Ending explained *spoilers* - All the Boys Love Mandy Lane (2013) Discussion

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

I don't think that Mandy was sexually attracted to Chloe, i think that the scene in question has been overanalysed.

Overall though this topic has the most intelligent points i've read about the ending and i agree with most of them. However i thought that it was a possibility that Mandy may have gone through with the suicide until she met Garth.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lgpkjk 16 years ago

I agree with your interpretation. That was completely obvious to me when they are talking and he says 'We're both supposed to die' in which she replies 'Well one of us will. Help! Garth!'. She would have assumed Garth would be able to deliver a one hit kill being a Marine and all, trained to aim for a kill shot. But his previous wound restrained him from delivering. And then the chase was on.

I do believe that Mandy intended to make Chloe (was that her name) believe she was attracted to her. Im not sure why. Maybe to make her think that was why she rejected all the boys advances. I mean, the stroking of her hair even when she no longer needed comforting and the whole 'Your shaking' thing. Thats why Chloe let her finger linger in Mandy's mouth after she gave her the pill. She thought Mandy was attracted to her.

Awesome movie though. The cinematography was amazing. Reminded me of a dream sequence throughout.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mistertwisterpictures-1 16 years ago

The ending has had me thinking for hours. This is how you do an ending. Have the viewer thinking about it long after you watch the film.

Some of the stuff makes sense to me, some doensn't.

The motives make sense, but suicide pact doesn't. What was the point of it? Afraid that they would be caught and rott in prison? Actually thinking about it now makes a little sense but why do it still?

Mandy letting Garth live makes perfect sense. He was the only decent male she knows and she needs him to back up her story.

My feeling is she and Emmet planned this long before the movie even began, like over the summer. The plan began as soon as they came back to school. Evidence in Emmet's line to her right in the opening "Good to go?". They began their "killing spree" right at the pool party but carefully planned it out. If Mandy was to truly befriend the group of friends, she could'nt certainly hang out with Emmet as the friends blammed him for the death of Dylan. She ignored him and waited until the right moment-the trip to the ranch. That's when the plan truly came into effect. They were far out of town and had plenty of space to work with. Mandy sat aside while Emmet did all the dirty work. Mandy screwed with Chloe's head so she would run to Mandy for protection/comfort in the finale.

Now the suicide pact, was Mandy willing to go through with it? Emmet was because he would do anything for Mandy. But what about Mandy about herself? I truthfully think she was, originally. She was willing to go through with it and take the pills and end her life with happiness. But what doesn't make clear sense (maybe a re-watch?) is why would Emmet want to go with a gun shot to the heart? Anyways Mandy reaches in, whispers something to him and kisses him. I don't think the whispers can be understood but shes says something right after that could not understand. If somone could answer that I would be grateful. Now why does she kiss him? Was it to confirm that he was no better than all the other guys or just some excuse to chicken out on the pact? I think it's to prove he was really just in it for her and not for their "cause" to get rid of the depraved teens. The oversexed party goers who most likely treated her and Emmet like *beep* pre-junior year.

And that asks the question of who was Mandy Lane pre-junior year? Some fugly little nerd or just some average teen no one really remembered..until now. My guess is due to Dylan's comment of *beep* hot over the summer" that it was a big approvement. Also calling Emmet a "Fag" kinda shows some history between the depraved youth and Mandy Lane and Emmet.

We're never shown any of this. Anything before the junior year is never shown what-so-ever. So us horror fans have to put it together ourselves. We never see Mandy Lane and Emmet setting up their "plan" because there is no big flashback at the end when the twist is revealed. We are forced to (GASP!) pay attention instead and keep a look out.

The looks on the faces of Mandy Lane and Emmit during Dylan's fall can be expressing many things. Here's what I think what was being said in their heads-

Mandy Lane: He actually did it
Emmet: One down..
Mandy Lane: (looks up at Emmet) Good job, let's get out of here (I say this because it looks like Mandy is getting up)

Emmet is still standing on the roof. You can say that it's because he can't believe what just happened or to me it's because he is admiring the work he just did and can't believe this dumbass just jumped off the roof.

I'm getting tired so before I leave I want to leave some questions that you guys can possibly answer..

What do you think is the reason behind the pact?
What does Mandy say after she kisses Emmet?
What do you think was being said in Mandy and Emmet's minds during Dylan's fall?

Anything else to add?

reply

[–] lgpkjk 16 years ago

The first thing she whispers to him is inaudible. Then after she kisses him she says "That’s what you want isn’t it? That’s why you did all this" to which he replies "I did this for you". Then she drops the pills out of her hand while saying "You should never do anything for me". But she seems sad while saying it. It seemed like she was really disappointed.
So, I just watched it again and I believe even more so that she planned on following through. When she asks him if he is scared and he says "No, are you?" She looks really deep in thought when she says "No" back.
Maybe the gun shot to the heart was supposed to be Mandy protecting herself so she didn’t seem involved (but then again they planned on having copycat killers. Copycat act of jealous rage killers? Or copycat revenge on the bully killers? That’s something Im not sure of). Then the suicide via pills because everyone 'supposedly' near and dear to her is dead. Her parents and her closest friends.
What I really believe though is that the writers didn’t even have the answers to these questions. They deliberately left it open ended so the debate would go on indefinitely and would show up in word of mouth ticket sales. There is no definitive reason for why they did it. Each of the writers probably had different opinions as to the motive of Mandy and Emmett, each contributing tidbits to the movie to make their interpretation more valid. Which is why people like us end up on a message board analysing each and every detail whilst knowing that we will never really know the motivation behind them, if Mandy was a lesbian, or if they planned it from the very beginning which (Mandy's look when Emmett convinces that guy to face plant in the concrete) seems more probable to my interpretation.
Anyways, It’s interesting to hear others opinions on the movie. They open my mind to things I might have missed in what retrospectively, is turning into a better and better movie.
Edit:
Strike that. I really do believe they planned it from the start now. When Emmett is racing to catch up with her, at the very end of the track she says "C'mon Emmett. Hurry up". When he finally gets to her he shows her the notebook and says "I finished it" then Mandy looks around and says "Not now Emmett".
She was pushing him on the track to prepare for the strenuous activity planned for the weekend. Now, we cant be sure if they planned it from the very beginning of the movie, but it looks more likely. The attention she shows that guy on the roof looked as if she was daring him to impress her. Then she looked at Emmett with a hint of 'well done' in her eyes.
I could watch this movie over and over again. At least until I find another movie that piques my interest which should be about... a week.

reply

[–] mistertwisterpictures-1 16 years ago

*beep* dude, I didn't notice any of that in the track scene. Re-watch!

Makes alot of sense, though. Considering all the work Emmet had to do throughout the film.

But she also didn't about the trip to the ranch yet..or did she. Or was she doing this in case something came up and Emmet would already be prepared.

I do seriously believe that both Mandy and Emmet came up with this plan even before the movie started. Most likely during the summer before Junior year. Mandy was most likely overweight and not very attractive. I say this because it seems she enjoys running and keeping in shape.

I don't think we'll ever get any solid answers until the DVD comes out and the director/writer gives them to us.

reply

[–] FeelGoodHit-OfTheSummer 16 years ago

I think ts clear they definatly started the plan before he convinced the drunk guy to jump. I think the plan was to have Mandy and Emmet pretend to break up so she could join the 'cool kids' and get away with them, whilst Emmet secretly kills them all at the ranch.

"Flatly My Dear, I Don't Riverdance"

reply

[–] mistertwisterpictures-1 16 years ago

Exactly DrFeelGood, their friendship had to end in order for her to sneak her way into the group of friends. If she continued to be friends with Emmet, they wouldn't want anything to do with her.

This movie is becoming one of my favorites of the year.

reply

[–] zipperha 16 years ago

I agree with everything everyone said,

Plus, I think Mandy was going to go through with the suicide pact until she realized Emmet was doing it for the wrong reasons.

Let me explain...

The whole movie's focus, even though the plot/characterization seem minimal, is about how men objectify girls and will do dumb, gross things to impress them or try and sleep with them, and how women degrade themselves and other women to feel better about themselves. Throughout the movie, Mandy never gives in to these stereotypes, doesn't allow anyone to kiss her, and is modest about her body (at the party, and later at the lake). I totally agree with the theory that before Junior year, she was bullied and not very attractive, and that she made a transformation that made people pay attention to her.

She and Emmet formed a pact to rid the school of the people who bullied and tortured them at school by using Mandy as the secret weapon, or bait...it really shouldve been called "Everyone Loves Mandy Lane", because even Chloe is drawn to Mandy, envious of Mandy's looks

Its kinda like a twisted "Mean Girls", where Cady joins the cool group so that she can sabotage them. I think just like Cady, Mandy almost falls prey to the superficialities of the cool group. I think the moments with Chloe are Mandy's weakness, forgetting what her cause is. I think thats why she personally kills Chloe at the end, instead of leaving it to Emmet, to show that she means business. And she doesnt really kill her with spite...its almost a mercy killing.

So....I think the reason she decides not to follow through with her pact with Emmet is because at the end, she can tell that he did everything for her, especially after he doesnt trust her not to die with him - their suicide means more to him than it should. Her kiss is like a kiss of death, knowing he killed for her, instead of their cause, which is exactly the sort of thing they are against. Thats the reason Dylan died, because he wanted to impress Mandy. Mandy wanted herself and Emmet to die for their cause, not because Emmet loved Mandy. Thats why she tells him "dont do anything for me" when she drops the pills. He failed her.

By fighting Emmet, and ultimately killing him, and sparing Garth in the end, Mandy gets everything: the plan to kill off the evil teens was successful, and Emmet's journal will be found, which will fulfill their purpose. Also, Mandy has found a man, Garth, who has no superficialities, and knows that killing is sometimes necessary (the cattle story).

Plus its safe to say shes psychotic, so some/most of her decisions are probably just because shes a murderous, manipulative psycho

reply

[–] liquid_stone14 16 years ago

Kudos, zipperha

After reading many, many interpretations of the film's ambiguous but shocking ending, I can say that everything you wrote about it in your last post will certainly be as accurate and pitch-perfect as an explanation of it can be.

I urge all of you who didn't understand the conclusion to read the post above.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Dyslexic Officially May Since 1994!

http://www.rottentomatoes.com

reply

[–] whysrumgone21 16 years ago

Excellent explanation Zipperha. What I feel everyone is missing here is that it is nearly impossible for good looking women to have true friends. In my life I have seen over and over again women that just want to be seen as people and not sexual objects. These people don't treat Mandy as a person. She is not a friend to them, only a thing to be desired. This is why the "lesbian scene" is important. It shows that any act of kindness or friendship on Mandys part is only seen as an opening to make a move. I feel that Mandy has every intention of following through with the suicide pact until her only real friend Emmet betrays her by showing that he is exactly like all of the others.

reply

[–] rasmuskusk 16 years ago

first off i dont think she ever intended to kill herself. she askes Emmet if he will signe the book (sort of as a joke, but still), and says she never read the book. if it was a real suecide packed, that would be important to her, right ? it's there legacy. there's also the sick cow story from Garth, i think that's important! the herd is sick and has to be put down, ring a bell ? i haven't thought this completely through yet, but there's more in there.

reply

[–] lets-make-a-love-story 16 years ago

They are some really good thoughts...
They've lead me onto thinking about Mandy's character.

Although from the beginning Mandy portrayed modesty, toward the end I felt that she had become superficial (just like the people she was killing off). Her relationship with Emmet may have started off as a romantic thing, both fueled by different types of passion. But the flare had faded for Mandy, and (following her transformation over summer) she believed she could do better than him. Emmet's passion was for Mandy, Mandy's was to be notorious. She was sick of being in the background.

She had devised a plan with Emmet, telling him that they would rid the world of the bullies and then commit suicide together. Meanwhile, the 'real plan' was to get Emmet to do all the dirty work. Then she would take the glory by killing him and making a name for herself as the massacre surviver. I think that the more Emmet killed for her, she more arrogant she got. Because she realized that she could make people fall at her feet, people who would actually murder for her...

Oh, its all crazyness!

I dont know, that just what I got from the film. *looks gormless*

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] lgpkjk 16 years ago

Don't worry. Neither did I until the second viewing. Its said very quietly and you view the scene from a distance. I honestly think its not meant to be noticed until the second time round. I was shocked. I had to rewind it like 3 times to be sure. And I am. She says "Come on Emmett" at about 10:40. And "Hurry up" straight after that.
The joys of repeat viewings.
She did know about the trip because Red says to the stoners while she is running on the track "Ive invited her to my ranch this weekend" then something like am I the *beep* Yes I am. Finished with "But will she come?"

Could you guys imagine this happening in real life? I highly doubt it. I think anyone who went from nobody to Goddess would probably milk it for all its worth. All of the people seen as nobodies at my high school would have jumped at the chance to be popular at that point in time. No matter what they say or believe in retrospect. I kind of admire Mandy's strength to stick to her guns and go through with it rather than turning into the typical Prom Queen. Not that we have proms here in Australia.
.

reply

[–] mistertwisterpictures-1 16 years ago

Yeah I rewatched the scene and heard it, somewhat. It's there though. Good ears guys/gals!

It all depends on badly Mandy Lane was treated by those people. I gurantee they used to treat her like total crap. We never see this but we can guess.

reply

[–] waspfan33 10 years ago

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK...

sorry lol got the dvd and even the directors commentary doesnt answer everything.

spectre can

suck it.

reply

[–] andell 11 years ago

"Mandy letting Garth live makes perfect sense. He was the only decent male she knows and she needs him to back up her story."

Or Mandy was a psychopath, and used both her appeal, and those around her to further her own objectives, regardless if they were "decent males" or not.

After all it's clear that she's in on this mass execution from the get go...and she's more than happy to let Emmet do all the heavy lifting. His devotion to her, her exploitation of him (just based on your interpretation of the film), and then her willingness to go back on the plan and chart a new path for herself, knowing that it would be impossible for him to do likewise...is a good indication that she was the devious psychopath in this film.

Emmet did most of the killing, but his desire to end his life in the end suggested that he wasn't the brains of the operation...he was the brawn. He wasn't a psychopath...he was her drone. That's why, in spite of how brutal many of the killings were, I don't consider Emmet as evil as Mandy.

Mandy doesn't let Garth survive because he's "the only decent male she knows"...for I don't believe the murders were ever about her outrage at how she, as a woman, has been treated.

I believe she got off on how she could manipulate all the boys into doing what she wanted them to do, and that included manipulating Emmet into doing what he did for her.

reply

[–] firstwinsgop 11 years ago

Mandy doesn't let Garth survive because he's "the only decent male she knows"...for I don't believe the murders were ever about her outrage at how she, as a woman, has been treated.

See my earlier post. She does in fact let Garth live because he's "the only decent male" she knows. But the key to that is understanding that Mandy has a very unique take on "decent". Garth won her over because like her, he is a killer and like her demonstrates a complete control over his emotions. Garth was just as attracted to Mandy as all the other boys, and Mandy new it, but despite his lust, Garth never once acted inappropriately towards her- even when she made the first move during the bet (and this is significant because contrived as it was, this was probably first time Mandy had ever hit on a guy). She saw in Garth, perhaps for the first time in her life, someone she viewed as an equal. Someone worthy of her respect. And that's the reason she didn't kill him.

reply

[–] jz1276 10 years ago

This was my understanding of the ending. She had intentions to go through with the suicide up until 1-she realized Garth was not a douche like the other guys and started having a thing for him and 2-she realized Emmet was in love with her and went along with all the killings because of that. She thought he was like her and when she found out he was just trying to impress her like the rest she killed him.

reply

[–] energis 16 years ago

Perhaps a minimalistic set up is a better way of putting it, I agree that the characterization was very well developed. I didn't notice the lesbian implication in my viewing and so am also inclined to think it has been overanalysed. I could be wrong, I'd need repeated viewings.

"i thought that it was a possibility that Mandy may have gone through with the suicide until she met Garth."
I hadn't considered this as in my mind it goes against slasher conventions of the killer wanting survival. Parts of the film such as I mention here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0490076/board/thread/98406483 make me think she is intended to be a conventional killer in terms of the genre. This isn't a very strong argument and the scenes with Mandy and Garth alone did seem poignant. However,I didn't see enough evidence to make me think she had planned to go through with it.

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Brookic0 16 years ago

I definatley noticed the lesbian vibe going on with Chloe and Mandy in the bathroom scene. At first I wondered if I was the only one that was thinking this while watching the movie. However, when I came to this board I see that I wasn't the only one who thought something was up with the scene. If a lot of people thought there was a lesbian vibe while watching the scene then I don't see how it is being over analyzed. It means that people noticed it. Here is my take on it. I felt like Chloe was coming on to Mandy more than Mandy was to Chloe, however I didn't see Mandy backing off and if they hadn't of got interupted what would of happened? There was the whole sexual tension and then Chloe sticking her finger in Mandy's mouth, she didn't have to do that to give her the pill. Maybe, the movie's name should of been Everybody loves Mandy Lane. The argument could be made that Mandy didn't really back off when the black guy wanted to hold her hand and kiss her when they were walking either. So, maybe she was just seeing who would make a pass at her and then make sure they were killed after they did? I don't know! Or, the whole lesbian scene could of been Mandy realizing that Chloe was just a pathetic insecure girl and all the time maybe, Mandy and Emmette had thought she was just superficial and there was no depth to her. Mandy may of realized that there was more to Chloe than met the eye? There are so many questions that were not answered in this movie. Like why did they kill everyone? Was it because the popular kids used to be mean to them until Mandy turned into a knockout? Was it because of how all the kids treated Emmette after he conviced the guy to jump off the roof? I don't buy that because why would Mandy care how they treated Emmette? I mean she evidently didn't care too much for him or she wouldn't of killed him too. Or was it because they were just 2 psycho's, Emmette doing anything Mandy asked and Mandy just being a psycho? Did Mandy's parents death's affect her more than they showed? I don't know but there is a lot of theory's....Another question, Why did Mandy let Garth live? Was it because he was her alibi? or was it because he was the only one that didn't objectify her? Was it because he was more mature than the highschool kids? Or was it because she really did have a crush on him? because honestley I felt that she really did like Garth and he kept pushing her away which made her like him more, because no one had probably ever turned her down and that made her like him, however we don't really know because it wasn't explained. I liked the movie, but I didn't like all the unanswered questions. I didn't like that the characters had no back story, Especially Mandy. All we knew about her was that her parents died, her aunt raised her and she had a cousin who was older than her. She hung out with a nerdy guy that obsessed over her, and she had turned into a raving beauty over the summer. All the guys wanted to get her and all the girls wanted to be her. Although, it kind of looked as if atleast one of the girls wanted to get with her too. Besides, that there is no backstory as to what made her want to kill everyone, even her so called best friend. If she was just some crazy person then why let Garth live? I could sit here and try to analyze this movie to death and still have no better conclusions. If there is a sequel to this, I hope than answer some questions that were left unanswered in this movie. I know a lot of people think that once you start giving a killer a backstory it makes them less creepy, but I don't think so, I want to know what caused the killer to be a killer, that way I can get inside the killer's head a little more. Although, I do understand what some have said, that if the motive was to get even with those that had done her and Emmette wrong then her job was done and there shouldn't be a sequel. However, I just don't buy that explanation... Usually once someone starts killing they keep on killing, I doubt that Mandy never kills again and her and Garth live happily ever after or that she goes and introduces Garth to her cousin Jen. Mandy seemed to want Garth for herself anyway, she wouldn't just give him to her cousin. Okay now I'm babbling so I will stop.

reply

[–] newport_beach_gal 16 years ago

My point wasn't that the moment between Mandy and Chloe didn't exist but that it wasn't relevant to Mandy's motives. Therefore i think the moment is being overanalysed because i don't think it was significant to the plot

reply

[–] HackedOff 16 years ago

What made is great for me was that I was really excited to see this film all week leading up to it, and on the day I was going to see it a girl at work was flicking through a newspaper and found an ad for it, which got me going on about it again. She asked me what it was about and I explained the premise of all the boys wanting to get in her pants and someone starts killing off the competition. Being a lesbian herself, this girl jokes "Ah, maybe the twist is that she's actually gay so they never had a chance in the first place!", and then the bathroom scene with Chloe was just made even better lol.

However, I'm not sure how to interpret it because I'm inclined to take the *Garth gave her a reason to live* road, so I don't think she was all that into Chloe.

Actually, I may interpret it as Mandy almost getting off on Chloe's vulnerability. At that moment, Mandy knew she had Chloe wrapped. Chloe genuinely trusted her and revealed her insecurity; she was at Mandy's mercy which is just what Mandy needed from her to pull a stunt like the one she pulls at the end (when she urges Chloe to run into her open arms...).
So maybe Chloe sucking her finger just gave Mandy validation of her power (and maybe that validation turned her on slightly lol)

Veronica why are you pulling my dick?

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] crystalprincess 16 years ago

brooke, i liked reading what you had to say. however, being a grammar nut that I am...it's "wouldn't HAVE" not "wouldn't of." lol, sorry, I just had to get that out of my system. other than that, i like your train of thought. =)

"Stupid sexy Flanders"

reply

[–] herts_babeuk 16 years ago

I watched the film last night and did have a few questions which apart from one has been answered by reading everyone's opinons on the film

i do believe that mandy and emmet were nerds etc before the summer and that the gang had bullied them etc hence they built up a hatred for them which would have provoked the plan.

I also believe that mandy did have a hatred for men as from her experience, with no father figure to look up to, seemed to be after only one thing, and although emmet and mandy were 'best friends' it probably didnt incur to mandy that emmet was in love with her and that his way of 'worming himself in her good books' by doing all the killings was a way of trying to get her to love him so they could be together.

the suicide pact seemed a little romantic to me at first, a little romeo and juliet. I do think mandy was going to go through with it but once she realised that emmet did it for her only, not the reason for the plan, and that she met garth, who seemed to be different to all the other men she met, i think her eyes were opened and she realised that there was better out there and she could do better.

My questions are:

1 - emmet and mandy were chatting a long time after killing chole, and it was a whilst before emmet turned the guy onto mandy, it seemed that he had only turned his gun onto her for a very short moment before she called out to garth to save her - surely garth whilst stuggling to get as close as he did to emmet to shoot him, would have seen them chatting?

2 - the blood on the track at the beginning of the film, when mandy was out jogging - who's was this? there was something in the blood (i couldnt see what) - what was that?

3 - would the journal by emmet only have details of his love for her? what was the point of it, if both were going to be dead - surely it would mention their plot planned together, as a reason for the death?

4 - why was mandy considering killing garth just before she decided to spare him?

5 - what annoyed me was when chole and red were running, after seeing the bodies, and stopped for a kiss just before the car - why didnt they just get in the car and kiss aftewards?! that bit was annoying!

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cstu11 16 years ago

There isn't that much evidence either way really. You can interpret it both ways. For me, I think she did mean to go through with it initially. When she meets Garth she realises not all men are a-holes, indeed there are some good human beings out there. Consequently she realises that Emmett is hardly the 'sensitive best friend' type, merely he's just as obsessed with her as the others were.

I'd love to know if there was an alternate ending in which she did go through with it. That itself would have made a very poignant statement, with disturbingly realistic implications in the post-columbine era.

Whatever your view, I don't think the answer is as important as the question. What's great is that the film proves you can do a slasher movie that raises issues normally reserved for the arthouse.

===================

Great post. Someone posted earlier that in his school a girl would have jumped at the chance to go from "nobody" to "goddess". That's probably true for a lot of people, but a smart person can see right through the shallowness of popularity.

Mandy realized that the only reason any guy even wanted to talk to her was because of sex. You see in the movie that the guys who hit on her and fail immediately move on to the next girl without even a second thought. The only difference between Emmett and the rest of the guys is that he was obsessed with her but he also didn't care about her for pure reasons.

I do think that Garth changed her view on men. When she was dared to invite Garth in he turned it down and showed no interest in her, something she was no used to. The fact that he never tried anything with her is why she decides to not kill herself and not kill him.

reply

[–] oc12311 16 years ago

I agree with everything you said except about Emmett being apart of Mandy's larger plan. I think she was planning on going through with the suicide right up until it was about to happen and then she changed her mind. When she saw Garth walking up in the distance, she saw that as her chance to turn things onto Emmett.

reply

[–] max-457 16 years ago

Personally I think YES she wanted to go along with the plan, until Emmet said he did it for her. I believe she was convinced up until that point that he was purely doing this because he actually felt the same way that Mandy did. Garth on the other hand was the only guy that didn't actually try to hit on Mandy at all, in fact he asked whether she had an approximately 10 year older sister.

I think that's why Garth was allowed to live over all the others.

reply

[–] alisa_amy 16 years ago

I agree that she had every intention of going through with it until she realised emmett was only doing it because he was obsessed with her like the others. I thought there was an interesting symetry though - how at the beggining emmett convinced that guy to jump by saying they'd go togeather and then backing out, mirroring the ending.

Don't threaten me with a dead fish.

reply

[–] victoria4504 16 years ago

I think everyone who posted to this thread just put more thought into this "run of the mill" slasher movie that the writer and director!

You guys go!

Won't you please talk to me while I'm listening? Nancy Griffith

reply

[–] groovymike_16 16 years ago

I wish it would have ended with them committing suicide. It would have been psychotically touching. But I didn't mind the actual ending either.

http://s8.invisionfree.com/The_MovieTalk_Boards/index.php

reply

[–] LesLegionsNoires 16 years ago

There wasn't much to directly imply this, and the other interpretations you guys have come up with all make perfect sense, but there was one other possibility that I saw (though I do lean toward the earlier consensus).

If Emmet began as just one of the many boys who was infatuated with Mandy, then after he convinced the guy at the party to jump from the roof Mandy may decided that she could manipulate him even more so than others. Much of the crowd at that party ended up in the circle of friends who went to the cabin, and Emmet would have invariably been a suspect because of the way the others viewed him in terms of talking one man into suicide and constantly pursuing Mandy, so for Emmet any type of murder spree would have logically ended with committing suicide to avoid being caught. He was disliked in school and did not have anything else to lose, so all Mandy would have had to do to convince him to wipe out the partygoers was agree to go down with him in the end to satisfy his obsession with her. In the end, she was counting on Emmet going out with pills as well, and in that scenario she simply could have faked swallowing hers and waited, but his last minute decision to be shot took her off guard. She also seemed to enjoy the fact that she had outsmarted him and used him when she called out to Garth, and if I remember correctly she didn't look afraid when she called for help, but rather quite calm. Emmet wasn't really all that different than the others to begin with, he loved to show off for her in different ways, and he was clearly as corrupt as any of the others.

Valhalla is not for the sheep.

reply

[–] illu2 16 years ago

All very interesting theories. Hopefully the DVD will supply answers.
For me though, I thought the killing of Chloe by Mandy was a little out of character. I saw her more as a manipulator and less of a killer. Or maybe only a killer when she is threatened like when she tried to get out of the suicide pact.

I feel like the writers should have written a slightly better ending, and also not revealed the killer so early on, and then this film really would have been something special. But for me, I think it just missed out.

But it is filmed beautifully :)

PS What was with the blood on the path to the ranch that mandy lane was running down when she was jogging?

reply

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] feelgoodbaby 16 years ago

I made sense out of everything except for why the hell she wanted everyone dead so badly? It was just high school. You suffer through it and then you're done. Actually, now I get it! Chick was crazy, just like the kids that go to school with guns and shoot everyone. She just did it in a different way. Mystery solved, I hope there's not a real life Mandy Lane out there. And if there is I hope she's far away from me.

reply

[–] reimeir 16 years ago

Well said, feelgoodbaby, I really hope that as well ;)

I thought the almost completly lack of reasoning as to why Mandy wanted them all dead in the first place actually worked as a disadvantage to the whole movie. Some may say it leaves more place for interpretation and is therefore a good thing, but we have no insight at all into her character, which I think is unfortunate.

As for the bathroom scene with Chloe, I definately saw the chemistry, although the scene kinda played out weird. I mean, there was like nothing at all between those two before and suddenly they are almost sweeping you of your feet with the subtext. The way I see it, Mandy was surprised to see that life can suck for anyone. That some It-Girl could feel bad about herself, even becoming anorexic in order to fulfill the stereotype she sod esperately wanted to fit in. The way people perceived Mandy as only a sex symbol, Mandy herself made the same mistake and saw only the obvious, the clichè, in these people. Chloe somewhat shattered this image, and Mandy was propably drawn to that the same way she liked Garth for being more multilayered (i.e. not interested in her) than all the others seemed to be at first. But I do think that she felt more of a platonic emotion towards Garth, whereas there was a sexual tension in this bathroom scene.
I thought it was an interesting tidbit that Mandys hands were shaking. I mean, Chloe was screwed anyways, so why put up an act for her when it`s not necessary? Maybe that`s why she killed her herself. The thing she detested most was desire, She saw guys going all crazy over her whereas they weren`t even noticing her before. They were only interested in her looks, her character was totally irrelevant to them. For her it was all the same, even the love or obsession Emmet may have felt for her (and I do believe his feelings were far from the shallowness of the others), for her it didn`t make a difference. So perhaps she killed Chloe herself because she felt for her in a similiar way as the boys felt for Mandy. And she wanted to kill this feeling along with the girl, because in her opinion there`s nothing weaker or 'more evil'. Personally I don`t think it was the same at all, as it kind of had an innocent touch between the two girls, but I don`t believe Mandy`s that good with distinguishing.

And for the ending, imo she didn`t intend to kill herself in the first place. There are argumenst for both theories, but as a fellow pupil, 'I`m finsihing high school before' would be the last thing that came into my mind after deciding not to kill myself ;)
If her decision was solely based on the fact that his resons for dying weren`t okay with her, then why didn`t she just take the pills, shoot him in the foot and left him alone doing whatever he wanted to do, executing the last part of the plan alone.

reply

[–] josephrh311 16 years ago

I think Mandy was always a "nerd" at heart and just because she got pretty, she wasn't one of the "popular" type girls. She got attention from the jerks at school because of her looks and she was probably just as disgusted as Emmitt was. Basically, they were both "losers" and made this little plan together. I'm also certain that Mandy was disturbed and apparently set the whole thing up because Emmitt kept saying "I did everything you asked!" "I did everything right!" but Mandy wasn't affected at all by this nor the killings. Maybe she was a sociopath.

"I thought you were the man with the big cigar. What are you packin'- a tiparillo?"

reply

[–] sikexl 16 years ago

I don't get it. Why was she a "nerd" before? There is absolutley nothing in this movie that supports the theory that she was "ugly" before, and now she is hot.

reply

[–] anchurney 16 years ago

This movie is very simple, I'm sure everyone has dated someone not totally (as far as killing), just like Mandy Lane. She manipulated everyone, and it is as simple as that. I kinda of saw the killers were going to be emmitt and mandy lane, but I will say the film was well made. Solid horror flick.

reply

[–] naniloa1234 15 years ago

I've read all the posts and greatly enjoyed this discussion!^_^ I think however that some of you have lost a few points,just like i missed some others i realised while reading your posts.Why do you all assume that Mandy Lane was fat or nerdy before the summer when,if i'm not mistaken,it mentions in the beginning that boys wanted her ever since the start of junior high?She was always desired.

I cannot justify her manipulation or killing intentions but if you search for the psychological and subconcious reasons you can see that she really was different and was seeking for something unique in her life,not the average school people. Someone mentioned that she was bitter and distant in the ranch but if you notice how she smiles and talks and expresses herself when she is with her aunt/cousin and Garth you see a totally different person.She did not wish to be exploited and she was not impressed by the jocks in her school.I can relate to that.

That's why i was enamoured with her connection with Garth and all their scenes. The first time she comes across him it is apparent that she is surprised.It's like she wakes up and really notices someone around her. He holds her eyes, she is surprised to find someone that she is attracted to.And while she does not really care about anyone else she finds herself caring about Garth.REMEMBER when Emmett is shooting and stabbing Garth how she screams agonizingly.It is not an act, she doesn't want him to die. I do not think he is her alibi,i believe that she genuinely cares for him. The scene were he is wounded and she hovers over him is so amazing. She is like a little kid enchanted by something she doesn't understand.She is drawn to him,she can't stop herself from wanting to kiss him and she doesn't understand that feeling.

Oh and i also thought it was out of character for Mandy to kill Chloe.I didn't like this twist. It would have been interesting to have more possible killers except Emmett.Like the gas station guy or Garth himself who would have proved a protector instead of a killer.

"Every great love story begins with a punch in the face" Dean/Jo shipper
T~O #411!

reply

[–] Girl_Number_6 15 years ago

Maybe Garth, when he first met her, saw that she was not this lovable young woman, but that there was something more sinister there, and she picked up on that. And that's why there is that brief moment of tension when he says at the end 'You did it..' - maybe we were meant to believe he had seen through her, but at the end it turned out he HADN'T, hence her sly little smile.

I wonder if her parents' deaths are relevant...maybe she killed them too!!

Is tú mo ghrá Ken.

reply

[–] naniloa1234 15 years ago

I don't believe that Garth sensed she was sinister or in any way involved with the murders. From the beginning he seems drawn to her,he favors her in a way and sees her as different from the other teenagers. In the end, his faith in Mandy Lane is even more enforced when he says "You did it" because he thinks that she saved them both.;)

"Every great love story begins with a punch in the face" Dean/Jo shipper
T~O #411!

reply

[–] betomi 15 years ago

I really enjoyed this movie becuase of the ending, I know some people liek to have an ending that just completely ends all thoughts or opinions, but I personally like movies with an "open" ending that leaves the watcher thinking about what really happened.

btw has anyone noticed how much the song from the preview (in anticipation of your suicided-bedroom walls) has to do with the movie?

reply

[–] A_Llama_Drama 15 years ago

not reading them all so hopefully no one has covered what i'm about to say.
So the film - Emmett is a disturbed individual who loves Mandy Lane. She finds him comforting because, unlike the other guys at school he isn't trying to get in her knickers all the time, although we know he's definitely in love with her when he's checking himself out in the mirror, he feels quite sad he can't get with her so will settle for good friend. In a fit of madness, he convinces a dick-head to risk his life, killing said dick-head and giving Mandy an idea. Mandy draws a plan with him to have all her serious admirers killed - but how to go through with it? get a psychopath who may love you involved and promise you'll do what he wants if he does this favour. Psycho Emmett is all up for that, he's gonna get to reek havoc on his bullies and get the girl he loves!
Mandy likes the plan, the guys who force themselves on her are going to get their cumuppence and the girls who reinforce their behaviour and want her to conform just so they can get laid are gonna be out of her life forever. She never had any intention of suicide, it was a draw to Emmett, why would she go through with a suicide knowing that after that weekend she could go on living a life with hopefully, no more arrogant men? Obviously she doesn't tell Emmett this, he has no use to go on living, he would be in jail, and forgotten.
When it comes down to it, she's quite happy for Emmett to get rid of them all, but she wants Chloe so bad, she actually could get to like Chloe, if only Chloe wasn't such a cow. So when Chloe comes running up towards her, she enjoys being the one to get rid of her, to get her hands dirty. But Emmett still madly loves her and she's sick of men loving her, for God's sake it's all men seem to do is love her, why can't she be treated as a human being? why is it always, you're so hot, i love you, take your clothes off? now it's die with me!? to Hell with that! so she shouts for Garth cause he's actually not really all that interested, a man who wants to talk and not get it on oculd be worth knowing. Garth she shouts, this man is attacking me, thinking he'll kill Emmett off the mark, but Emmett is insane and his shot barely hits him so Emmett attacks Garth and as she wants Garth alive, she likes him, she's gonna have to finish it herself. So she's running from the psycho and he's begging her to die with him, god she's tired of that, so she unleashes all her anger and destroys the guy, knowing she's now free to live out high school with no meddling from horny teens
Yipee!!!

My teenage ansgt has a body count

reply

[–] Davejohnson316 15 years ago

First I want to say I did read all the comments here and I respect everyone's opinion and think all are well thought out despite the fact I disagree with a few.

I think her motivation goes far beyond just "they bullied me, now they'll get it." I think that what fuels Emmet but not Mandy. Mandy spends most her time with these kids watching them, studying them. She's a people watcher and dissects them. When Emmet goads Dylan into jumping off the roof for her, her look at Emmet isn't "I can't believe you did it." as in it was part of a larger plan but rather "I can't believe YOU did it." She was just surprised that someone insulted by Dylan previously as well as attacked could convince the big strong jock into jumping off the roof, an act that if it hadn't killed him likely would've have injured him severely. It's at that point she realizes how weak people are and that they can be manipulated into doing anything. I do believe she stopped talking with Emmet for a good portion of that 9 months. It just doesn't jive with me that they would have planned the whole thing either from the start of the school year to that day and him break it by trying to talk with her in public like that. I think they talk often at her house, with her Aunt disapprove and want her to make new friends.

Through her time with the kids on the ranch, the only glimpses we get to see, they show her vulnerability, insecurity, self esteem issues and some general weakness. These are things that when seen would make you sympathize with them like in a sorta similar movie, Mean Creak. But in the case of Mandy, it sorta enforces her thinking of these people. The death of her parents I think is part of it. I imagine she was told she had to be strong and not let it affect her which is why she could be seen as cold or standoffish. I guess turning her into Bruce Wayne/Batman. Part of why I don't think it was just bullying as she doesn't seem the type that it would so affect. She isn't as sensitive as Emmet clearly showed. I didn't see any vulnerability in Mandy when she and Chloe were in a quasi-lesbian scene. She seemed perfectly in control of her emotions and Chloe's comment that her hands were shaking were off. Mandy's hands seemed fine, it was Chloe who was shaking. Also the fact that she mentioned Jake and Bird trying to kiss her was a way to hurt Chloe. Chloe really looked affected by it and was reinforcing her own self esteem issues. The killing of Chloe was less of a mercy killing as another poster suggested. When she finishes, she doesn't look at all like she regrets it. She just stands over it and when she takes the knife, it is again like it's no big deal. The coldest line is when Emmet notices the blood on her and she just replies "Yeah, it just gushes." Chloe's death took no toll on her.

For me, the only times Mandy was vulnerable at her home life being more open with her Aunt and Cousin as well as looking at the pictures of her dead parents on the mirror. There was a considerable more vulnerability in her two conversations with Garth. The first when she really doesn't know what to say and the second when she tells Garth that her parents were dead. It was her way of empathizing with Garth, who had lost his own wife. She could have seen it as why Garth was very solid in his personality. He couldn't go on if he didn't just let it stay in the past for him. I don't think he was kept alive for a mere alibi. With Emmet clearly trespassing, it just seems so clear that it would be him to outsiders, especially when he was accused, rightly, of convincing Dylan to jump by the people he killed. It would also affect her story when they check the phones that we can tell are not cut off but Garth heard her say they were. He just caught her off guard from the moment she saw him. Whether it was not expecting someone else there or that she just saw such a contrast between him and the boys she was with. I definitely don't view it as platonic, even Bird notices her eyes on him when they pan back to his face and his rudeness to Garth. And he has an interest in her, clearly noticing she is different from these friends. It's important to her since she told Emmet how different they were from them. Emmet didn't really believe it but Garth did notice. For Garth as well that he ignores Chloe's attempt at seduction. Girls like her and Marlin just can't keep his attention.

I don't think Mandy was ever going to kill herself and Emmet knew that and tried to have her take both pills and first. The kiss has more to do with stalling for time. She saw Garth coming out the house, in serious pain so he was moving slowly. I also think she didn't want Garth to die right there. Perhaps another vulnerable scene where she lashes out screaming no, pushing Emmet away from him while stabbing him. Perhaps a kinship in Garth because he doesn't let things affect his emotions. Like when he kills the cows, it seems Red is more upset as though Red had some emotional connection to them despite the fact that it was Garth who would have raised them. Red's comment that Garth did that all by himself, like how could not have others do it for him. As Garth said he took care of it. Maybe that's another reason why Mandy killed Chloe. That instead of having Emmet finish them all off, she would do what she had to. I doubt Garth would go for Cousin Jen, she seems more in the Chloe/Marlin category to me, where they just won't hold his attention.

reply

[–] Girl_Number_6 15 years ago

Dave Johnson, you've just given me a whole new insight and by golly, I think you might have it all sussed!!! It sounds pretty right!!

Ban the BJ

reply

[–] Kyos 15 years ago

Ah, interesting discussion!

reply

[–] Quiet-Living 14 years ago

This is a response to Dave Johnson's excellent post with which I agree mostly, except for the part about Garth.

Mandy Lane is simply too cold for me. I can't help but wonder if she merely used her vulnerability to build a relationship with Garth in order to avoid suspicions in the aftermath. Even after Garth tells her "you saved us" at the very end, she has this smirk on her face, displaying satisfaction and pride rather than relief or concern or true worry or affection for Garth.

Mandy Lane is a people watcher, as you pointed out. So she must have dissected Garth, collected information, and figured out how to act in order to gain his trust. Garth has a clear attraction for Mandy, but who's to say that Mandy's feigned attraction to Garth isn't another form of manipulation?

Mandy can almost be seen as a psychopath (although as someone who is not well-researched, save movies and TV shows hahaha, on psychology, I can't say for certain). She seems to me nearly devoid of true emotion, save towards her parents, and possibly towards her Aunt Jo.

What I question, again as in my previous post, is her true motive. As you pointed out also, I do believe that the whole scheme has to involve her parents, but how directly is another question to be asked.

I loved your post btw. Stimulating and thought-provoking.

reply