Bullfighting.. Cruelty or Tradition? - Manolete (2010) Discussion

[–] ruffiano-25 18 years ago

I am spanish and I think that this "sport" or better said, the way of killing bulls brutally should be eliminated, it's cruel, unnecessary and sadistic. The worst of all is that many people here would like to prohibit the seal's hunting in Canada for being an inhuman activity but they're the first to go to the bullring or at least to hold up this activity.
But I think that if people want that this tradition continues, at least, DON'T KILL BULLS, just play with them but without hurting them.

reply

[–] pinkchampagne221 17 years ago

If a bull is only "played with" in the ring, he would still come out with the same outcome -- which is hamburger meat.

A fighting bull can only appear in the ring ONCE. It becomes too dangerous because it eventually learns that the cape will not hurt its opponent, so it will begin charging the man.

Besides, a fighting bull gets to live to the age of 4 before it enters the ring. 90% of other cattle are lucky to live 19 months before they are shipped to the slaughterhouse and given a dishonorable death. And if there were no bullfights, then there would be no reason to breed "fighting bulls" -- thus they would soon be extinct.

Sorry, but true.

reply

[–] bulnet_84 18 years ago

I am spanish too, and i never liked bullfighting. It ashames me that bullfighing is an icon of spain out of spain.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

the original bullfigthing comes to hispain of the phoenicians.
the bull was a holy animal for the iberians and the bullfigthing was part of his religion .

the oldest know bullfigthing on spain comes to 1200 before crist.

the tradition was keep on the times of romans goths muslims and all the following rules of hispania.

the hispanian bull is agressive and lethal.

this animal cannot be used for anything even his skin is bad .

if the bullfigthing stoped on spain the animal would be dissapear.

on 2001 a grouop of peta boys comes to spain to extremadura to show how the bulls where not danguerous and kind animals.

those fools entered on a walled farm .

Michael bannon died when the bull stomp him .

Laurence hattway died when her lung was stabed by a horn .

Guy toynbee got broke 7 ribs from a bull than charge him.

they claimed they where to film a documental about the spanish bull

I laughed me ass off . i guess they believe so much than all the animals are kind .

A spanish Bull is not a joke and isnt a peacefull animal.

the *beep* yanks could care more about his guns problems or ktrina hurricane damage than about worry for other countrys traditions .

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Maybe but after 8 years runing on the san fermines i has never have a problem . i cant say the same of the last 23 usa and 7 british than have died on the last 15 years.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] savvysearch 17 years ago

I find that the mainstream have a very hypocritical stance when it comes to issues of animals. Meat is no longer a necessity in the rich western world. People live their whole healthy lives as vegetarians, so it's not an excuse to eat animals. But we eat animals because they taste good, because it's cultural, because it's emotionally and gastronomically satisfying.

In essense, we eat meat for ENTERTAINMENT. There is little difference from bullfighting in my opinion, as domesticated cows for meat production live in much worse environs and arguably worse deaths than bulls. We physically don't get our hands bloody, so it's basically buying meat while blaming the butcher.

I'm all for eating meat, but I think people need to realize that it's more of a cultural concern rather than a concern of physical survival.

reply

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dmuns 18 years ago

acheron33, if you have taken part in the encierro for the last 8 years you will have witnessed many gorings and one death (the only other came as a result of a young man having his life-support machine turned off many months later.

Your comment on the 30 other deaths is simply not true, there have been 15 fatalities since records began back in the 1920's, not sure where you got your figures from???

reply

[–] torosysevilla 18 years ago

could be my words!
thank you!
those people don't even know who josé tomas is....

hijadelaluna

reply

[–] torosysevilla 18 years ago

"see if a bullfighter has the balls" to enter into a ring if rules are modifed to "fair rules"?
i recommend you the following:
1. go to s e e a bullfight (preferably with someone who knows about it)
2. walk one entire night with a precession anywhere in spain during the holy week in order to understand the philosophy of bullfighting.it's called sacrifice.
3. go to the countryside where brave bulls are living before they enter the ring.
4. if you actually go to see a corrida de toros, sit in "barerra capote" to see the size of the toro as close from you as possible.so close that you can even smell the blood and "hear" the pride of this beautiful animal.

5. above all: take a good look at the eyes of the bullfighter.

6. reply me and tell me again that a bullfighter doesn't have balls because i honestly think you are missing a pair.

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

i see worse the extreme wrestling than just recently has been become legal on california .

But since it is a tradition of spanish who cares lets hack and slash before even ask .....

i wonder why ava gardner or Hemingway or orson welles liked it...

reply

[–] danielvail-1 18 years ago

Looks like we got ourselves a genuine bullfighting fan here...

All im saying is that the bull gets spired so that it weakens during the fight making it "easier" for the bullfighter to finish it.
The fact that the bull runs around the arena while blood is puring from its back seems unfair for the bull... It constantly weakens during the fight so that in the end it is not much of a fight anymore.

You can't honestly defend the way that the bull is slaughtered.. Dieing a slow and what is most presume a very painfull death...
How can anyone support this so called tradition?

I have personally been to a bullfighting match when I was in Madrid 3 years ago.. Back then I didn't know much about it, other than the bull dies in the end.

You call it a sacrifice.. We have now entered the 21th century, who the hell still make sacrifices, other than some religios people. What exactly are the bulls dieing for? Is it for the audienses amusement, or do the get killed to serve some greater purpose?
Please share your infinite knowledge to the rest of us.

Ohh and one more thing.. why do the cut the bulls ears of and gives them to children when it's over... what's up with that?
Seeing that completely freaked me out...

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] danielvail-1 18 years ago

Well first off, im from Denmark, you know the small country in nothern Europe.

American politics is generally messed up, how people can bring themselves to vote for someone like George W is beyond me, but then again our head of state, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, isn't any better. Both him and Tony blair want to make George as happy as possible so they support him in everything he does..

I am a strong apponent againt the death penalty. Whatever another person has done, killing him, makes the state just just as much a murderer as him.

If you can find any dirt on Denmark, please let me know. We got the Muhammed drawings conflict if thats any help!

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

NAH i could use the good moments on wich your royal family saying racist things agaisnt the sweden i could begin with the growing movement of pseudo nazys and other things .

I could begin to talk about the last 6 danes dead trying to play to bullfigthing with spanish bull.

And worse your beer is one of the most expensive of europa .

reply

[–] gawain-1 18 years ago

Why should our royal family say "racist things" against Sweden? The queen's mother was from Sweden herself.

The other things, however, are spot-on. ;)

reply

[–] danielvail-1 18 years ago

I am not much of a royalist... but im pretty sure that you got your facts mixed up.. just like Gawin said, Queen Margrete 2's is from Sweden and both royal families have a good relationship...your completely off track..

I don't care whether or not 6 danes died while fighting with bulls.. couldn't care less..

You are by the way spot on with our beer prices.. the are off the roof.. but then again, it's so good that you dont mind paying a little ekstra.

The best beers in the world:

Tuborg.
Tuborg Classic.
Carlsberg.

No one tops these 3 brands... maybe heineken..

Ohh and Cerveza tastes like piss..

reply

[–] danielvail-1 18 years ago

I ment to say Queen Margrete 2's MOTHER is from sweden.. her name was Ingrid and she died in.. I think it was about 5 years ago

reply

[–] zhea 18 years ago

woooooooow....

i was wondering if it was a good idea to answer..or even if my opinion has some value for someone who really do not accept non-spanish opinions...

first of all, I trully believe that the matter of the bullfights is not -mainly- that you are killing an animal........we can see thousands of unfair things if we turn on the tv at news time... i think that the problem with the spanish bullfight (i'm not already talking about the South American bullfight coz i know nothing about them)is that BULLFIGHT IN SPAIN REPRESENT THE OLD SPAIN!the Unique, the indivisible, the Roman-Catholic-Apostholic Spain!young people is scandaled because of the cruelty towards a weaked (because, yes, they really treat VERY BAD the bull befor it gets inn the arena)animal, but they are more afraid of what it really means: the past of a nation that we want anymore to come. the bull...el toro...is understood as a noble animal, strong, brave, and so on, and it was taken by all the right wing to represent their thoughts: they were pure, and strong, and noble...and represented the past -- as long as the left was not.

and yes........my opinion might be interesting or not....is it more valued because my ID says i'm legaly spanish??????? or shall my opinion be more valuated if i say that i've attended one bullfight in La Maestranza and i had to gett off becaus i lost my breth because the blood smell? your opinion about the matter (the *beep* blood source that has provoked so many pain), as your feelings about the bullfight, are from another century.

please.americans, chines, australians or chilens...tell your opinion...you are rightful to give your opinion. wether to say that bullfights should be kept or not!

reply

[–] Mariana Cornejo 18 years ago

I also had my doubts about answering this post but here I go.

I know something about this matter. When the bull gets spired is because of a reason, not a ransom form of cruelty. The bull gets out with so many energy (some call it bravery) that it can get a strike in the muscules, like its legs been paralysed. The spear makes the blood flow in order to avoid this congestion. It's weird but true. You may not believe me but it happens, I've seen it. Of course, that lowing of energy allows that the matador's performance would be more "stetical". But ask a matador and certainly he can't use a weakened bull, because it wouldn't help him in his performance.

Besides, the bull DOES have the chance to survive. According to its qualities, its life would be forgiven.

And the matador DOES have the same chance to die. History is full of examples.

When the bull is dead, the people and the president (or judge) would "rank" the performance of the matador. The ear is a level in this rank. There are no numbers or points. The matador can give that "trophy" to whoever he wants, not particularly children. Besides, in Spain, young kids under 10 or 12 years old are not allowed to go to bullfights.

ALSO, inside the culture of Tauromaquia there are many other practices:

Rejoneo: The "matador" is riding a horse. In Portugal, the cradle of this practice, is forbidden to kill a bull so they do their performance and the bull returns to the field.

Pega de forcados: Also created in Portugal. A group of men fights a bull. With their bare hands the men try to stop a bull. By the end one of them plays with the bull by holding to the bull's tail in order to be dragged. They don't bleed the bull and it returns to the field.

Toro embolado: Practiced in the south of France. It's an athletic practice in which men dressed in white compete in order to get a ribbon that is between the horns of the bull. They run and jump in a ring. Very stetic and there's no harm to the bull.

As you can see, the culture of bulls is very rich in that part of Europe and there are many practices, not only the bullfight, which has a story of it's own.

There are many things that people outside this environment doesn't know and can easily misunderstood.

I'm open to all opinions but I don't just get mad and quick to answer with anger (or irony). I'd be an hypocrit if I just say "yes" or "no", "cruelty" or "tradition". First I have to know what I'm about to talk, and not to answer without knowing the subject or because that is pollitical correct.

Now, you would think: "This one thinks bullfights are right, the fellow is on favor, and would desperatly defend what I think it's barbarically wrong". Well, to your surprise, I'm not. It's just that I don't see the world in black and white. I recognize the amount of fine art inspired in bullfights: Literature like Hemingway's, paintings and sculpture like Goya's, Picasso's and Gernica's; music, gastronomy, clothing modes.

Anyway, my answer is: It may be cruel and it may be a tradition, a bit of both. It can be a tradition that can have it's own evolution according to this modern times.

How? Let's have bullfights, let's not kill the bull.

Naive? A bit. The supreme task of killing can be done with a retractile sword that marks the place where it hits so that the people can judge, but without killing the bull.

It's an idea.

Hope this may help.

Good luck.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] pckp 18 years ago

Hey ppl,
I see some of you are goin off topic. I have to say the first times I wached a bullfight I felt confused, disgusted and ignorant. After years and years in Spain and hearing or watching about bullfights and a bit of information of what it was about, I began to understand and like it.
I don't believe it is a sacrifice but rather a hand-to-hand between Man and Nature. It is really difficult to understand how can we like it if you've never seen one, or seen a few and don't understand a thing a bout it. Most of the corridas are dull, but every now and then there is this one bull and bullfighter that will stop your heart, you can't breathe and the time seems to stop, it is then when you realise what bullfighting is about. It's not about just killling the bull, not just entertaining people, not just attracting tourists.
About the bleeding, it is a necessary thing since if they don't do that to the hull in the beginning, the corridas would last forever. When you speak of a "painful death" it is clear you don't understand much about this breed of bull. This breed is ancient and really has no significant use as it cannot be domesticated and their milk nor meat are good enough to consume. Arguably, you can say this breed wouldn't exist today thanks to bullfights. Anyways, these bulls are known for their rage, when they are attacking someone, their brains release endorphines which doesn't allow them to feel any pain. I must agree, that sometimes, due to the bullfighter's fault, some bulls are killed inhumanely, and they seem to suffer, but that's not the expected result and bullfighters get ashamed and booed. Fortunately this doesnot happen very often.
Anyways, I'm sorry for such a long post, I just felt I needed to inform a little bit more so people can make a more thoughtful decision about it and not think of us as crazy blood lusting bastards.
Cheers

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] jertoons 18 years ago

if you're being humiliated and tortured in the ring, who would care HOW LONG the dullards have been doing this -- besides IT ONLY MAKES IT WORSE to think how very many animals have been treated this way over history -- as if animals or people no longer care about others once they find out how humans have behaved over history, sheesh

there is NOTHING that can justify this

Jerry

ps -- I don't eat steak OR buy leather products

pps -- I'll never see another Adrien Brody movie, either

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Dont worry . when a bull stomp and pierce you with his horns will think ooooh poor human lets stomp him fast so he did not suffer.

mwhahaha dude how old are you .

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] The 12th Monkey 18 years ago

Before a bull goes into the ring in Spain, law dictates that they must have spent four years in pasture. There are a few of these pastures near my house and they're almost infinite - they live like fat cats for those four years.

I know they die painfully, but they sure as hell don't live that way.

It's a cultural tradition, and a hell of a lot more worthwile than watching American Idol. Four years of heaven for an hour of hell, as opposed to normal cattle which arent' treated half as well.

reply

[–] taylorcolemiller 18 years ago

First---to the above person who said that Americans should mind their own business and if bullfights are going to be banned, they should be banned by the Spanish. They have been. In Cataluña and the Canary Islands. So it's not just outsiders who look down upon your "cultural tradition."

Second--bullfighting is WILDLY UNPOPULAR amongst the younger generation in Spain. In fact--in response to another above me comment, American Idol has more youth viewers than bullfights. According to Reuters, 72% of students in Spain are opposed to bullfights, finding them archaic and boring.

Third--No one has mentioned such known practices as "afeitado" or shaving the bulls horns down so their aim is off---or placing petroleum jelly in their eyes before a corrida. If the fight is so fair, one must genuinely wonder why such things are done.

Fourth--Bullfights may have been culturally impactful at one point--during the years of the dictator Franco. It was also during those years the bullfighters were GOOD. Some claim that a bullfight is more humane, because the sword is driven into the heart and the bull dies instantaneously---well, only if the bullfighter is good. And today's bullfighters are just not.

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

the reason of the ban of the bullfigthing on cataluna is more for the natinalism uprisising because the bull is seen as the spanish symbol.

2 last time i chek no one here w atch american idol but well.

reply

[–] zhea 18 years ago

acheron 33...are you kidding? nationalism...uprising???? there are times that i feel really embarassed because other's behaviour...you better find who's rulling in Catalunya, so far from nationalism... and far far awy from "uprising" nationalism.

mariana cornejo... i really agree with you, not on your thoughts, but on your way to expose it. thanx to bringing us so wonderful explanation.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

of course and look the votes if we also find than on last elections just 45% of catalans did bother to vote and the fact than the goverment is formed by a cohalition of nationalism and rigth wing political class ...

Howver when his omw goverment sinkhole buildings the others formers of spain we must pay new houses but well.

Nationalism ? attemp to ban castellano oficial ttongue of spain from schools and universitys.

Law to make the producers of cinema to make the titles dubbed to catalan or they will be grabbed with more tax . in fact this new lwas make producers lost 36% of the profist of the films on 4 first weeks .

Ban of bullfigthing with the feeblee excuse than the bull is the national animal of the castillans... go read interview with carod robira on el mundo on 14 of janurary on el mundo spanish newspaper.

University teachers than teach history maths ...... fired for give the class on spanish and not catalan .

26 teachers some of them with 35 years at their backs,

anyone remember the famous catalunya is not spain on the barca games ?.

So funny than his vice president and president where memebrs of the foundation francisco franco the dictator of spain lalalala.

amking taxes for cars not catalans than drive on catalans highways .... funny when the money come from the state founds not from generalitad ....

attemp to Ban the Valenciano older tongue than catalan but than they claim is a dialect of the catalan ... so bad than the first writer of valencinao begins to write 367 years before than catalans ,,,,,

uhm yes i think spain got a nationalism problem but dont worry we are enough dumbs to start another war for such stupidity .

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Si claro Veras yo soi catalan sabes ni soi fanatico ni soi gilipollas .la
la gente de este pais esta asta los huevos de la mucha mierda que tienen que tragar por culpa de 4 gilipollas que no tienen ni puta idea de historia.

Veras yo no soi nacionalista pero vivo en cataluña y puedo decir alegremente que puedo trazar mi familia asta 1378 sabes?.

Sin embargo esta demostrado que el 60 % de los votantes nacionalistas catalanes provinen de familias de imigrantes andaluces y extremeños .

Que cachondeo no ?

Y si eres valenciano entonces me das pena macho por que precisamente la mayor victima del nacionalismo catalan son los valencianos .

con respecto a tus encuestas eres un cachondo las tasas son ridiculas no puedes tomar validad una encuesta sobre los toros usando un sector de edad de 9 a 23 años.

Pero en fin me da algo de que tu eres uno de esos que les besaria el culo alos de terra ilure.

Pero sabes el cachondeo mas grande señor progre ? el Toreo me la suda y mucho.

Veras a mi me gusta el futbol americano y el europeo .

Sin embargo estoi asta los cojones de minorias tocado los huevos a otras por su supuesto derecho moral .

Bueno señor progre ya que entras insultando y no debatiendo te queda eso .

Te lo meteria en catalan pero veras me gusta ser politicamente correcto con los progres fascistoides que dictan como deben pensar toda la gente .

Por que sois los peores si alguien no piensa como vosotros ala es un animal un desalmado....

Pero claro los fachas y los sociatas sois caras de una misma moneda la de la intolerancia .

que sera lo proximo prohibir la semana santa por ser una fiesta religiosa que os ofende ?.

o instauramos pelotones de fusilmiento apra los disidentes junto alos campos de concentracion de los fumadores.

Claro como ZP le dejan fumar en la moncloa

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Yo soi apolitico total llevo votando en blanco 16 años .
Soi cinico total y lo peor de todo yo no insulto si no me insultan lo que tu si haces .

Soi un fundamentalista ? joder no si ahora me llsamaras bin laden .

No soi una persona cabreada con imbeciles como tu que insultan a cualquier otro que no piensan como tu por que segun tu ellos no son mas que escoria .

La verdadera escoria es la que judga las ideas de los demas basandose solo en que no le gustan .

Y se nota que no lees un periodico decente que publique las fotos de la peña de la que expulsan de sus trabajos por no saber catalan

pfft .

Donde ay dudas ay libertad cretino

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Seras cobarde por eso primero escribes en ingles y luego nos insultas a ella y a mi en español.

Si señor patetico y cobarde .

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] zhea 18 years ago

i'd like to apologise for the acheron's behavior... the political situation in spain nowadays is like the argue we can read upwords. and it comes whether bullfights, money or laguage. i'm so embarassed.

anyway, i agree al053200 -is it your name?

and, finally, all this proves what i said days ago: bullfightin is more than a cruel sport, is a way of understanding tradition an an old Spain we don't want anymore.

reply

[–] epoque 18 years ago

Acheron, I think you are absolutely right in yoour thougts.
As a Valencian, we can´t stand for any longer all the Catalan Imperialism...that´s real fascism¡¡¡.

I´don´t like bullfighting specially, but I RESPECT the tradition and all the people that live and enjoy the historical spectacle. And, of course, I refuse all those opinions that want to censore bullfighting only for a nationalism point of view.

"bullfightin is more than a cruel sport, is a way of understanding tradition an an old Spain we don't want anymore". (zhea)

Zhea, I´m afraid with your strange comments that you agree with all the political things (like the "Great Ape project") the actual Spanish government is doing...ok, that´s good; we have to forbid everything that we dislike. That´s democracy and your attitude is a clear sign of that(tremendously ironic).

By the way, I think the movie will be good¡¡.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

All very beautifull like peta memebrs than would expend money to save a single animal but wouldnt give a rat ass of what is goinga round the world.

Peta people is very cool like animal rigth defenders BUT WHERE ARE YOU when you when it goes to the humans than cannot enjoy rigths ?.

your patetic stand using budah and others authors is very funny but where are such authors when people dieofstarvation on many countrys or people than figth every day .

People want give rigths to animals where are people than never enjoyed even the rigths than you want give to the animals.

You live on a wonderfull world where iits is cool to think than the animals deserve respect and rigths but i dont see you wasting 2 hours of your time on barcelona or any city of spain helping homeles or people than have to beg on any corner .

the last year PETA on his campaing agaisnt bullfigthing expended 67 $ millons .

with such numbers you could have saved 35.000 childrens on africa or help the more than 150.000 people than are dying sudan because they dont have water .

But stranger things you can see some people would rather save a animal life than a human one .

Hypocresy is the scourge of the man kind .

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

You wana hear something funny ?.

some years ago there was a village than had the tradition to drop a goat from the top of a tower.

The PC brigade of course make his personal crusade agaisnt it calling it a barbaric tradition blablas.

The major of the village laughing his ass of told them than the original tradition begins on the war of the indepdence agaisnt the Francve of Napoleon.

Seems some Frenchs burned and pillaged and rape the village while the mans where out when they return captured around 35 French soldiers and one sargeant.

With total bloodthirsty one by one where droped from the tower .

when the war end the village begins to sue goats .

As the major said But i know may not be political correct drop goats from the tower but what will happens if we begin to drop Frenchs ,p

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

well me point with your words become valid u would rather figth for the rigths of a animal than for the humans .

dont need said so much .

You said you are valencian . well why u dont care more about the 3250 people than are homeles there .

of course they are not bull they dont deserve any rogth or dignity .

after all they are just homeles and figth for his cause isnt smart as is figthing agaisnt the bullfigthing .

lets say than you ban the whole bullfigthing . it means than no one would farm the bull since it took so much long it means than the bullfigthing will dissapear with it the ruedos and all the stuff than give works for thousands of people.

But who cares about those people than work on bullfigthing ?

Why dont ban internet since it broke the rigths of people because on internet you can see all the opinions etc.

there is a word for you Fascist

reply

[–] zhea 18 years ago

beloved epoque and gfnacho: I'll repite the same 'till it won't be true:

bullfight is the Spain we want anymore. ANYMORE. for it represents a deep and terrible spanish nacionalism that hurts to feel, that provoqued to spanish so many pain for forty years, that still today makes the current life full of indignity and sarcasm -we can read your posts just to see how it works.

i realy hope you both one day will see how wrong you are. how far from reallity. i really wish to take life by the balls and say "ok, that's true, that is a Spain that must be changed", so we can all toghether built a better Spain, where any nacionalism ought to be off. because our beautifull and heterogeneous country deserves it. i don't try to tell you what you HAVE to do, i tell you what i WISH you to do so things may be some day much better.

are you both telling me that our country deserves a better futere? whether you trust me or not, it is up to you to get there. let's stop fighting against each other! let's fight for a good and real spain, not just holding the image of "España, toros y panderetas". we are much more!

reply

[–] aricdb 18 years ago

Im spanish too. I hate bullfighting and I hate the way how the bull is KILLED, but of course is a very old tradition in the country. I dont understand why it is call "la fiesta nacional" (the national party), if it is only followed by old people but very little % of the youg people. I hope it will dissapear in the future!

reply

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

mostly because spanish young people is so much busy drinking on the botellon and living with parents till the 40s .

reply

[–] gfnacho 18 years ago

I don't like bullfighting as well...

But stop saying "this isn't the spain we don't want" (what are you an Iñaki Gabilondo fan? :P), if you don't want that Spain it's ok, but don't use these type of expressions, please.

Just go outside a bullfight, and you will see that the "plaza" is full, almost in any city in Spain (an actually i live next to "Las Ventas", and i can say that 50% or more of the people there isn't as old as you all think...)

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

Yes yes but last time i chek the bullfigthing peple is very quite but the other opposed to it is who dont respect other opinions .

if people dont like the bullfigthing then its k but let those than do it enjoy his fun no ?.

Bullfigthing is the oldest tradition than spain and portugal have since the oldest bullfigthing know about 1200 BC when on the iliad is talk about the iberian horses and bulls.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

And why not ban the footbal where some people kick a ball and they won obscene amounts of money ? or the rugby because it is violent ? the wrestling ? the boxing martial arts ?.

And you again insult the bullfigthing loversw who are you who gives you supoerior morality over anyone ?.

You disdain other mans rigths on name of animals so if you cannot respect the other mans rigths how you want to figth for the animals.

The day than humans stop being smart asses judging others mans because are different on his vests costumes religion colour and traditions then i will worry for a animal .

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

o yes i will did ,

like the day than see on the new like a bunch of sweden pro peta entered on a bull farms to show us how pacific where the iberian bulls Lol.

But well it is another history .

But i still wonder what would be thinking mister Borg njroson when the bull slice one of his horns on his guts .

I dont care really about bullfigthing.

What i care is about the people than begins to tell us what to do hnow to do than want to direct our lives .

for put you a example.

Hitler was a animal defender rigths and vegetarian . while goering was a hunt lover .

Hitler executed 3500 people on germany just for hunt eagles razorbacks etc .

You will be happpy with some like him on charge to Erase those patethtic scum than like bullfigthing ehm ?.

reply

[–] gfnacho 18 years ago

/quote
Hi there gfnacho. Sorry to bother.

Probably you’re brainwashed by the highly publicized idea that the bullfight is tradition.- and probably a high percentage of the people attending those bullfights as well - But I don’t think, by my own experience as a spaniard, that fighting and killing bulls with swords and harpoons is a customary habit practiced in Spain as a matter of routine to entertain ourselves (at least for the present , I don’t know if after this movie there will be an increase in such practices and they’ll become “trendier”). And I don’t feel that spending a romantic afternoon at the bullfights is one of Spain’s favourite pastimes at the moment. I’d rather find that some people have great interest in that their putrefying customs and projects can be safeguarded in some way … If you want that Spain, it’s perfect for you, but not for other people, so respect other’s opinions.
/quote

I respect other's opinion, i don't like bullfights, but also i don't see as bad as some people like to put it, what i said is that please don't use the term "we don't like that spain..." use "i don't like that spain" :P...

Of course going to a bullfight isn't one of Spain favourite pastime at the moment... everyone knows is sitting in front of TV to see the life and miseries of the "famous people" (and nearly half of then are "toreros" or family, so we need them :P)

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] acheron33 18 years ago

the worlds largenst show the feria of san isidro beginned today on madrid .

Jujst today 360.000 tickets solds .

Yes very minority went to see it .

lets see tomorrow.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ari241 18 years ago

Hi, Bullfighting is one of the few things that make me ashamed of my country. Everytime I dicuss the subject with someone who says ´it is traditional, therefore it shouldn´t be outlawed´ I get mad. It is CRUELTY...I can´t find the connection between cruelty and tradition.
In the old days in Spain hungry men who had nothing to eat or work for risked their lifes and become bullfighters. That´s how it begun. O.k, fine, those were, as i say, the old days. Now it is the 21st century!
Anyway, I don´t think I will watch this movie but it is very funny that Brooklyn borned Adrien Brody is gonna be playing Manolete...

reply

[–] lazygafiltafish 18 years ago

i know no one will read this but as an animal rights activist, i think it is cruel like ALL blood sports. is it a tradition? yes of course i am not saying it isnt. its a cruel tradition though. spain has a lot of wonderful other traditions that dont harm living things for sport and entertainment so i dont see why they have to go on with this one. barcelona got rid of it i think 2 years ago which i think is wonderful. however, spain isnt the only country that allows bullfighting. mexico has it, and parts of southern france have it as well. there is some variations of bullfighting though where the bull doesnt get killed in the pit being stabbed. i think in portugal and maybe in other places, the bull is tormented and then after words "humanely" (yeah right) gets casterated and then shot. ive seen pictures of everything with animals being tortured and stuff and i dont see how one (whether you care about animals or not), can walk away from seeing it not affected or thinking how disgusting it is.

reply

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] fanaticita 18 years ago

Not too long ago I watched the film The Assassination of Trotsky which had a bullfight scene that would turn the stomach of any staunch defender of bullfighting. Not a bad film otherwise. A Richard Burton film which is virtually unknown, in which he looks remarkably like Trotsky in his later years. See it if you can.

reply