The muffins


so i've been thinking about it and i wonder if the muffins that the cultist eat/give out has anything to do with the hallucinations that some of the characters had. if they were laced with acid or something of the like.

karen had one at the beginning of the movie and had hallucinations throughout the film.

she could have been eating them even before the movie...

the girl who ate one, then went into the bathroom and seeing some crazy *beep* before coming out and being forced to kill her boyfriend.....

it must be how they gain their numbers...... acid muffins....

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Yes, they did have hallucinogens in them. That is my point of view on it.

The crazy cult lieutenant actually mentioned something to the girl. Saying they were "addictive".

And for all the people in the cult to start seeing "signs" that demons were coming it would make sense that they saw them because they were eating the laced muffins.

I really wish they had gone into more detail on the muffins.

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It would make sense the demons were not real and just caused by the muffins, because the other two survivors didn't see anything.

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i agree, the muffins were obviously laced with some sort of hallucinogenic. after watching it, I presumed that those who ate them saw the "demons" when in fact there were no demons. The whole "end of the world" thing was all a lie, invented by the crazy cult leader they see preaching on the televisions, and he brainwashed all the members to do the killings. and also at the end, the drug must've worn off on karen, because when she opens her eyes to the shadow we see on her face, I believe it was Mike which would explain her happy/thank god it's you expression. also, the beginning of the film(of karen showering and lounging in her apartment) was really the end of the film, and happened after all the subway scenes. this is evident by the scar on her shoulder that you can see in the shower, it's the scar from when the crazy horny cult member sliced her with a knife while trying to rape her.

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While this is a very interesting take and the scar definitely suggests this, I have a few problems with this interpretation. In the first place, I don't think that the idea of the muffin's being drugged was very well established, other than the fact that they are deliberately featured in two scenes, suggesting some sort of importance; other than that, its not clear and up to conjecture. However, that I can live with - I don't need to have everything in a movie spelled out for me, in fact I'd rather have to think for myself. But, if the beginning, where Karen emerges from the shower, is really supposed to be the beginning chronologically, it doesn't really make sense why the radio is reporting on seemingly-typical violence in the Middle-East. Upon reading this theory, I rewatched the beginning and focused on this radio broadcast, which mentions bombings in the region of Karbala, Iraq. It seems odd that the broadcast would not feature the mass chaos that supposedly occurred in the region in which the film takes place. Unless, of course, this scene is meant to draw the comparison between the religiously motivated violence in the Middle-East with the events of the film; a view which I can understand. Lastly, however, there is a scene in which the cult lieutenant, the one who mentions the 'addictiveness' of the muffins, laments his inability to see signs of God. I suppose the muffins could have just failed to work on him or something, but it doesn't quite line up. Either way, it's an interesting interpretation that adds to my understanding of the film, which I greatly enjoyed.

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wow thanx for this, i think your absolutley right. I didn't notice the scar in the beginning, but yes it is obviously the one she got in the end of the movie.
She's traumatized, suffering hallucinations in the subway.

The movie doesn't end with a scream, and I too think she looks reliefed the at the end of very last scene, not terrified.

And it's pretty obvious that the violent, not-so-devoted, rapist, cult-member didn't eat the muffins because he knew they were tampered with. The "their pretty addictive comment" gives it away. Also him saying that "I can't see the signs of god" gives away that he's not actually beliving in any of this (tho he is possibly trying to). He uses the cult as an excuse to live out his lsut for violence and he knows that to some degree.

But above all, the scar, defenitly gives away that there was no apocalypse. She is still alive after it. Everything else hardly makes sense. Thanx for noticing.

One thing i'm not entirely sure about is this: Is the girl commiting suicide in the subway actually the asian girl from later on? Commits suicide because she cant cope with the events?

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I think the muffins were contaminated by ergot, a kind of fungus that grows on rye, and that can cause terrifying hallucinations. The envelope on the train at the start of the film has the word "ergot" written on it.

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EXACTLY, dfutrelle.

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A couple of other 'clues' regarding this:
1. At the beginning of the movie, after the shower, she sits down to turn off the bleak radio news and next to the radio is the Carl Sagan book, 'The Demon Haunted World', that Mike was reading when she met him on the subway platform. So, maybe, when she opens her eyes at the end... instead of demons she sees Mike, who had been making his way to her after all the crazy folks killed themselves. Then they get together and become a couple... yay?
2. Julie is first introduced (headphones on) singing along to some song with the lyrics "Saint Anthony's fire" which is an old name for ergot poisoning. There are songs with that name but none of the ones I looked at matched what she seemed to be listening to/singing.

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"also, the beginning of the film(of karen showering and lounging in her apartment) was really the end of the film, and happened after all the subway scenes. this is evident by the scar on her shoulder that you can see in the shower, it's the scar from when the crazy horny cult member sliced her with a knife while trying to rape her."
Wow. I rewatched this just a couple of weeks ago and never even noticed that, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Yet another reason it can be appreciated on revisits.
Thanks again, I'll check that out.

"Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!"

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When I came to the DB I was surprised to see how many people thought the ending was ambiguous.

I thought it was pretty clear:

The muffins were drugged
There was no apocalypse
There is NO SUCH THING as demons!!!

This was all part of the fruity cult members plan. Imagine those muffin baskets at a few dozen companies, hospitals, TV/Radio stations around the city. Combined with a couple hundred brainwashed cult members, you could pull off a minor scale apocalypse for one night.

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Now that's scary thought right there.

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The hallucinogenic muffin conclusion is unequivocally correct, in my opinion. Although I did entirely miss the connection in my viewing, a review after reading your postings led to noticing that the envelope to Vivian on subway near the intro had the text "clavicep purpurea" and "ergot" written upon it.

Clavicep purea is a ergot producing fungus that grows on rye (a chief ingredient in Whiskey and some BREADS). The most well known symptom of ergotism is LSD like hallucinations and psychoses(i.e. the cult's belief that its the end of the world and the witnessing of "God's signs"). Another symptom of ergotism (ergot poisoning) is convulsions (note the seizure of one of the cult members attributed to possession in the scene where Frank casts doubt). Another Symptom is desquamation(shedding of skin), this is seen as the bodies are cast away and give birth to demons. Ergot poisoning (as well as other hallucinogens such as the belladonna plant) are commonly associated with witches/bewitchment (note the use of the term "bewitched me" during the second attempted rape scene). Also in the same scene note the talk about having to take a "major dump" between two of the characters that had consumed the muffins (although this connection is harder to make, another symptom of ergotism is gastrointestinal disturbance, including diarrhea)

Interestingly, hallucinogenic drugs have also been reported to aid in brainwashing by making one more susceptible to suggestions. The American CIA (fruitlessly) studied LSD as a possible method for brainwashing because they feared that the Soviets had the ability to brainwash American soldiers using unknown and highly advanced understandings of the human mind (in reality, the Soviets were never capable of this feat). Research the MKULTRA experiments for more information on the topic. This would fit the cult members brainwashing and suggests that some of the cult members hadn't eaten the muffins and were more resistant to brainwashing.

Also to suggest the events were purely mental, reference the literature in the beginning story. The first was titled "Hear the Voice" (both a religious reference and a simultaneous reference to madness), this was dropped by Vivian. Note that Josh? was carrying Carl Sagan's (absolutely wonderful) "Demon Haunted World", a criticism of ignorance and anti-scientific spirit. In his book on promoting science as "the candle in the darkness", Sagan points out the dangers of anti-scientific attitudes induced by belief in religion and other paranormal forces. The presence of Sagan's book in the movie seems intended to warn viewers of the dangers of blind indoctrination and openly anti-scientific attitudes (some suggest that the Salem Witch Trials were the result of ergot poisoning, I however, am doubtful).

Edit: I just thought to add that William Burroughs in one of his tomes ("Naked Lunch", "Junkie", or "Nova Express) wrote a few lines about LSD not being effective on the already psychotic because their world was already similar to that of an LSD trip. Burroughs proposed LSD (based on someone else's research, I presume) as a possible treatment for schizophrenia in particular. Note that the psychotic cult member (the blonde "wannabe rapist") self-mutilates among the final scenes (a sign of his psychoses). His not seeing the signs of God like everyone else may be an indication that he was already mad and therefore not witnessing events as any sort of "unusual".

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Another subtle hint - when the asian girl is sitting on the sub and singing along to her headphones, she is singing a song about "St. Anthony's Fire" -- St. Anthony's Fire is a term used for ergot poisoning which causes hallucinations.

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Excellent analysis. I think you're dead on target.
____________
"I'm something new entirely. With my own set of rules. I'm Dexter. Boo."

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Thank you for this post. It was very enlightening. I enjoyed this movie a lot without realizing how well thought out it was. Now I am VERY impressed.

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That is just cool, you really found out a lot! I also noticed the book "demon haunted world" lying next to the radio in the beginning...
Wonder how people in the cinema should get all those conclusions without the possibility to watch the beginning again ;)
really would love to know everything that was said in the radio, think it was a listing of how much people died and where and it is sum up to 900 "in that region".
Thanks for putting it all together here!

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In the opening scene on the subway car, the large white envelope says (at first) "To Karen claviceps purpurea ergot."

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I personally think so think so- Patrick also taunts one of them about the "delicious muffinss" and how they're "almost addictive", and the metro worker says his wife has been feeding him nothing but muffins for days- but I liked how it never actually came right out and told us, and he gives nothing away in the commentary either. It's one of the few horror films where ambiguity actually works for it.
I just rewatched it today and I think it's a great horror with a nice sense of unpredictability about it and a creepy tone, despite having action elements to it, a rare combination and it worked.
But I personally think it was mass hysteria brought on by the laced muffins.

"Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!"

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Patrick also taunts one of them about the "delicious muffinss" and how they're "almost addictive", and the metro worker says his wife has been feeding him nothing but muffins for days-


muffins and rye bread, actually :-D




http://www.drunkduck.com/2_Bitter_4_Words/ ~

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Yeah, that too only that wasn't alluded to as much.

"Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!"

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But I personally think it was mass hysteria brought on by the laced muffins.

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Agreed, and on that note I shall never eat another muffin again.


"I am not a complete idiot, some parts are missing."

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muffins of the Desolate One hehe

Tell you what I got on my side - the confidence of youth.

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