MovieChat Forums > The 11th Hour (2007) Discussion > Neocons!, help me understand

Neocons!, help me understand


How do you rationalize rejecting the science of global warming while embracing the invisible-man-in-the-sky dogma?

Why don't you reject all science in favor of God?

Or do you just cherry pick everything?

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In reference to most of the nonsense in the bible that most christians don't even know is there, you could saythat they all cherry pick. Biblical literalism doesn't work, and if they don't believe that then they're just making their own morality and claiming it's from the bible. So, yes, you're right. It's called hypocrisy.

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Two of the dumbest, most ignorant posts I've seen in a while.

(I'm not a Christian and not a neocon).

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you state nothing in response except for ad hominem attacks. you my friend, are the idiot here.

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[deleted]

>>>Neocons!, help me understand

There is no more evidence God doesn't exist than there is he does exist. On that count, both are faith positions. That's why atheism is a type of religion. It requires faith. Personally, when I see nature and the universe, it would take more faith to believe it all happenned randomly than believing it was God's handiwork. As far as a specific religion, however, (i.e., christianity or islam or hinduism, etc.), I freely admit that part is faith, or preference. Does that answer your question?

And yet I can tell the difference between faith and evidence, and I keep them separate. You, however, cannot distinguish between faith and science, and you mix them both up together. That's why you believe in man-made global warming even though you see no scientific evidence for it. And you call that "science". LOL. Which is pathetic, because it's not. At least I freely admit religion is faith-based, while you claim your beliefs are science. Again, they're not. It's nothing more than anti-corporate, anti-capitalist Leftwing dogma, which basically amounts to a replacement religion for atheists and agnostics which you have confused for science. If your side cared about science, you wouldn't claim "the debate is over". You'd want to hear all sides of the issue. Yet you don't because your belief in man-made global warming is not science, it's faith. You're a religious nut, essentially.


Free speech

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So sad.

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Well said. And it should be noted that the liberals assertion that all conservatives ("neocons", to use their vernacular) are Christian zealots hell-bent on cutting off the head of non-believers - another major religion already owns that method, however - is not even close to truth.

The man-made global warming theory is just that...theory...and will remain so without absolute direct proof of fact. So, to bolster the theory, data is cherry-picked and "non-believers" publicly browbeaten into submission. To promote it as fact, one must "believe" or have "faith"...welcome to the newest religion of the leftwing libs.

"Quit moving your head woman, you'll spill my beer!!"

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Um, clarification: Atheism is the LACK of faith. And please stop with that ridiculous "atheism is a religion" argument. No it's not. Do two things: Look up the definitions of atheism and religion. Vastly different. Try again. Thanks for playing, though.

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You have no proof God doesn't not exist. You have no evidence God does not exist. Yet you believe he does not exist. In fact, you think you KNOW God doesn't exist. Don't look now, but that's called faith. Fundamentalism, actually. LOL.


Free speech

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Is it faith that there is no tooth fairy?

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I’m confused.. Your post is dated last month and yet you write that made global warming has no scientific evidence..
This may have been a point to argue 10-20 years ago, but now there is so much 'FACT' the debate is over in scientific circles..

Also, is does not take faith to not believe in god. If I told you I believe in a tea port that circles earth, does it require ‘faith’ to not believe in the tea pot?
No, it requires a sound logical judgment.
Science does not have to prove god does not exist to make it so, the same as science does not have to prove a tea pot does not circle the globe to make it false.

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Guess a lot of hard work and money has gone into fooling the public that climate change is not happening

"Aug. 13, 2007 issue - Sen. Barbara Boxer had been chair of the Senate's Environment Committee for less than a month when the verdict landed last February. "Warming of the climate system is unequivocal," concluded a report by 600 scientists from governments, academia, green groups and businesses in 40 countries. Worse, there was now at least a 90 percent likelihood that the release of greenhouse gases from the burning of fossil fuels is causing longer droughts, more flood-causing downpours and worse heat waves, way up from earlier studies. Those who doubt the reality of human-caused climate change have spent decades disputing that. But Boxer figured that with "the overwhelming science out there, the deniers' days were numbered." As she left a meeting with the head of the international climate panel, however, a staffer had some news for her. A conservative think tank long funded by ExxonMobil, she told Boxer, had offered scientists $10,000 to write articles undercutting the new report and the computer-based climate models it is based on. "I realized," says Boxer, "there was a movement behind this that just wasn't giving up."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20122975/site/newsweek/page/0/

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[deleted]

You have no proof Fairies doesn't not exist. You have no evidence Fairies does not exist. Yet you believe they does not exist. In fact, you think you KNOW Fairies doesn't exist. Don't look now, but that's called faith. Fundamentalism, actually. LOL.

I made it a bit more "rational"...


Free Beer now!!

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So what if you call it faith? I don't give a damn how you categorize my beliefs, because you calling science "faith" doesn't detract from the fact that absolutely no evidence exists that God exists.
I'll humor you and admit that science is faith. But it sure is a hell of a lot more of a reasonable faith that religion is, seeing as how we can actually, and take careful not of this, we can ACTUALLY support our "faith" with empirical evidence.
Now stop sounding so ignorant.

FREE SPEECH!

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[deleted]

You have no idea of what you speak. Just remember that always.

------------------------------------------
"I'll not be threatened by a walking meatloaf!"

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I agree and I am an atheist. It's hard to see either side when you look at facts and not dogma. If God was all powerfull and real there would be no global warming, cause would you bake the ones you made and love? And If global warming was man made why is it getting worse but smog and polution in general are way down from the 60's and 70's. Suns getting hotter folks. Can we change that?

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There is no more evidence God doesn't exist than there is he does exist. On that count, both are faith positions. That's why atheism is a type of religion. It requires faith

There is no more evidence that your shoe do not fly around your romm at night while you are asleep and no one is looking than that they do. That is why they are both faith positions. To think such magical occurances are not commonplace is a type of religion. It requires faith.

Yup that is exactly what you are stating but are too stuck within your own religion not to see it.

Atheism is not a religion.


It isn't; many theists try and try and try to paint it into that
corner, and yes, people say atheism when asked their religion as a
shorthand way of saying. "I don't buy into that god hype at all."
However, it isn't a religion. It is disbelief. A special name for a
disbelief, only because the belief is so widespread and widespread.
There is many thing people do not believe in, say for instance, UFO
abduction or Santa Claus....Is it a specific "religion" for this
disbelief, NO! Disbelief is not a religion.


So Atheism is not a religion, stop calling it such, or you will be
treated with the scorn appropriate for someone who lies

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Ummm.......so you consider the "invisible-man-in-the-sky-dogma" to be science?

You do realise that's what you've said here, don't you?

For a fundamentalist luddite(not necessarily a neo-con) rejecting AGW theory while accepting the existence of God is logically consistent and is not 'cherry-picking' anything.

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There's a hell of a lot more evidence for global warming than for God.
In fact, there's NO evidence for God. Has anyone seen him or heard him speak?
It's like believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.
I can't believe serious adults actually think there's some guy up in the sky listening to billions of prayers and making things happen in everybody's lives on Earth. I'm sorry, but it's ridiculous.
And to think that a book written by various people thousands of years ago, before printing presses -- then translated by hand, one page at a time, into many other languages over many centuries -- should control anybody's life today is insane.
Police will tell you that eyewitnesses to an event cannot agree on basic facts when they're interviewed five minutes later.
Think, people. Get real.
God is not going to help us with global warming.

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Do me a favor. Understand what you're responding to before doing so.

No one here is advocating a belief in God, much less a belief that God will fix global warming.

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I find it astonishing, to say the least, that one could be so naive as to actually have convinced ones self that it is specifically "neocons" whom believe in a God. I obviously need to point out (this is shameful) that many Liberals, Conservatives, and scientists alike believe in a higher being. Which, consequently, we can assume a portion of the ones preaching global warming are one of these "neocons," by your logic. Religion is not discriminate, my friend.

And you single handedly, on this internet form no less, have convinced and indeed proven wrong the standardized belief that is religion. Well done!

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I personally reject Hollywood Hypocrites who demand we be 'carbon neutral' while flying in private jets and driving their SUV's.

Its not the problem, its the hidden communisim inside the solution.

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<<<<<<<<<<<How do you rationalize rejecting the science of global warming while embracing the invisible-man-in-the-sky dogma?>>>>>>>>>>

Do you have to be a neocon to question politically motivated and bad science? :)

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what a strange discussion is going on here? Nobody seems to realise that the global warming train has runaway by now and going carbon neutral will not change a thing. Who are we to think that we can actually aid in the restoration of the ecological balance. I think there is only one truth and it is this. The planet we live on is our creator, it is the planet that makes life possible and we are only subjects to it. In a way you can say that the earth is our god and we should respect it's rules. We use the man in the sky dogma to give us comfort in thinking that we are not the cause of all our problems. Atheists use the big bad bussiness dogma to blame upon. We are no gods in our own realm but neither are we the hopeless souls dwelling the earth. We are a part of a living ecosystem and we are not respecting the balance this system holds. Nobody can say exactly how the global warming problem will evolve and in what timespan. If that doesn't force us into submission the oil depletion will, soon. I've been doin a lot of reading on the oilpeak issue and i believe it is this that will destroy our global technological society first. It is now widely accepted that the effects of oilpeak will start showing in the next ten years. We can see a lot of the signs today allready. Soon this dreamsociety of ours will become too expensive for the majority of humans. Heck today it is allready too expensive for aproximatly 3 billion people. Our oilbased economy is unsustainable and has proven to be very harmfull to our environment. But crippled by our profitcrazed economy we will not adapt before things get worse. In a way the oilcrash might just be the solution to the global warming problem. Anyway do not believe there is a quickfix or a patch for the problems we face today. The road to equilibrium will be long, hard and loaded with sorrow over the things we once had and have then lost. To user Warlock1 who underlined his post with this phrase: "Its not the problem, its the hidden communisim inside the solution." The world and it's ecosystem we live in is basically a communist system, the planet belongs to no one we share the task of keeping it in good condition and we all profit from the fruits it bears. Communism is an admirable system if it were executed like it is supposed to. But it never has been in our written history. What the russians got after worldwar2 wasn't communism it was state capitalism and yes it was horrible but it wasn't communism. You shouldn't demonise the idea but the way it was executed.

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In a way the oilcrash might just be the solution to the global warming problem
Unfortunately, oil and natural gas depletion will trigger increased use of even dirtier coal, and so oil depletion, per se, will not resolve global warming, and will lead to bigger problems with coal-based pollutants such as sulfer (acid rain) and mercury (fish contamination, etc.).

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I think the original poster was asking a fairly simple question, one which I've always wondered myself: How can the same individual who belives in an invisible being and desires nor requires no proof of any kind of his existence, raise the proof card when it comes to global warming or other scientific ideas? If you don't require proof for one idea presented to you, why do require proof for another? "It takes faith," is what most on this board will probably say, but I've always felt the word 'faith' is thrown around so lazily that you can dismiss any idea or question with a five letter word without taking a minute to do some critical thinking about what it means and why you believe it. Any thoughts?

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What's global warming has to do with beleif in God? o.O Do beleivers attack the global warming science? Why? (Btw, I am atheist, and I think the global warming is a real danger, but just don't understand what's one thing has to do with the other?)

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This is the problem with this kind of argument: nothing gets accomplished.
People who are feeling really bitchy one day decide to pick on others for seemingly important reasons. I will admit that I have seen many liberals/atheist/non-conformists doing a lot of it. And thats the source of the real answer to your real question. What you really were saying was "Why do conservatives dislike us, and why do we dislike conservatives?" The answer is simple: we are too aggressive towards each other. We put this barrier there purposefully, to make an enemy out of a fellow American. I'm 100% a liberal and love all the atheists/ whatever the hell yo want to call them, but I'm not afraid to say that the reason for this division is meaningless.
What we should be arguing is if it harms anyone to believe that this environment crisis really exists. From that point, we all take a stand together against those who wish that this whole thing would go away and they can continue sucking the Earth dry of her precious materials.
Basically, what one lib says to another is Ok, but in a public forum, for the sake of our lives(i mean those of who are still young enough to live past this mid-century), try to be as calm and genial as possible. Otherwise, you drive away people who could have been your fellows, making them turn to support some other *beep* thing like the writers strike. Activism on this issue is paramount, more important than anything we will probably ever see.
The question is not about Contradiction between God and science, for anyone could look at anybody's life and see a contradiction. That is the power of the human brain.
The true question is :"Why can't we use all the superior power that we have to act as shepherds, guardians, keepers of the Earth?" The response to it: Activism!

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Leaving the god question aside, I am very much a global warming skeptic. Not because I have any scientific proof one way or another, but I do have a memory.
And I remember some of these same scientists proclaiming the end is near over green house gasses were predicting doom because of over population, famines, oceans dying, deforestation, depletion of resources, nuclear war, new ice age,aids, pesticides,acid rain, ozone holes, debt crises,y2k etc...
There will always be people trying to frighten you into turning your freedom over to them. "Global warming" is the perfect vehicle for these kyotocrats to grab control of the world capital markets. The same crooks who gave us the corrupt oil for food program, will decide wich nation can grow their economy and who can't. Gee, do you think there might be opportunities for corruption and negative unforseen consequenses? Has anyone considered that maybe the cure could be worse than the disease?

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Bilderberg Group and New World Order, "globalwarming" is part of them...

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From what I hear they believe global warming might be real but think it could be just natural progression of the earth. Instead of humans being the root cause. They usually try to compare it to the ice age. And believe since humans don’t have a lot of recorded data on the earths past conditions that global warming caused by humans can’t be fact.





Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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I'm not providing proof for or against global warming. But, if you have a quest for understanding check out this article. http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm

There's a link within it as well that allows you to view the original publication that this article is discussing.

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me personally, i think so-called 'global warming' is a bunch of BS! ... it's probably pushed to further someone's agenda more than it is a real threat to the world.

cause i figure either way if global warming is real (like they claim) or not, it's exaggerated!

cause so there's so much bs out there you dont know what to believe.... cause i heard it's earth natural cycle to heat up like it's doing and other's claim where gonna be screwed say 100 year down the road etc etc.... i think global warming is overall more towards the BS side.

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mslovak, I'm not going to tell you what to believe. But I am going to ask you to research it for yourself. Saying 'I heard someone say this or that' usually means you have no idea about the subject and someone is using you to give their opinion more weight. Don't allow yourself to be used like that. Check out some literature, check out some websites. Check both sides, see who has the best arguments and proof. And then form your own opinion, based on your own research and understanding of the subject.

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global warming is 1 symptom of the waste we produce. Do you think ocean dead-zones are BS?

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I honestly didn't think that someone has ignorant as mslovak79 would show up here.

"This year I'm voting Republican. The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth."
-Monica Lewinsky

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