just no longer help herself.

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[deleted]

Well, she was very drunk. And, as she found out later, unhappy with her current situation. She was settling for a life of securities and when she tasted the excitement of passion she lost her self in the moment.

Voting History: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=26598711

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I agree with pretty much everything you say. As I mentioned in a post just before her Catalan Identity degree was laughable. She will find another 'juan-antonio' as there are millions of them, and divorce with half of the rich douche's money. Nothing happens with Christina.... I mean no transformation, nothing at all, no story arc. Vicky's epiphany isn't really so as deep down she must have known her husband is a douche, well maybe thats not fair but at least not right for her, but is right for her "expectations", yeah thats spot on pretentious.

I think it was meant to be ironic in most of the ways people are criticizing it, I found some of the irony in what other posters labeled as bland and boring cliches but it still fell way short with me, just my .02

I wish I could have seen your responder's posts. Doesn't sound like you were fighting I wonder why the admins delete stuff, post linking? who knows. I've been getting this weird red warning above my messages before I post too, I think I linked to an outside site or something.

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And all he had to do to get that affect? Just introduce her to his ludicrous "poet" father and take her to someone playing the guitar


Well, let's see: Javier Bardem and a spanish quitar, vs. Chris Messina and his wide-screen tv. You know, there's just no contest.



BBL

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I think the narrator was definitely meant to sound a bit pretentious. The way he said certain words and the use of certain adjectives was very deliberate.

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[deleted]

Europe is better, and this is coming from a die hard American.

That's another case of the grass is greener on the other side. On one hand you've got millions of Europeans & Asians immigrating to U.S every year, but you've also have Americans who imagine Europe is heavenly peace (which it isn't.. I mean just look at Russia! )

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////millions of Europeans & Asians immigrating to U.S every year/////////////

Because the US are rich.

Thank God, I'm an Atheist! - Luis Bunuel

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Because the US are rich.
Yes, and to create that wealth a country must have solid political and social foundation at the beginning.

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As well slavery and very, very cheap workforce coming to it's coasts continuously from the beginning.

Thank God, I'm an Atheist! - Luis Bunuel

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China isn't that bad, I mean it is when compared to Europe and America. but much better than AFrica.

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Russia is not in Europe you dolt.

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///Russia is not in Europe you dolt.///

The huge Western part of it (including the capital city) is in Europe, from the Baltic Sea (Kaliningrad District) up to the Ural Mountains.

Thank God, I'm an Atheist! - Luis Bunuel

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[deleted]

LOL. I am from Asia, my parents migrated and I migrated to New York. BUT I wanted to take my masters in Europe and possibly Travel the world. I think every place have culture if you really take the effort to look... however, I just couldn't see culture in America... at least not yet.

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You'll never see real American culture till you get out of NYC. NYC is a country of it's own or maybe I should say a culture of its own. But not representative of "American Culture". Head South young man, head to the real modern day south. You may not get rich financially but the values of America culture can't get any deeper than the folks who live "down there".

I spent 3 years in NYC and the people are all so "distant" from each other but somehow manage to live crammed like sardines in their own little world. There is no "we" there, only "me, me, me".


********************************************
My favorite: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

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Pretty much all of modern culture comes from America, though. Arguably the most important music, film and literature of the past century or so has been from America. As for culture of the people, well, it's all there, and it varies drastically from city to city, state to state. I think the problem is that because American culture is so globally saturated, most people are kind of used to it before they even get there.

Me, I'm from London and moved out to Los Angeles (which is supposedly culturally void). There is oodles of stuff going on here, and the LA crowd are a very specific breed unto themselves - not particularly one I identify with, admittedly, but they're endlessly fascinating to me. Even then, I can drive just a hundred miles within the same country and be in a completely different place with completely different people and a completely different culture (yet all identify broadly as "Americans"). That's why I like it here.

I dunno. It seems to me some people look at culture as something inherently exotic or otherworldly, whereas I think it's anything singular and interesting about any particular group of people. I think places like Paris are culturally inadequate because everyone living there is trying to be part of the "idea" of Paris, it all feels quite phony. As far as Spain goes, Granada is the place you really want to go to. Barcelona's a nice city, but you're not really getting anything out of the ordinary there.

Anyway, yes, I found this film and its inherent Europhilia pretty grating. I'd have assumed it was intended as a satire of sorts if it weren't for Allen releasing four or five other similarly frustrating films in the space of a decade or so.

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Of the 50 countries in Europe you pick Russia? As the example?

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>It's not all meant to be serious is it?

Definitely not. This movie is very much a parody.

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The character's are indulgent, but I have to say as an American I do envy the European way of life. They always seem so relaxed and free. Americans tend to get too caught up in competition and ambition. The Rat Race, ugh.....

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Someone said what I was thinking here.

I like art, and artistic people, and culture etc, but this lot, jesus - all they liked was the fact that people knew they liked it...

when he says the thing about the situation being too complicated, "we need a poet" I nearly fell off my chair laughing. And here's another - this (failed) poet, his dad, who has never made any money from poetry (I know, I sound like Gordon Gecko, but bear with me) he lives in this huge hacidena, has plenty of congac on the go (not cheap)yet the whole financial underpinning of his beautiful tortured life is that he has a load of dosh somewhere.

My two cents.

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I think it was intentional. I mean, Javier Bardem's character was so stereotypically European: hot, charming, a serious lover. His father too, the poet with the wine. and I felt like Cristina's desire to be "un-American" is stereotypical of that of a lot of young Americans today. Vicky's husband was also a cardboard cutout of that sort of guy. It felt intentional to me.




"The success of the horror genre has led to its downfall."
-Dario Argento

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[deleted]

Thank you for saying something meaningful. I agree, it was intentional. W.A. was poking fun at these people..but he has to be careful because they are probably 90 percent of his audience. I think there are a lot of young Americans who romanticize European and Bohemian culture...Vicky's husband kind of summed it up in his rant about Cristina and I was agreeing with what he said, but then he was more and more of a douche--materialistic, boring, etc. It's hard when you see both sides. I think that was Vicky's problem, she recognized the ridiculous elements of all their lives and didn't know where she fit in.

Europe is better in a lot of ways:-)but we do have culture in the US, many of them, for example, Materialism is a culture. I hate it when people say Americans have "no culture," if you say that you don't even know what culture means.

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I think Cristina's pretentiousness (the bit about how she felt European and looked down upon materialistic America) was on purpose. As for the rest, I don't think so.

Voting History: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=26598711

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all I can say is, I hope I was wrong (and it was intentional).

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Yeah. After thinking about it for awhile I'm pretty sure it's all supposed to be very over the top (and often pretentious). And if it was intentional then it's a really great movie, if not then it's pretty pathetic so I'm just going to assume that it was in fact intentional, lol.

Voting History: http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=26598711

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"if it's not ambiguous, don't bother" - sally mann

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Quote: It's not all meant to be serious is it?
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If this post is meant to be serious, I suggest watching a few Allen movies. Poking fun a pretension is something he's done hilariously in about two dozen films.

As for the narrator, I'm surprised he was selected at all. The film could have gotten along fine without him. Woody: Show, don't tell. It's a cliche for a reason.

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"Russia is not in Europe you dolt!" - JazzSamurai

What a retard! I suppose you think Franse IS Europe aswell?! Dumb American Idiot.

"Beat it slope... or you're next!!" - Sensei John Kreese

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I think it was intentional in that Woody Allen knew exactly what he was doing, but unintentional in that the characters had no idea they were being pretentious. It was accurate on one level since that's how many "artsy" people actually are, but since the pretentiousness was basically used as a plot device, I think it's silly to say that Woody doesn't think them somewhat ridiculous.

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all I can say is, I hope I was wrong (and it was intentional). [2]

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"... come on, let's not get into one of those turgid, categorical imperative arguments."

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[deleted]

what I don't understand is if Vicky didn't want to go to Oviedo in the first place with Juan, why did she'd to go? And since she initially found the guy to be so repulsive why did she still went out with him instead of looking after Cristina, her sick friend.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Woody has been making fun of intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals for decades and will continue to do so.

cinemapedant.blogspot.com

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///Woody has been making fun of intellectuals and pseudo-intellectuals for decades and will continue to do so.///

The only thing he still misses in this respect is himself.

Thank God, I'm an Atheist! - Luis Bunuel

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There's nothing pretentious about it, all American girls that go to Europe hopes to get laid by strange foreign men.

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Lol. That's probably not all wrong, either.

So apart from this movie being about insufferably pretentious asses apparently, going through encounters and relations like so much dope, did people like it?
Or was all this pretentiousness just grating on your nerves?
Did you leave the theater in a good mood or bad?

I'm asking because I might rent it.
I've enjoyed enough WA films to keep me interested, but I don't like all his work.

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Most of these posts are only believable if the posters have no knowledge of Woody Allen's films, in which case i understand all the confusion.

Of course all the pretentiousness was intentional. that's the underlying theme of his humor, and in all his films. you can be extremely intellegent without being an intellectual. Intellectuals, for him, are smart people who are clueless & spew BS. if you happen to agree with him, you'll most likely love his movies.

Woody's always making fun of people who read into stuff & pontificate to impress others. he loves to show how snobs usually stereotype, overgeneralize & compartmentalize cultural groups.

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