its about time that ppl embraced a low-budget film which expresses our sorrows. for those who refuse to acknowledge, i'd like to share that it's tiresome being shown as evil without justice.
the scenes in the film are merely based on true events that took place in iraq and which has been aired around the world.
I, the Turk!
low budget?
it was 10 million
thats the most expensive movie ever made in turkey
I guess they really wanted to show people their version of the truth, seeing as how there are many many anti-muslim films and documentaries being made by America.
From what little I know, this seems to be more truthful than the American ones judging by the huge amount of people classing this as anti-american propaganda...
Then again anything that so much as hints that America is not as 'good' as they claim to be is classed as anti-american.
So, Guantanamo is a science-fiction? Maybe those naked mocked prisoners...
shareYou meant to say to say "those naked, mocked TERRORISTS who have killed American troops" right?
Mocked? Got any evidence other than one over-zealous American being guilty of that (and punished for it)?
So does America always have to be the good guy? Well, seeing that we are the best country in the world, yes!
If you had any proof they are terrorists they wouldn't be kept on foreign soil. They would be prosecuted in an international court. You call every guerilla fighter a terrorist nowadays even those who don't target civilians. Don't you have laws in your own country that says it is ok to shoot at trespassers? Then stop trespassing other countries or you will get a few shots back!
Offensive "proactive" defence has a price and that is you get hated by the rest of the world. You might be immature enough to think you don't need the rest of the world but I assure you that is not the truth.
Post Of The Decade
shareCould not have put it better. Bravo!
shareSo, outside of hitting the twin towers, how many US Soldiers or Americans have been killed when they weren't invading another country, toppling its government, throwing it into chaos, ruining its infrastructure and thereby causing even more chaos through lack of medical care, clean water, fuel etc.?
You send your soldier boys where they shouldn't be sticking their nose, they die. Fair and square I say. Don't want them to die, then keep them in your own country. You can't have both.
(Note: This mostly applies to Iraq, since Afghanistan wasn't even a country when the various armies went in there, just an empty patch on the map.)
Well, seeing that we are the best country in the world, yes!
Apparently you havent seen alot of these films and documentaires........The whole premise is that the US has Islamic extremist enemies, but not Islam as a whole. It's pretty easy to see, if you have actually seen anything at all. Do the world a big favor, dont jump to conclusions, or regurgitate what you have been spoon-fed. There are plenty of American films, documentaries, books, tv shows, news articles, and cartoons that portray the US as anything but 100% good and virtuous, and aside from a few ignorant, closed-minded idiots, no one thinks they are un-American. You have no idea what you are talking about.
TV? Who wants to see us on TV? Look at him, he's ugly!
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why always all those overly critic movies about america are not blockbusters nor "praised" at hollywood i wonder? mmmm
shareMany anti-Muslim films????? Where are they? I've only seen one, "Obsession," and it's so right-on-the-money that it's scary. Perhaps we should forget about all the PC crap and start telling it like it is.
share[deleted]
are you a danish 5th grader or something? you think not all muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are muslims? you've got to be joking...
sharecheck this out wise-guy..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-600397827976179049
Where are they ?
watch this & you will find them :
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4157QYY3o4
no offense, but your all being idiots. stop trying to defend this movie as if it were so much more truthful than anything made in america, and as far as the claims that america makes a bunch of pro-itself movies and anti muslim ones, am I the only one who realizes that the two most succesful american documenteries were made by that sweet, US loving ape, michael moore?
Im not saying this was a bad movie by any means. just when you need to defend it, defend it for what it is, an entertaining piece of FICTION.
I hope you are joking. Moore's 9/11 movie was no more of a documentary then the Borat movie.
This looks like an interesting movie to say the least.
i agree, but that not the opinion of most of america (which sucks way too much). anyways, i was just trying to make the point that the idea of america only praising itself in film is ignorant. Moore's movies are purely propoganda, but they are american movies. i geuss a bettr example would be "broken links" (i think thats the title). its one of those movies about the conspiracies of 9/11 and how the american government was involved in it. whether or not you agree, the point is its not self praising of america in any way.
i'd even go a step further and say its omewhat become popular culture to trash america. its rare you find a celebrity today (in america) who will say something good about it, or for that matter, a celebrity who will even keep their mouth shut.
(this reply goes to the original post)
The answer is "yes", if you make a movie where a muslim or (foreigner by any other non-christian religion) is the hero and americans the villains, it doesn't sell. To a big part because of people posting on boards like these; claiming it's unamerican, it's fiction, it sucks and so forth without even having seen the film or knowing what it's based on.
A famous example of this is "Casualties of War", one of the most critically acclaimed warflicks every made, but was rejected by several of the biggest studios. Why? Because it was considered anti-american in nature, even though it was in fact based on a real story.
An american author, I do unfortunately not remember which one on top of my head, claimed this is because americans have bad self confidence as a nation due to their relatively short, virtually non-existing history, which sounds logical. The bad self confidence can also be clearly seen in the so-called patriotism, which americans seem keen to express, and is also used as a reason to belittle europeans, muslims and pretty much anyone who isn't pro-american.
Amusingly enough (?) the war crimes commited by american soldiers in, for instance, "Saving Private Ryan" seems to pass by without reaction! I guess it's ok now, fifty years later, to admit that americans commited war crimes. And in another fifty years, maybe we'll se film as honest as "SPR" about the so-called War on Terrorism, too. I can barely wait!
/Johan
The bad self confidence can also be clearly seen in the so-called patriotism, which americans seem keen to express, and is also used as a reason to belittle europeans, muslims and pretty much anyone who isn't pro-american.
BTW I've always liked Dwight D. Eisenhower's definition of leadership.
"Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it."
By this definition Bush hasn't been a good leader but neither was Chirac nor Gerhard Schroeder.
Thank you for proving my point.
/Johan
Typical European.
Blames America for everything and then either can't or refuses to understand WHY Americans dislike them when it is explained.
BTW favorite all-time European blame the "Big Bad Americans" remark.
Jacques Chirac blaming America for France's piss poor economy. Like we forced them to create a welfare state and invent the four day work week or something.
Second favorite a French politician smiling and then remarking French Fries were invented in Belgium when a reporter asked him about "Freedom Fries".
While I'll admit "Freedom Fries" were idiotic it was obvious that he simply could not wrap his brain around what two words meant to the deteriorating relationship of the two countries.
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Yesterday I stepped in some dog poo. Personally I blame America, eventhough it was probably the work of a happy Alsatian. :D
No Americans are not responsible for everything that is wrong. The Problem is they don't take responsibility for anything! Self rightesnous should become much harder with their trackrecord. The current attrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan are only the most recent additions to this and yet they prefer to believe the people resent them for their great wines or their economic success. One Turkish movie or any movie for that matter won't change that so we might as well stop trying.
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I can remember many many movies, articles, books, newscasts etc. on the criminal doings of the Bush regime. Yet that didn't stop the majority of Americans to vote that administration into power for a second term. Then again, Hitler had outlined his plans and intentions in detail in Mein Kampf, a bestseller before his election to the office of Reichskanzler. That didn't stop the Germans either now did it?
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"At the start of the Iraq war Americans didn't go off on the French because they didn't merrily join in we did it because they were so publicly critical of the US."
And damn right they were, too, it turns out.
casulties of war was, simply put, awful. it really just wasn't a good movie. anyways, that scene in Private Ryan never goes without reaction, do you watch it with americans ever? maybe we dont cry outand scream about the horror of war, but we certanly notice whats going on.
shareThis film is as much propeganda as anything we Americans puts out. We are ALL guilty of that. All of you need to get off your high horses, sheesh.
And if you don't think an American shooting up a container full of helpless civilians as anti-American propeganda you don't know what propeganda is. This NEVER happened. I'm sure alot of the movie did makes some good points though, I'll have to see it.
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thats where your wrong. moore's films weren't just issues of point of view. he actually lies in them. this makes them more propoganda than documentary.
Example:
in Bowling for colombine, theres that scene in which he seems to purchase a gun from a bank in a matter of hours without a background check. In reality, he was forced to wait the standard waiting period and was given multiple background chacks, you wouldnt know this due to some fancy editing though.
The fact is he's a liar.
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
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but your wrong. look up the definition of the word. Moore's movies, in addition to numerous others, are by definition, not documentaries.
According to Dictionary.com, a Documentary is:
Movies, Television. based on or re-creating an actual event, era, life story, etc., that purports to be factually accurate and contains no fictional elements.
therefore, by cutting up film and slinging lies (remember, moore isnt "altering truth", he is lying) he is not making a documentary.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/documentary
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!
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Bible is full of lies.
shareokay...
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
"You meant to say to say "those naked, mocked TERRORISTS who have killed American troops" right?
Mocked? Got any evidence other than one over-zealous American being guilty of that (and punished for it)?
"
omg,are you bush's nephew??
even the FBI complained about the torture and mocking of the "terrorists",so its a fact that they treat people inhumane,and how can a 15 year old be stuck in guatanamo?or the fact that the most prisoners are innoncent but wont be released because they are still searching for proof that they are...
its utterly disgusting and inhumane and typical american,like business-america makingdeals with hitler and supported the third reich(untill germany picked the side of japan),read some history books instead of watching fox news..
He watches FOX and you watch CNN. your both getting opposite sides of the same story so dont tell someone their stupid for choosing the other side.
I have no problem with a terrorist in GITMO being tortured for information. It's the cheapest, easiest way to keep our borders safe. And as far as i'm concerned, the second someone takes a shot at a soldier, he looses his rights, whatever they may be.
And since you seem to have a very low opinion of Americans, would you like to tell everyone what moraly upright country you come from?
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
cornsaladisgood are you actually saying that "american citizens can not be tortured for information because everyone is innocent until proven guilty but terrorists nooo they are guilty until proven innocent so they must be tortured for information even if they might be innocent, just passing by" and that people are not allowed to defend their houses being raided by some other country's troops even when american law states that every single american citizen has a right to buy weapons to defend their houses??? you are conflicting with your own government...
sharethats not what im saying. If an american took a shot at a cop he should be treated the same way.
Lets's say some guy kidnaps and hides a little girl. If he is caught by the cops and refuses to give up the position of the girl i think they should be able to torture him for the girl position.
I also think that american soldier should have to get a "warrant" before he raids someone's home. If soldiers choose to raid a home without "serving" a warrant than the man living there has every right to defend himself (assuming he's innocent). No need to point out I'm conflicting with my government, I know I am.
The problem here is that your assuming that I agree with the actions of my government, that anyone can be tortured. That's just not true. If someone chooses to engage troops without provocation, or is found in his home with, say, a few rockets, a cache of AK-47's and a plan to kidnap and murder civilians or aid workers, then yes, i believe torture is acceptable for the soul purpose of gaining needed information.
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
yea but the event you're talking about is being done on american soil by american citizens... what if another country's soldiers raided american people's houses and tortured them... they would have the right to defend themselves right? then why shouldn't iraqi people?
shareI would like to hear cornsalads comment to this. I would also like him to comment on why all men arent created equal? And by that I mean why some men are innocent until proven guilty and some men doesnt even get a fair trial?
I thought America fought for freedom and the "right" values. Does this torturing thing without trials belong to these values which you want to impose on the world?
For the record. I have no idea how US CNN works, but CNN International exactly treads the party line. They've never once spoken up against the Bush regime, they just show Bush speeches without further commentary for the most part (excluding more personal programs like Larry King where people just speak their own opinion). This goes so far that some important seeming news bits never make it to CNN. I usually triple-check CNN, Reuters and the UK Guardian for my news and a lot of 'bad' news for the US, their troops in Iraq or the government plain never make it to CNN.
But again, maybe it's more liberal in the US.
So, outside of hitting the twin towers, how many US Soldiers or Americans have been killed when they weren't invading another country, toppling its government, throwing it into chaos, ruining its infrastructure and thereby causing even more chaos through lack of medical care, clean water, fuel etc.?
My point is. The planing of the tower was a terrible thing. Getting Al Qaeda and the Taliban regime that supported them and gave them succor for it was fair and square.
Everything that's happening in Iraq however is something that the USA and the US Soldiers have brought down on themselves by being the direct aggressor in this conflict. If someone invaded the US and removed George Bush from power, ruined the power grid, the economy, the road network, lines of medical supplies and so on, dragged off your neighbours, flew them off to Iran and held them in cages in the desert... and then instated new elections and set up Ralph Nader (not even Hilary Clinton) as the new President of the USA... I'm pretty sure there'd be a lot of people who'd be very unhappy, and a lot of people resorting to armed violence against the invaders/occupational force. Don't you think?
Im curious, why is 24 anymore propoganda than this movie? do you think it is wrong for them to portray arabs as terrorists or is there another reason?
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
I think the US ally Saudiarabia for one should object to the portrait of arabs as terrorists.
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I think you are dead wrong when you suggest that the makers of 24 try to push some political agenda in their show. Their main (and probaly sole) objective is to make their show popular so that they earn more for their work. To be popular, you need to reflect popular sentiments and not political correct and objective facts. Fact is, most Americans can't or won't differentiate between Islam and Terror and fact is most have allready accepted that their country abducts, tortures and unlawfully detaines people withouth a charge. So showing torture and interrogation scenes on TV is simply a reflection of reality. If you now expect the TV show makers to relativate AMerica's position in the world you are asking too much. This will loose them all their audience, because the accepted TV convention is that America is allways the good guy and even if crooked Americans are shown, the Heroe that saves the day is usually an AMerican patriot.
share[deleted]
About torture: yes that is reality, but 24 shows no criticism at all. The message is that it is ok and and human rights are ok to break when national security is at stake.
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So yeah, does America have to be the good guy?
No, not at all. Not any more than any other country, really.
Personally I think a movie such as this can only be healthy for a country where patriotism can reach such ridiculous levels that some are so blinded by their own ego-stroking views, despite having done absolutely nothing for their country themselves, that a movie like this actually causes such a debate.
I'm not saying this movie is an accurate portrayal of what is going on, but it's a necessary portrayal nonetheless as what is normally spoonfeed to the people isn't any less inaccurate.
Do you all really dilude yourselves into thinking America is the only country that engages in "secret actions" and portrays itself as the ultimate moral authority? And watch "Munich" if your so concerned about the portrayal of Israel in entertainment today.
And on another note; who else should 24 show detonating nukes on american soil? asians? french? the soviets? the fact is the only major terrorist attack on amercan soil was done by Arabs and the vast majority of attacks world wide continue to be done by arabs. it just makes a ton more sense. Also, if you watched the show, you'd know the plot goes much deeper than a couple of extremists attacking. Americans are involved almost every time. They also continue to take stance against many Bush initiatives. In the most recent episode, they explained that a group of people being illigaly detained (who were all honest american citizens) were driven to terrorism because of the unfair and illegal way they were treated. One of the most evil people on the show is the seceratary of defense to the prsident.
You blindly attack the show on no reasonable basis. If you want TV and movies to stop portraying arabs as terrorists than do something about arabs commiting terrorism and stop complaining about how poeple show it.
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
you know how everybody in america complains about racism and other forms of discrimination... do you have any idea why is that??? because almost all the time on a tv show or a movie the guilty party is a person who is not white... a thief is an african-american, a murderer is a native indian, a mobster is italian-american and of course a bomber is what else, a middle eastern...
another thing, of course america is not the only country engaged in secret actions but america's secret actions are no secret so it looks mor hypocritical... and i wonder why doesn't an american tv show or a movie portray a secret agents of countries such as the united kingdom or france involved in "secret actions"...
missed the last part.
If you watched TV you'd stop lying to yourself. Ever see Law and Order? Boston Legal? the vast majority of people on these shows ARE white
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
yes i've seen them... and you are right about the majority of people in there being white... they put a token black guy into the cast and it's done... they simply are not showing their real agenda... but they are doing it by hiring white people all the time....
sharei get it now. the government is simply there to conspire against and keep you down. there simply is no pleasing you
O&A PARTY ROCK!!!!
Does American always have to be the 'good guy'?
No, not especially. We aren't always the good guy. What I object to is that the portrayal is not nuanced, or complete, or three-dimensional. Americans = Thugs. Arabs = Virtuous victims. And that's just about as realistic as the way Arabs are portrayed in films such as, say, "True Lies." So, if you embrace this movie as a righteous and accurate portrayal of America and Americans, well, it doesn't make you any better than the all they guys who lined up to get tickets for movies like "Navy SEALS" and cheered whenever an Arab got shot.
Also, have any of you even seen the way some American movies portray the American government? I mean, come on! How about "Enemy of the State" a cheesy (and very high-grossing) action film where an innocent man is persecuted by the NSA because of a crooked politician? How about "Prince of the City" about police corruption? How about "The Siege" where American soldiers (admittedly in a response to Islamic extremists) turn a New York borough into a detainment camp, imprisoning innocent people (including the son of an FBI agent simply because of this family relations) and engage in torture? And that's just for starters. If we weren't capable of self-criticism, wouldn't our movies always show Americans as nothing less than the ultimate heroes of the world? If we all believed our government could do no wrong, movies about corruption in government and politics would never get made.
All I'm saying is that if you think it's OK to portray all Americans as violent criminals, fine. Just don't whine about the way your particular country, religion, or nationality is ever portrayed.
COD MW2- a war started by America. And it's a popular game even in America.
shareNo, there is a profound problem with that last paragraph and it is with the order of the phrasing: You shouldn't whine about how you are portrayed when you are getting the same treatment. You threw the biggest rocks and you threw them first.
Do me a favour and don't talk about being subject to racism in film. So far nobody has topped "300" when it comes to pure, vitriolic racism on film. And that film made more than half a billion dollars in profit. Made in America.
I have studied Turkish film and this film has a rather low production value to it. The characters are paper-thin and the plot is laughably poor. The mode of speech and behaviour exhibited by the actors, especially the Turkish, remains inauthentic down to its fibre. It's Americanized and probably made so in a deliberate way.
My own translation of this film is that it is a caricature of the Hollywood action formula where an American hero, who usually displays the American virtues, sets out to protect the idealized America, Americans and the American way of life from foreign threats. Except now, the characters have been replaced with Turks, the victims being subjugated Iraqis, the way of life being Islam and the threat being scheming American invaders.
The response however carried the greatest impact. Calls for boycotts were made. Even American army commanders called out to American to avoid this film. Seems like a nerve has been struck. And yet most of the atrocities shown n the film are rooted in some reality.
But going by your same logic, the film doesn't show all Americans to be evil; one soldier with some conscience threatens to report the crimes, but gets killed by his commander. What? Not good enough for you?
Furthermore, all film industries worth a damned in this world show perfect ability to cast their own countrymen as bad guys. You will find plenty of Turkish films where Turks themselves are shown as bad guys. You will find plenty of Russian, Italian, Iranian, French, Greek and German films that do the same. This tradition is none of Hollywood's credit; it goes back to traditional forms of theatre.
I like your translation of the film as a caricature of the typical Hollywood crap. That makes sense and helps me view the film a little differently. However, I think it's patently wrong for you to say I threw a stone. I am not responsible for anything Hollywood does -- good or bad. So please, lose the righteous indignation. Secondly, with your argument regarding the film having one American solider with a conscience is the same argument Hollywood execs would use to say certain films were not racist because they had one African American character who as a doctor or a lawyer. It doesn't hold water in my opinion. So, don't tell me about racism. Two wrongs don't make a right.
shareWest if strange today. 20 "western" countries all under the "political correctness" doctrine.
"All people are equal. There should be no borders. There is no "insert ethic group" country. All are immigrants"
West are now multi cultural while they kill of their own ethnic population. I know: I have fled Sweden.(70 years ago: 99.2% ethnic Swedes. Now: about 55%. Ethic cleansing"
US/West think they are the "good guy"
The problem with Political correctness is that the doctrine is wrong: we are different. We have different cultures, values, religion and genetic background. With Political correctness those differences are not accepted and is today solved by bombning people.
USA for example have no self criticism. They today have troops in 50 countries. Why? "Fight for democracy and freedom".
No. If a people want to like "insert anything"its their choice in their own country. Its such an insane idea west have today to bomb people to "think right"
Do some studying: Almost all war in modern times are because if ethical reasons. Either we live in Pax America: We take all ethic groups and intermingle them = "no wars" or we are anti racist and live in a multi ethic world. Each ethnic group in their home country.
Political correctness is the most anti democratic and dangerous brainwashing that have happened in west. Its key to the "power" to be richer while we starve. 400 people today owns over 10000 billion. We could end world hunger, poverty sickness if these people could accept 100 million/year. Whole west is corrupt today since money are created from thin air. (The 400 rich: You have a checking account at the bank. You get your salary 10 dollars put into your account. This is not the banks money, but your. Its not an asset for the bank. Stil: The bank is allowed to lend out 100 dollar from this 10 dollar. 90 dollar created from nothing and generate interest. Today money: 97% dont exist and generate interest. )
Who invented political correctness ? (Trotski)
Who run the Frankfurt school Political correctness?
Who owns the banks?
Who owns the media in west?
Who own the large corporations in west?
In west: The muslim hate spewed by media is insane. Hint: Who own the media. Is that the reason for the hate?
Take Sweden where I come from. 4 owners of 90% of the media. All the same ethnic group. Not Swedish. Legally Im not allowed to write what ethic group it is. The insane thing is: no one in west would accept if 90% of the media was owned by muslims since its not part of the historic culture values. But why is it accepted that its own by this group of people? Same who own many banks/large corporations/invented Political Correctness)
Its funny..
Today 190 non western countries are more free in mass than west.
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