MovieChat Forums > Vicky Cristina Barcelona (2008) Discussion > Ambiguity and Woody Allen movies

Ambiguity and Woody Allen movies

posted 8 years ago by Mellow-Fellow
12 replies | jump to latest

I like contemplating a good ending. Crimes and Misdemeanors for example. Good film.

But this, well... This has no resolution, not even a climax or anything, not much of any story arc aside from the small trip that sets things in motion.

Basically... The characters go through some stuff, we see some more stuff happen, and they end up the same people as before the movie started. Vicky was always impartial to her husband's life and what she set up for herself even if she didn't really know it entirely before Barcelona. Good thing for her there are a million Juan Antonios in the world and she will be happily divorced with half of her husbands money within 3, 7 maybe 10 years, and that pretentious Catalonian degree she got which would mean nothing if she had to provide for herself.

Christina has no epiphany --if we could call that being what Vicky had-- she ends up the same person taking pictures.... Pictures, like that's going to make her troubles vanish... Name one famous photographer.

[–] antoni109 8 years ago

You are right that the characters don't develop.

Vicky is still married to the one dimensional corporate guy and knows she's going to hate her life but won't do anything to change it. She's totally closed to other ways of life - hence her rant when she gets shot in the hand. Ok, I get she'd be upset at being shot so fair enough, but her rejection of the drama and craziness of Juan A and M-E says it all.

Christina is still a vacuous dilettante who doesn't know what she wants and play acts at everything.

Maria Elena and Juan Antonio will continue to oscillate around each other in high drama.

But all this is the point. And very enjoyable.

[–] Mellow-Fellow 8 years ago

So the point is that it's pointless. I like it lol. I just like a little more development and transformation in my movies I guess. I thought it was ok, as a reminder (allegory?) of certain perspectives. Nothing new though.

[–] notafraid1989 8 years ago

To me the message of the film ultimately is that some people are meant to live a life of passion (and will) and others are not (and wont). Maria Elena and Juan Antonio are the real deal. They live a life that is driven by passion, romance, and art. Vicky is a conventional type who is intrigued by this life of passion and gets a rise out of sticking her toes in that water, but will ultimately go back to living a life of convention with her husband in New York. Cristina is in denial. She wants to live a life of artistically driven passion, but is far too neurotic and conventional to walk-the-walk. She will continue to live her life in conflict over this discrepancy, occasionally vacationing into the life of passion that she dreams of living, but ultimately will fall back into convention.

Ultimately the point of the movie is a realistic one, that people are destined to live a certain lifestyle based on their inherent personality traits. As movie-goers we expect to see people change and grow in unrealistic ways, but this movie is more true to life. In reality, most people accept the lifestyle they lead and live it, while others are in denial and live in conflict because of that denial. Either way, the reality is that someone's inherent personality-type determines the lifestyle they lead, and there is nothing they can do to change that. And that is the message of this movie.

[–] Mellow-Fellow 8 years ago

Good point. Probably is the best explanation I've heard... Though people can and do change, you can have a life-changing epiphany... One of the great parts of "American Beauty", great movie...

But yeah, the inherent personality traits don't get changed without a lobotomy or something they are, as you say inherent... Lester from American Beauty was always that guy, it just took that hot young girl to trigger his real personality to break free from the shackles of the 'conventional American life'. Such a great film.. Almost a perfect movie...

[–] billymac72 7 years ago

Atheist Woody Allen does indeed believe life is pointless as we, essentially, make up our own meaning to it and endure the horrible things that happen to us until we die. Very bleak, I know. And he usually finds great comedy in it (I love Allen, but this is his perspective, not mine, btw).

The fact that Allen believes life is meaningless, basically, does not mean he isn't making a point with this story. I think part of what he is saying is that for most people, no matter how much they declare or define belief systems or their goals for life, we are lead by fairly capricious instincts and don't really know what we want.

In the case of these two women, their directions don't change much despite all the experiences they go through. Vicky is completely drawn to Antonio for reasons she doesn't even understand, but talks herself out of it and may wind up exactly like her friend Judy, married to a really "good guy" who provides well for her, but doesn't spark her passions. Throughout the movie, she repeatedly contradicts what she says through her actions. The only real difference between the two women is that free-spirited Christina deliberately gives in to her whims, but finds herself no more happy or secure.

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 3 years ago

Ironically, Woody has stumbled into one of the most philosophically-insightful verses in the Bible:

"For I do not understand what I am doing; for I am not practicing what I want to do, but I do the very thing I hate."

That one sentence contains a wealth of knowledge about human behaviour, and we see it running rampant throughout VCB.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

> most philosophically-insightful verses in the Bible:

Where is this in the Bible?

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 3 years ago

Book of Romans, Chapter 7, Verse 15.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

I've never heard of anything like that before in the Bible. But then again I am not very familiar with the Bible, or any other religious text. It's an interesting quote, almost presages neuroscience. I was just reading a neuroscience book last night that was talking about this, the battle between our lower reptile brainstem and the higher level neocortex.

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 3 years ago

I've read large chunks of it. I've strolled through the first part of the Old Testament, some of the prophecy books (mostly Daniel), and I've dipped into a bunch of the New Testament stuff, too. There's excellent stuff in there. I recommend the Book of Ecclesiastes. If you can chew through the "Old-Timey" language, it's a great book of philosophy, even independently. It's like a proto-existentialism. These days it's mostly known as a good bit of the lyrics of the Byrds' song Turn, Turn, Turn (there is a season, a time to laugh, a time to cry, etc.) Most of that book is basically going, "What's the point? Everything goes away, so why bother with anything?" It's really great if you dig philosophy.

And then, of course, throughout the Bible there are just tonnes of insights into human nature. Again, the language barrier is there, but it's a trove of knowledge and wisdom if you want to do a dive.

Plus the prophecy stuff (Daniel, Revelation, et al.) are wild.

[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 3 years ago

Annie Liebowitz.

[–] KBiker (765) 3 years ago

Name one famous photographer.

Ansel Adams
Richard Avedon
Alfred Stieglitz
Is that enough, or do you want more?