MovieChat Forums > Conversations with God (2006) Discussion > Talk God, and the atheists come out to p...

Talk God, and the atheists come out to play.


I find it amazing that whenever a movie/book/etc. comes out about God, or believers in something that exists beyond what we can see, that the atheists come out of the woodwork and work overtime to force their non-belief down believers' throats by criticizing them and belittling them by suggesting they believe in "fairy tales" and such.

What makes you people so unhappy, and so disturbed by the fact that other people believe in a God or an after-life, that you feel you must do everything you can to drag them down? I suppose you all are just another example of the most vile, egotistical side of the human species, a minority(yes, you are an extreme minority world-wide) that feels threatened by something they simply don't have the capacity to understand. I won't even say something silly like "I feel sorry for you," because I don't. You are the way you are.

You have a right to believe what you want, of course. So do the over 90% of Americans who believe in God, and the vast majority of people worldwide who do as well. I guess we're all quacks though. I guess we might as well pray to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy too, eh? At least that's what you imply by denigrating adults who believe in God. I suppose maybe you don't believe because you've found new faith, a faith in the scientific books you studied in college. You know, the same books written by imperfect human beings who also didn't believe in God, and yet somehow became standard literature for every student.

In a sense, you're just as much "religious extremists" as any person from the far-right Christian group, except you reside on the far left where so-called "intellectuals" pat themselves on the back for not having "faith" in anything unless it can be empirically tested and proven in a lab. Then, in your spare time, you make sure to convince yourselves that everyone who does believe in God must be lower and inferior to you, even though you have no clue how many of them are also highly educated people. What's puzzling in all of this is why education even matters when it comes to matters of faith. Just because what's written in the Christian Bible, for instance, can't be tested and proven like an experiment in a chemistry text, doesn't mean it isn't true. One has nothing to do with the other anyway.

Finally, in some ways it does take a simple, child-like approach to understand and believe that there's more than what we can see, smell, hear, taste, and touch. Whether that belief is developed through an organized religion, or if it simply comes from the common sense notion that something can't come from nothing, it's still a powerful and enlightening experience for those who have it. Just as a car, a house, a television, a cell phone, etc. are created by intelligent beings who use materials to make them, the same can be argued for this world and the universe that surrounds it. Obviously, the debate won't stop there though. The inevitable and infinite question always arises, "well then who created God?" or "who created the being that created God?", etc. Nobody knows that answer, of course, just as they don't know the answer to a lot of things. The truth is it's way beyond the capacity of human knowledge and understanding, and it's something that each and every one of us will truly only know when our mortal bodies die. Those who believe they have the absolute answer and try to force it down other's throats are only egotists, hence the atheists who make it their duty to come to a message board for a religious/spiritual movie on imdb.com to tell all the believers how stupid and silly they are.





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...the atheists come out of the woodwork and work overtime to force their non-belief down believers' throats...


That is possibly the most ironic, hypocritical comment I have ever heard. You could actually switch all of the words around and it would be a perfect description of believers' attitudes towards non-believers.

So, believers never impose their beliefs on other people, huh? I must be imagining the countless unsolicited visits I have received from over-enthusiastic believers trying to impose their views on me. As long as believers feel the need to "spread the word" about their belief, then non-believers have an equal right to spread their word about their disbelief, would you not agree?

Personally, I have thoroughly looked at all aspects of theism and atheism, and have drawn my own logical conclusion. The majority of people however are classically conditioned in their beliefs, through a combination of reiteration and negative reinforcement (i.e. if you don't believe this, you will burn in hell, etc.) I have COMPLETE respect for individuals who have drawn their own philosophical and theological conclusions from the wealth of information available to us in this information-rich age - regardless of whether they are theists or atheists, they have thought things through for themselves and drawn their own conclusion. I have ZERO respect for those individuals that have blind faith - people who narrowmindedly believe something purely because it's what their parents believe, or because it's been instilled in them since they were young and impressionable.

I thoroughly believe in every individual's right to their own beliefs, and for that they should not be subject to any prejudice or persecution. Sadly, the majority of prejudice or persecution in the world is a direct result of religion, and most religions' intolerance of other religions, agnosticism and atheism.

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[deleted]

You'll find them in all stripes and colors: Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, agnostics, aetheists and any other denomination you can think of.

There are really one two kinds of people in the world: nice ones and the opposite. And each of those two categories can be found among any and all groups.

I'm a Unitarian Universalist and our members believe in all kinds of things. One of the kindest and most helpful people there is an atheist. And look at Ann Coulter who calls herself a Christian. That woman, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have a Christian bone in her body. She's just mean and nasty. And so it goes.

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I'd say atheist Sam Harris is just as mean as Ann Coulter, maybe even meaner!

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It's not people's religious views but their characters that make the difference. I'm sure you'll find just as many Deists who decry this movie because it talks about God as revealed to Walsch rather than the God of the Bible. It's the same close-mindedness at work here.

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Atheism is a religion that contains several fanatical leaders such as David Bedford (self ascribed messiah), Richard Dawkins (Who wants to de-religionalize the world), and Sam Harris (believes in "good" torture of muslims). If you read what these nuts wroite, you can see the hypocrisy they preach and the lunacy of atheism. Its like the rise of the thid reich all over again. Atheism is a religion, it requires just as much faith to not believe in a CREATOR and believe in "other" explanations as it does to believe. To all those atheists who believe that religion in one's life hinders your intelligence, well I just have to suggest to them to research all of the scientific breakthroughs in the world by people who believe. To start with, look up the leader of the human genome project.

Thats all folks!

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[deleted]

To jonesy4805:

Your hope that physicists will find a string to link multiverses together is your faith in another existence. Unfortunately buddy, you become foolish to assume all people who believe in an afterlife are "crazy" or "radical", as you put it.

Basically, your a moron... a pot calling the kettle black.

Grow up and get rid of your stereotypes and prejudices. And the nazis, along with Stalin's philosophy believed that only the strong and loyal should survive... and that religion was a hinderance. So before you make outlandish remarks, read a book and do some research before you distance your atheistic beliefs from governments who have failed while applying the same doctrines of your hypocritical religion!

Good luck pal!

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atheism is not a religion you moron. if so, can you name the book we follow like sheep? Unlike theists, you have what's called the bible that rules your life and tells you how to live your mundane life. What book might atheists have? Oh wait, we have what's called common sense, which is much more valuable than some stupid book written by drunk hippies some 2000 years ago.

Also, for the grammatically challenged (and just plain ignorant), atheist is not capitalized unless at the beginning of a sentence...

Considering that the number of god freaks outnumbers heathens, we have every right to complain due to the oppresive nature of religion.

------
Bush'ite: n: subhuman that voted for Bush.

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There is a big difference between a Creator and a God who cares about you. Humans are so stuck on the later that they selfishly think that the'a Creator is their own personal busboy who exists solely to clean up after tham.

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A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. - David Hume

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I'm also an atheist but I have no problems with the bible / christians.
Look at muslims, they are the real donkeys.

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Ateo! Yeah you... Hey moron... when you begin a sentence you always capitalize the first letter... (Atheism as opposed to your "atheism") why don't you proofread your crap before you post it. Talk about gramatically challenged.

Dawkins writes his stuff for sheeple like your self. Those with some type of hang up or problem with people with different walks of life. You are intollerant of religions, and your hatred that you and Dawkins spew out is no better than what Hitler did.

Also you are judeo-christianphobic, your argument that a scripture of some kind is required to constitute a religion is not only laughable, but displays your ignorance of religions. As you may or may not know, Shinto (a japanese religion) does not have a God, nor a leader of any kind. In fact there are no scriptures relating the principles of Shintoism. Nothing is written down except to respect the earth and objects that comprise the world. Can you not see now how Atheism is a religion... or do you still choose to bury you head in the sand and remain close-minded?

Both require a faith in what they believe in, and both do not require a leader or scriptures to become an active participant.

Ateo, do us all a favor and pick up a dictionary... religion basically reads that any group of people with one cause is a religion. In you atheistic case... the cause is to ridicule all religions (namely judeo/christian) and declare that no God exists. Your bias against religions is your own, and hopefully you will become tolerant of others in the future.

Good luck pal!

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Well, 9/10:
"yourself" has no space... intolerant is spelt so.
Why do you choose to capitalize Shinto and atheism, yet not Judeo/Christian?

I've always thought that capitalization at the start of paragraphs on a medium as informal as a message board is a matter of style rather than correct grammar. But what do i know?

(My edit was to change the subject to this post... not caused by a lack of proofreading.)



"I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature... Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world." - Thomas Jefferson

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Atheism is as much as a religion as Shintoism is!
Shinto is a Japaneese religion that contains no authors, scriptures, or leaders. Yet, it is still hailed as a religion.

Atheists have their own preachers... David Bedford, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, only to name a few!

So grow up pal, and get your head out of that hole!

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Bigots, morons, idiots, illiterates, fanatics...the names you call yourselves... It's truly a sight to behold.

Technically, atheism is much a religion as any other. You have beliefs (no supernatural being tormenting you with commandments or telling you how to live your life), you preach them to other people, you exercise your faith of non-belief. Sure, you probably don't have any rituals or ceremonies where you celebrate it, but it doesn't really matter.

I will, however, agree with the fact that religion (or its opposite)doesn't mean squat s*** when it comes down to the goodness of heart/soul/amigdallia/your crotch/wherever you think your morality is cowering.

There are good people and there are bad people. And there are people just trying to stay alive, one day at a time. Are you, or me, some of those people scraping by to breathe another day? Not really. Have you ever questioned yourselves why are they struggling not to get a bullet through their head or eat that week old slice of bread and a drop of water to boot once a week, only to live enough to see their weak and diseased children go through the same hell they have to? Did you ever wonder why are we shocked because we eat too much, and obesity has become the number one medical problem in developed countries while we destroy our planet and give nothing in return save pain and suffering?

Is it chance, fate, luck? Can CHANCE be empirically proven or tested in a lab? can it be seen? Cause and consequence are points A and B, chance is the blank space in between the two. And you believe in that, right? Or are you afraid of it? Probably both, because fearing the unknown and believing in it are, more often than not, the same thing.

Humanity will pass, just like the dinosaurs did. We think we are smarter, but in essence, we are simple animals who are afraid of the unknown. Always have been, always will be. Whether you boast you believe in sth or don't and cram it in someone's throat on a daily basis or don't, doesn't really matter.

Humanity is small, puny and insignificant. We all deal with that fact in one way or the other, so why debate it or picker over it. Just embrace it. We are born to live in a lie, we only have to choose a manner in which to live through it.



The spice must flow!

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The real challenge is being an agnostic. You have to argue with the theists about their holey doctrines and faulty logic, AND you have to argue with the atheists about how atheism is based on faith and they're being hypocrites. Not only that, agnostics have to keep an open mind, because we admit that we just don't know. And we can't know. And that neverending state of doubt takes its toll on some people, so they convince themselves that they know beyond a doubt that god is/isn't real.

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I've settled the problem by simply saying, "This is what I have CHOSEN to believe and this is why I've chosen it." If anyone disagrees, fine, they're not me. If anyone provides a persuasive argument so that I readjust my beliefs, that's fine, too.

My point is that personal choice gets me off that particular hook. I don't have to convince anyone else of anything, which I agree can be a burden. Why do people think they have to know someone else's, not to mention everyone else's truth? Your own should enable you to sleep at night. Make sense?

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[deleted]

why does everyone assume atheists have a faith that there is no higher power. I would consider myself an atheist but I don't have an overwhelming faith that there is no possibility of such a power. I just find that I have no belief IN a higher power and I doubt I ever will barring some actual miracle etc. Atheism is simply the absence of a belief, not a faith in disbelief, if that makes any sense

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First of all, there is a difference in believing in God, or an entire religion. All religions were created by men and often used "the church" to get things done, especially in the first century, they wrote and rewrote the bible, a book full of nice stories and even some truths, but I will never totally believe in the God the "church" represents, but that doesn't mean you can't believe in God. Who or what God is, may be different for every person, religion is just a way to get the 2 together, faithfull people and the church. Especially the Romans and even now with the Vatican, they have more power then any king or president, often use that power to get people on their side or even worse, their money and even get's powerfull people to do their bidding.

But to be fair, most churches are just a sort of sanctuary that's mostly used by all sorts of people, mostly just religious and good people that go there once a week or when they really need some guidence. I always thought I was an agnost, but now I don't know anymore. Is God just something we created, or was it because in those days they didn't know as much as they do now and everything they encountered that wasn't explainable in those days could be seen as a devine or evil thing. Like some illnesses, so called miracles that weren't explainable so they had to be something. I think a lot of what you read in the bible is eather symbolic or edited, (even though they didn't know what that word meant) and a lot of the psalms didn't even make it to the bible, even after the new testaments, especially when it came to women, they were eather a saint or a sinner and in those days there weren't many female icons. Even Mary was just a woman, she was just lucky that God chose her to be the virgin mother. And don't forget the other Mary, people often often mistook her for a whore, but if you read the bible, you'll never read that, it's just a flaw often made in books and such. Even now most churchgoërs still think that.

But I start to ramble on. I just tried to get a point across. Don't mistake religion and the believe most people seem to have in God, at least that there is one. One of you said that we can not sientificly proof there is a God. Well, maybe not, but there are a lot of things that can't be proven, like the paranormal for instance. I asked this of a woman, she's a Jehova Witness, but she was adament about this, she did't believe there was a god, she knew it and when I asked why, she replied, I just know, just like I know what day it is, it's a feeling, she said, strong andalways there. Yes, I replied, but that's because you're talking and thinking of him every day, reading and learning the bible in which she does believe. So I said; You believe in God, because the bible told you so!! She had the same respons as always and that's that she just knows and that feeling has never left her, that God is in and around us just as long as you let him, but that's not enough for me, I don't feel any devine presence, no matter how much I'd like too, believe me, I tried, but I'm not sure what I suppose to feel. I dó believe in nature, I think that's my God, I love nature and when I am outside I try to enjoy it as much as I can, nature is the true devine 'thing' to me....

You posin' for pictures? Or you gonna pull the trigger? (Crime Story)

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my apologies in advance (as a sort of disclaimer) that this response has nothing whatsoever to do with the film in question and everything to do with the confusion and illogical assumptions made concerning the most widely debated approaches taken to spirituality and religion (theism, agnosticism, atheism).

as a philosophy graduate, i appreciated someone willing to articulate the difficulties faced when actively maintaining a lack of subscription to dogma and doctrine of both extremes. regardless of my subjective inclinations, i continually find agnosticism to be the most intellectually stimulating and productive form of employing a healthy level of skepticism with regards to the mere issue of spirituality. i'd cite david hume, most notably, for his use of skepticism not as a self-defeating, destructive force, but as the most balanced approach one can adopt in any attempt or quest to discover and establish objective knowledge (be such a discovery even a possibility). i'm not without respect for theists - especially those who approach their beliefs as little more than what they metaphysically are (opinions) - but i cannot endorse the abstract speculation and overgeneralized induction theism regularly resorts to, without justification for doing so. i find even the best articulated cases arguing atheism to be somewhat self-defeating in the presuppositions to which they commit themselves. an utter denial of the existence of something on an objective level is an insult to the potential of human consciousness. we may know that we DON'T know, but this knowledge in no way justifies us to make claims asserting the nonexistence of anything, most especially an entity whose 'existence' (whether as an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent ruler of the universe, or as an anthropologically based projection of the human psyche) cannot be determined with any bit of empirical certainty which would hope to ascend to the level of objectivity. even the most universally accepted natural laws (gravity) of science ascend to the objective level only when such a 'law' can be established so that were the necessary alternative, diverse conditions in fact present, the 'law' would fail to obtain with any measure of truth. a skeptical attitude of agnosticism is far more difficult to maintain with active consistency than either attitude proposed by theism or atheism. the agnostic practicing either philosophy or theology is ultimately always held accountable to and in themselves for any theory put forward or knowledge claim made. subscription to, and even denial of, the existence of an objectively supreme entity quite rarely requires subjective justification and internal consistency for the knowledge claims each position asserts. whether it be a semantic, historical, or psycho-social issue, i strongly believe a redefining of spiritually loaded terms (especially with regards to agnosticism) is needed for the clarification of the viewpoints represented in modern society.

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Has it forgot to take its Prozac? What a load of drivel is exhibited by the above post. I agree with another poster who told it plain and simple: It's usually the other way around. When a man like Dawkin's or Sagan or Dan Barker writes a book questioning the tenets of religious dogmas-- which of course, may or may not be true---or the existence of God---who may or may not exist---the Fundies arise en masse and blast the guy, and hurl insults like "Satanist", "In league with demons", "God-hater", "Communist" and what not. As for myself, who has posted a few times here and there, I am often confused with an atheist which is not exactly true. Like Spinoza, the heretic Jew wrote: Nature, the Universe has most or all the qualities attributable to God . It is my Ultimate Cause, my Ultimate Source, and to which I'll return. However, like Spinoza, I have serious doubts over survival of death. Nature's way has never been to retain the old, but rather replace the old with the new. Old creatures die out to be replaced by the New, and so Evolution moves on. However Nature has virtually every quality God is usually claimed to have. People say, but who created Nature or the Universe and if you say "God", you have a problem because if Nature cannot exist in se without requiring a creator, than neither can God and you end up in an infinite reqress. That goes nowhere like the belief that the World rested on the back of an elephant who stood on the back of a Turtle and as Russell pointed out we end up in a nightmare, because then what does the Turtle rest on? Is it "turtles all the way down" as one lady suggested? If you say the Universe is too complex, especially the living things in it, to be a result of change and invent a "God" as creator, you are in a similar bind, as God possesses too high a complexity to have resulted from chance as well. So "God" as an answer to "Who made me, or Who made the Universe?" is a cop-out, and answer that tells us absolutely nothing. In reality, the Earth does not require the support of anything as it basically floats in space held in orbit by the gravitation of the Sun. Just as the Earth does not require support, and note the Bible refers to the Earth resting on "pillars" as opposed to Atlas or Elephants, a common error in the thinking of ancient peoples everywhere. Likewise, it is not really necessary that Nature or the Universe have a creator, in fact Nature is OUR creator. Nature made us. And technically speaking the Universe in the definition of "The Ultimate System that contains all things that exist, if so would include God, and therefore be bigger than God." By Cantor's set theory, if Set A contains C,D, and E and set B contains only C and D, then A must be greater than B. The Universe containing God would be primary and God secondary, himself a creation of Natural forces. Either way, Nature is primary, and there is no other Ultimate cause for the existence of you or anyone else, but for a proximate cause, the question "Who made me?" is rather simple, so simple most blockheads can't see it. The answer is simply "My parents" without them, Nature, God or not, there would be no you. And it is a simple fact, that even if your parents planned on having a child, instead of your conception catching them both unawares, they still didn't plan on having YOU. They had no idea what or who they would get. Maybe in time science will allow a couple to chose the sex, race and complete DNA of a child with harmful defects or genes edited out. Still, your existence was not planned or intended by your parents in anything more than general details. They got you simply by the luck of the draw. Likewise with Nature. Nature is the Ultimate Power. The Sun itself is a tiny fraction of the power that is Nature's and in a single second releases more energy than what would be released by all of mankind's nuclear arsenals going off at one time. But did Nature plan you, have you in mind from the start? Why it is impossible to prove this is false, it is easily seen as highly improbable. Your existence is caused, but not planned. It is, simply, happenstance, a roll of the dice, a draw of the cards. Your exact DNA sequence is largely randomized. And those who known Nature know that she has no regard whatsoever for the individual. I and you can love Her, but she cares not one whit for any of us nor is concerned to keep our existence beyond the tiny fraction of time we have as ours.

In this sense Neale Walsch is right. We have total control over our lives and our destiny. Whatever we want for us is what Nature[God] wants. What is objectionable is Neale Walsch's claim to essentially be a prophet receiving a revelation from God. His claim that his message, however good some of it may be, is from God is necessary for any sane person to challenge and question. I have read the CWG trilogy and some of the supplementary volumnes. There is absolutely nothing new in it, in fact God acts more like the type of motivational speakers with a mild blend of New Age philosophy that are so common in some corporations to instill some spirit, some cooperation in their employees. The use of Acronymns like F.E.A.R or False Evidence Appearing Real is the norm by these platitude speaking corporate revivalists. However, one thing is certain, God should be able to get his facts right, and would not hold as factual every ridiculous miracle story from the past. To accept everything from Altantis to the Flood, to Reincarnation, to Jesus walking on water or born of a virgin, to Sai Baba's divinity is merely the grossest form of credulousness, rather common in New Agers, but not exactly of God. Also "God" in one of his later books uses the term "Light-years" as a time not a distance, a rather juvenile mistake, but one that would be impossible with God. Email me if you want the exact instance of this little "Snafu" on "God's" part.

In fact, most atheists are not opposed to the concept of God, it's just that every "god" that people come up with and claim, "This is the One" turns out to be faulty, hollow, stupid or just plain cruel, vicious and evil." As one of the Greek sages wrote "He is not impious who criticizes the gods. He is impious who holds the crowd's opinions of the gods." Actually, the atheist give God the benefit of the doubt. They say that if there were God, they'd have to be a lot better, wiser, and intelligent than mankind's mythological gods who behave like a bunch of imbeciles. It is the Clergy, the Devout who have made God into a monster, a laughing stock, an absurdity no sane person would want. But then I care not, neither holding Theism or Atheism, but rather knowing that Nature made me, and when I die, I'll return to same, or a least the elements making up my body will return to the ground to be eventually recycled. As for beyond that, I can speculate as well as anybody, but that'd be absurd, pointless. The agnostic stance is the most logically tenable when it comes to some questions where we really don't have enough evidence to base anything on.

So who is the God of Neale Walsch? Where does the message come from. It comes from his own unconscious mind, it comes from everything he's seen and read and heard. The unconscious mind is extremely powerful and can easily do and say everything in the CWG books. The farthest I or anybody could rightfully go is to say he was connecting with the highest or deepest or wisest part of himself. Beyond that I will not go. Some of it is good, some of it great, but a lot of it is absurd, and some of it just plain wrong. God is not the likely source, unless God is seriously messed up. Here is one place I agree with the Bible. God is not going to be one thing in the past and another thing today, but will espouse the same philosophy always and not go from maniacal self-righteous murderous tyrant to a blend of Dr. Phil and some corporate New-Age motivational speaker. Have no doubt, Neale Walsch is a very intelligent guy and has made himself a bundle from his writings. But I'll tell him and the whole world this, once he has created a religion based on this book and has the status of a clergy, which is close to actuality, his message will be turned into just another chain on the minds of mankind, and we'll all be less free, less enlightened than when we started. I've heard these motivational speakers, these guys who think positive thinking and creative visualizations can accomplish anything like the guy who made millions off his book "Think and Grow Rich". Well, he got rich from the book, not visualizing wealth in some quasi New-Age claptrap as he instructs his readers. It's like buying for $19.95 the Easy Money Making Secrets and Guide to Wealth by some WallStreet Maven. They'll get rich from all those people buying their product, but you'll be $19.95 poorer.

Philosophy: questions that may never be answered. Religion: answers that may never be questioned.

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I find it amazing that whenever a movie/book/etc. comes out about God, or believers in something that exists beyond what we can see, that the atheists come out of the woodwork and work overtime to force their non-belief down believers' throats by criticizing them and belittling them by suggesting they believe in "fairy tales" and such.
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First of all arrow-18, I am GOING to get angry in the coarse of this post. a lot of this.. and indeed MOST of it.. is not aimed specifically at you. This is not a personal attack. I just want that clearly stated because you just happened to hit a nerve.

So here goes:

I believe in anyone's right to choose what they believe in. I'm an athiest but I used to be a Lutherin until 1983 when my Pastor told me that Star Wars was evil because it had black magic in it. I was 9 at the time.. You didn't diss on Star Wars. God vs SW.. God Lost.. because you have to have priorities. :)~

The reason athiests act that way is very simple. Christians do NOT believe in a person's right to choose ANYTHING.

Working my way backwards through history, let's take a look at christian toleration... I'm sure this will be a short list.

*On January 10, 2004 I walked past an abortion clinic (WALKED PAST mind you.. wasn't going there to have an abortion.. I hadn't gotten some catholic girl preganant or anythig.. I was just walking my legally blind a$$ past this place to catch a bus) and was pelted with rocks. Pro-lifers pelted a blind person with rocks because I walked by a clinic that was involved in a process they didn't like.

*In 1998 I voted for the medicinal marajuana law (I'm in California for the record) and the law passed. The Christian sherrif of Orange county announced the day after that "I don't care if they have a permit or not I'm going to arrest them anyway"

*The MPAA has a catholic bishop and a protestant... I don't know whatever the F--- protestants have on the ratings board. I refer you to "This Film is Not Yet Rated" on this point. This means they have a say in what I, a non-christian can watch. As a result, you can see all kinds of violence, you can see people cut up and ripped apart, but show some sex... show someone have an orgasm and God forbid. This is christian thinking.. When I used to go to Sunday school I'd sing "Onward christian soldiers" right up until I realized what I was singing.. then I got sick to my stomach.

*Ever since I can remember, F---ing christians have been trying to tell me what music I could listen to, what movies I can watch, what Videogames I can play, how I could wear my hair, what shirts I could wear.. if there's an aspect of life that they can stick their meddling noses into, they don't miss it.

*The former extends into what I call the christian theory of knowledge, which is.. if you can learn something, it must be bad. Think about it, you see a book burning, a record burning, you see people picketing or boycotting books you're gonna find christians. One of the reasons I like messing with christians is because 99.9% of them have never actually read the Bible. They just get their minister's interpretation on the subject. I have read the Bible (it's been a while I'll grant, but I did read it :)) and if you are a christian you should read it. My friend (who has less vision than I do) had never read the Bible and claimed to be a christian, He asked me to read him the Bible and I ded, he got to the middle of Judges and disavowed catholicism saying "Any religion that is rooted in this book can only bear bitter, twisted and evil fruit." Knowledge is a threat to christians, so they try to destroy it whenever they can, even to the point of discouraging people from reading their own holy book - why do you think they didn't want Martin Luther to translate the Bible into any language people knew?

*There's also the drug issue. Fundy christians were responsible for Prohibition. But check it out. There's no secret that christianity and bigotry go hand in hand. Tabacco is legal and so, dispite fundy attempts, is alchahol. Why are these things legal? Because these are what white people drink. The christians got Marajuana (the single most harmless drug on the planet) banned because of it's use by mexicans. They got Cocaine banned by connecting it bo african-americans and they got Opium banned because of paranoia about.. and I quote a newspaper article of the time: "Good chritian women being lured into opium dens by chinese for immoral practices".

Going back in history you have the KKK who claimed to be good christians, The slave traders and slave owners all believed themselves to be good christians.

Further back there's the Thirty years war, christians fighting to eradicate anyone who didn't share the exact brand of chritianity THEY Did, The Spanish inquisition, The Albagensian(sp) crusade? The Constant burning of "Heretics"

I've been picking on christians here because they are the dominant religious force in America. But any other monotheistic religion has the same problem, I knew a jewish kid who had to throw away his Pokemon cards because his mother said that they broke the commandment that prohibited Graven images.. so God apparently looks like Pikachu. I wasn't aware. There are also the wars between arabs and isrealis.. anywhere you find theism, you find death and war. ENTIRE CULTURES have been wiped out because of this construct called God. Oh, and let's not forget 9/11.

So why does it disturb ME that YOU believe in a God? It doesn't, Why does it disturb me when OTHER PEOPLE believe in a God? Because God is a sufficient condition for censorship, bigotry, repression, violence and ignorance. I for one am tired of it and I'm tired of ignorant christians dictating aspects of my life they have no business butting into.



My name... is GEO!!!

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*medium applause* well spoken, Geo!

I live in Germany, where, according to current statistics, 30% of the population are registered undenominational. But are there any undenominationals/agnostics/atheists in any ethics committee?
Nope.

The thing about being an Atheist is that as soon as you publicly admit it, you are more likely being attacked than any other group. Oh, and as soon as you're admitting that you're an atheist (... as if it was a crime... ), you are being accused of throwing your "belief" in everyone else's face. Even if it more sounded like "mumble.mumble.I don't believe in a superior being, sorry. But since you asked... mumble.mumble.and.general.shuffling.of.feet."

Intolerance? Especially given the fact that no atheist ever attempted to bomb anything, burn anyone for differing beliefs, or woke any good citizen on a sunday morning with a pamphlet. Not to mention the rock-throwing, which seems to be a nasty habit shared by Christian Fundamentalists and Islamists. Interesting that in both cases the rocks are being thrown at women. ( The Jews seem to refrain from it as of late. )

For the record: As long as you stay out of my yard, I'll stay out of yours. And maybe, one day, when we all have evolved a bit...


PS I am waiting for an Atheist Ribbon, but I just don't know which colour is left for us. Maybe we can ask the gay community if they can move up a little bit and spare us some seats in their ranks... at least we'd look fabulous.

( Nota bene: May contain irony. )

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---"My point is that personal choice gets me off that particular hook. I don't have to convince anyone else of anything, which I agree can be a burden. Why do people think they have to know someone else's, not to mention everyone else's truth? Your own should enable you to sleep at night. Make sense?"---

And THAT is what separates evangelistic Christians from atheists who spread their disbelief.

Evangelism is based on love. If you can't see that you're just not thinking hard enough and outside of your own point of view. A Christian sees that they know the truth, and they know that the truth is sending them to Heaven and not Hell. They don't want to see other people go to Hell. Why would any loving person not want to save someone from that?

However atheists who feel the need to spread their disbelief to others do so out of selfish insecurities. The desire for others to believe in the same thing they do in order to make them feel better about those beliefs. There is nothing loving about it. What you think your saving us from soberness and celibacy? If that's you, you need to grow up. And you will. One day you'll realize that all those things like alcohol are a waste of time. We just skip all those wasted years. That makes people feel insecure about how they live and they try to make people believe what they do. There is no love in spreading atheism.

No the world does NOT need people like Richard Dawkins who just can't live with people believing in something he doesn't agree with.


And now for "geometroid".

Ok there was something wrong with pretty much every sentence you wrote down.

First of all you listed maybe 10 Christians who have those twisted views. And you believe that all Christians are like that. That's the same logic racists and sexists use against minorities.

A lovely artificial statistic --"99.9% of them have never actually read the Bible."--

My church preaches reading the bible every day. Most of the people there do. Try to actually have a statistic from a source other than your anus.


And so there's two Christians on the MPAA (how the HECK did you find that out, I commend your researching). And you think that because of those two Christians, ALL the movies we watch, and their ratings, are completely influenced by these TWO people.

There is nothing Christian about believing violence is right and sex is wrong.
But I gotta say showing two people having real sex with close up shots to show all the details is definitely worse than showing pretend violence with make up and special effects.





Anyway why are we doing this?

This guy started this board because he was sick of being hated by atheists for his beliefs.

You can't deny that there are way more threads on this site that are started by atheists, dissing religion, than there are by Christians, embracing religion or dissing atheism.
You can't deny that.

So how can you talk about the oppressive nature of religion? Looks to me like the religious are being oppressed on this site. And this is not a biased site. Not an atheistic site, nor a religious one. Just a bunch of people who like movies.

True Christianity is not oppressive. It loves all people, no matter what their beliefs.

This guy (sorry forgot to check you name) wasn't forcing any beliefs on anyone. He was just defending his own because they ARE being attacked.

Yet you people are so blinded by anti-religious rage that the moment someone says something from a Christian point of view you immediately go into battle mode.

Can't we just stop fighting and live our lives in the real world?


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I think all logic points to the non existance of God.
The role of God is diminished as we learn more realities of our universe, all the time.
However, I am pleased for anyone who is lucky enough to be able to believe in a greater purpose and a real reason for living.

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Talk God and there are clerics & missionaries shoving *beep* up my face and your concerned about atheists. If they choose to disbelieve in the fallacies of religion; why are you being hypocritical upon their honest skepticism derived with rationality and speculation.

There's a whole pantheon of Gods were I reside. Which God am I supposed to simply believe in? Huh!

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First, when you say 90% please realize that 90% of Americans believe in "God," but that doesn't mean Judeo-Christian. Second, I can appreciate the anger of the atheist, I do not empathize, but I understand it in the absurd/existentialist twist of things. I understand why EVERYONE would be angry at how the The Bible has been warped by all manner of people to justify practically anything - Like "killing in the name of Jesus." But I'll NEVER understand the venomous Christian. I figure a Christian would pray for the nonbeliever and forgive.

Understand that a Christian is supposed to proselytize. As a Quaker I've always been told to avoid such, so I have no idea how far it goes. I like to think atheist have valid points as do the ambassadors of any religion. Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, and so on, are all philosophers with interesting things to say.

Oh yes, and I feel for the agnostics, having leanings towards such in my own way. Maybe everyone can sit down and watch the movie and, I don't know, take something from it. In this film, I took everything as being The God Within. I expect any message is applicable if you want it to be.

All Best.



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That was beutifully said.

This discussion could never lead to anything, i have read it all and still dont know what the actual point was. Atheists and theists are probably just as wrong as they are right. I do am a theist, a pantheist to be honest.

Did you guys know that it was scientificly proven that believing in a higher power is better for your body?

I think its a shame when people talk about God, everyone thinks about the christian God. Something we should really change. Zeus was a God, why dont we think about him when someone talks about God, just because the Christians wernt creatife about the name for theyre God?

The Agnostics are doing things the smartest way probably, but also the most cowardly way. Still verry smart, but i doubt if they will ever find satisfaction.

Look at it this way, if you die what do you want?

If you are a theist you can be right or wrong, if your wrong there is nothing to worry about because there will be nothing there, if your right you may be happy.

As an Agnosticus you cant be right nor wrong, where is the fun in that?

As an Atheist you can only be wrong, cause if youre right there is nothing and youll wont know that your right.

Being a theist is logically more satisfying.
The atheist know how everything came, now why.

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Im happy to be a Buddhist. I cant find a single fault with it no matter how far back I look and its pretty hard to allow for forms of corruption, although it allows for the more logical aspects of all other religions with no condemnation for others beliefs in such things. They don't need to preach to you, they won't cesore others, lead others to violence EVER, or halt science. And they wont waste time argueing the Unknowable creation of the universe. I fully believe in reincarnation, because I believe in the history of it, not because of faith, and it just makes perfect logical sense to me since so few people seem to learn much within their single short lives.

If there is a purpose to life at all, it is to learn and perfect ones self and all its aspects cannot come about in one life and explains well why some people live horrible lives without equal opportunities. Those lives are experiences for an immortal soul. For each life to be free for new experiences, you cant bring much if any from previous lives. You have to experience the new life anew. But when its over that knowledge adds to what came before. I believe we carry knowledge gained from those previous life experiences in our subconscious as well.
Some Buddhists believe Karma determines the next life, but some also believe that we might choose each new life for the experience of living it and learning from its perspective. One might choose to be born blind in another life to understand perception another way. Its much like chooseing to watch a very scarey horror film. The experience.
There was a great short story I once read about a circle of gods who would each live mortal lives and then when they died they'd discuss the experiences they had in those lives. While they were mortal though, they didnt remember anything about their lives as gods, that would be cheating =)

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beutifull really!

I fully agree on the reincarnation thing and your ''soul'' choosing to be blind in the next life. Just for the experiences.

People can say but why would he do that, being blind isnt fun at all!

Your soul is not your personality your soul doesnt care about fun. It cares about experiences.

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My two favourite books are The God Delusion (Richard Dawkins) + Conversations with God = They are both exactly what the world needs nowadays. My views are presicely nailed down in both those books.

I see no contradiction with that. They both call for the same thing - belief in your own actions, look on the universe with a sense of wonder and amazement, and do your best by all people. Both books are on my pedastal.



..
Arrested Development 2009
http://www.arresteddevelopment2009.com
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