Good, but seems to ignore some film history!


First of all, the 80's slashers were just Giallo with teen/highschool settings and a little less plot (usually). And the Giallo genre began in the 60's! Why is this ignored or simply skipped over as if the Slasher genre was something completely new and unheard of? Even 'Black Christmas' (1974) is ignored, and that (as far as I know?) is the earliest film that fits the classic teen/highschool kids V crazed psycho slasher, mold. Man, 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre' doesn't even get a mention, which is ridiculous!?

I really thought this was slightly blinkered, but still a great documentary. 'Some' of the people commenting were a tad concieted and even claimed to be the originators of the genre, which is simply untrue!

Anyone else even aware of this!? I know there are ;)


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Yes, there were tons of movies not mentioned, but it's only an hour and a half documentary, you have to expect that. Since it's called the rise and FALL.., I don't think they should have mentioned anything past 1990. After that, when the Scream franchise was successful, it was a "revival" but again I don't think it should have been even mentioned in the movie.

Too many popular films were mentioned as well,they really should have tried to do bits on more obscure movies. I'm not really familiar with "giallo" but I'm guessing the filmakers of the documentary wanted to focus on American/Canadian productions which were influenced by those earlier films.

it wasn't as insightful as I'd hoped but I still think they did a pretty good job. Maybe there will be more footage on the DVD coming out soon.




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Who/What is Giallo?

"You can't throw him out, I won him!"
-Joon (Benny and Joon)

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Maybe this will help... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giallo#Film

Not sure if you happened to read the book but they do mention all of that a bit at the beginning, even Black Christmas and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Hope I helped some.

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They did have a bit about Mario Bava, who invented the giallo genre. The focus was mainly on American slasher films, so the influence of the giallo was mentioned, but they didn't spend to much time on it.

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While none of the elements in HALLOWEEN were original (they can all be found in earlier works), it was the first film to put them all together in one film and within a particular structure that would be imitated over and over. Both BLACK CHRISTMAS and THE TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE lack the link between sex and violence (neither have any sexual scenes), Black Christmas doesn't provide the same climatic ending as Halloween and most of its predecessors (a 5 second run to the basement doesn't really count as a battle/chase, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre lacks the point-of-view shots from the Killer's perspective that would result in so much controversy (people thinking it encouraged male audiences to identify with the male killer and derive pleasure from the murder scenes as if he was taking part in them himself), and the films of Bava and Argento, while full of creative, bloody deaths (obvious points of reference for FRIDAY THE 13th), simply don't follow the basic plot structure and all of its formal elements (past event where the Killer is responsible for, the victim of, or witnesses a tragic event, present event where he returns/seeks revenge, teenage characters, relateable everyday setting etc). The death scenes were also constructed with such flare and meticulous attention to detail that they are considered "blood art" as opposed to simple slasher scenes. All of this films played a huge part in influencing Halloween and Friday the 13th, but none of them are slasher films in quite the same way (I'd say Black Christmas is the closest though).

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[deleted]

So you mean to tell me movies like Bay of Blood, The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Deep Red, Tenebre don't play out like slasher films???

Halloween shouldn't be listed in that case. While Dr. Loomis isn't a detective he's on the hunt to stop Michael.

Black Christmas also has an investigation. So in that case BC shouldn't be listed as well.

I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache- Adrian Monk

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[deleted]

Well you obviously have a hell of a lot to learn about horror films in that case.

If you cannot see the influence Giallos had on slasher movies, well yeah not even gonna go there.

I'm willing to bet you haven't even seen those films.

I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache- Adrian Monk

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[deleted]

Fool?

WTF you 12-years old. Well if Tenebre isn't a slasher flick neither is Halloween.

I've wasted enough time on you. Say hello to ignore.

I tried doing that once, making every minute count. It gave me a headache- Adrian Monk

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[deleted]

YOU PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Halloween IS INDEED a a slasher film! because Michael Myers, well, um.. slashes! Black christmas and The Texas chainsaw massacre are INDEED slasher films OMG! Black chirstmas has POV and halloween copied the ending! The texas chainsaw massacre is played out like a slasher, teens running off somewhere there not supposed to! Hello My bloody valentine does that, the mine. the kids say: "hey lets go to the mine" and the die! TCM does that! And Bay of Blood and some Argento films are played out like slasher which makes them that!! USE YOU BRAINS!

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[deleted]

shut the *beep* up Dude!

you need to have your head examined! Galli are slashers! so is Halloween, Black Chirstmas, TCM, and other. GO TO SLASHER 101! i can teach u! jesus chirst! u know nothing FortySecondStreetFreak! and YOU are the *beep* first grader!

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[deleted]

sure, sure. tell me your reasons you think those movies are not played out like slasher films.
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The Slasher Film Formula is:

• Teens in Peril
• Suspense
• POV
• Gore (some dont have much, but its implied)
• Sex/Nudity (not in all, but some times, its implied)
• Going Places you shouldn't
• Isolated someplace (not all do this, but some do)
• Final Girl
• Masked Killer
• Twist Ending (again, some do this, but not all)
• Promiscuous Women
• Whodunit
• Investigations
• Helpless Victims
• Unstoppable Killer (used in the Halloween & Friday the 13th series)
• The killer almost always uses unconventional weapons, such as blades, chainsaws, cleavers, and blunt objects.
• Special Effects (not used in Halloween, Psycho, Black Chirstmas, TCM.)
• Cheesy Acting (sometimes)
• Electronic Music Score (is some cases, others use a string score)
• Set on a specific date (such as, Halloween, Chirstmas, Birthday, Prom night, Valentines day, April Fool's day, Mother's day, graduation day ,hell Night. some are not, such as, The Burning, the Prowler, Maniac, TCM, Psycho, Terror Train, Night Warning, House on Sorority row, ect.)
• Revenge (most slasher films do this. such as: Friday the 13th, My Bloody Valentine, Terror Train, Prom NIght)
• Humor
• Claustrophobic settings, or areas.
• Surprise, shock, or jump moments.
• School, or campus setting (used in Slaghter High, Hell Night, House on Sorority Row, Splatter Universtiy, Graduation Day, Black Christmas, Prom Night, The Prowler, Final Exam, The Dorm That Dripped Blood, Night School, Massacre at Central High, Happy Birthday to Me, The Initiation,
• Camp or Forest Setting (used in: Madman, Just Before Dawn, The Burning, Friday the 13th, Night Warning, Twitch of the Death Nerve, Last House on the Left, The Prey, Sleepaway Camp)

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do you know what TCM does, read on:

The film most often credited with establishing the "staples" of the slasher genre, including young people poking around in places where they don't belong (and harm consequently befalling them), the lone female survivor (or Final Girl), the lumbering masked killer who never speaks, etc.

Bay of Blood (Twitch of the Death Nerve) does this:

It truly borrows from (or aids giving birth to) the slasher genre. Halloween, Friday the 13th, Friday the 13th Part II, and others that followed stole an amount of kills for the formula.

Black Christmas does:

One of the first films to combine the elements of a murder mystery with the slasher genre. Notable for use of long tracking shots from the point of view of the film's killer, an element that would later be cemented by Halloween as a staple of the genre.


so FortySecondStreetFreak, have you learned anything yet? i hope you now know more about the slasher genre.
if not, i advise you to read this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slasher_film

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[deleted]

youre a bitch!

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It should be noted that MANY of the "staples" of slasher movies you've listed actually could be applied to any number of movies in almost any genre (i.e. "Set on a specific date.... some are not.").
Aside from that, many people here seem to not be able to grasp the idea that just because something heavily influened movies of a certain genre or subgenre, it does NOT mean that it too is a part of that genre. Conversely, other people don't seem to be able to accept that a movie can also fall into more that one genre or subgenre.
Now, as far as "slasher" movies go, I would think the main criteria to qualify is the presence of a slasher, which some commenters here seem to be unaware is a slang term for a serial killer. While there certainly can be more than one killer, much as can be the case in real life, I would say that although heavily influential on many of the horror and slasher films that followed, TCM is really more of a "survival horror" or "torture porn" movie than it is itself a slasher.
"Twitch Of The Death Nerve", by not really featuring any specific villain to be afraid of, also does not seem to really qualify. It IS however VERY influential on the films that followed, and is also basically the original "body count" movie.
"Black Christmas" IS definitely a slasher movie, however i'm not sure why you feel the need to point that out in your post, as if you had actually read all the other posts here, at no point did anyone seriously dispute that.

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on some levels, i agree with you. i guess TOTDN is not exactly a slashers but it was indeed VERY infulential. and once more BC is yes a slasher films. but wiht set on a specific date thing, i can disagree. but then again you are also right. so, im half 'n half.

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Black Christmas was the major influence John Carpenter had when shooting Halloween so even if it is not a slasher per say the film inspired the grand daddy of the whole genre

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Well, I totally agree with OpenStorage, I think that it needed to be longer so they could cover the bases of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Black Christmas(which they flat out ignore, there are like 2 clips from).I honestly think they talked way to much on Halloween and Friday The 13th (which to me I thought was okay, they give it way to much credit).I mean it was cool to see clips from those old slasher films, but it should have been longer.

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I think it's a lack of respect not mentioning "Black Christmas" as the first slasher. Even Halloween copied the concept of it. Billy was the first killer to introduce the POV.

"Hate is baggage, life's too short to be pissed off all the time".

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Actually no the first movies to feature POV killers were the spiral staircase from 1946 and even Alfred Hitchcock had some POV shots

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"I think it's a lack of respect not mentioning "Black Christmas" as the first slasher. Even Halloween copied the concept of it. Billy was the first killer to introduce the POV."

Incorrect, Blood and Lace 1971 was the film that Halloween ripped off big time. The whole opening sequence in Halloween with the Michael's POV was taken from Blood and Lace.

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Agreed.

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What about Herschell Gordon Lewis’ films?

Horror, Science Fiction & Fantasy

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They are not slashers merely splatter films big difference

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Pretty good documentary, but I agree it could have been better. There's also a part I disagree with. Joe Dante said the 80's had hardly any nudity/less nudity than the 70's. I think the 80's had more nudity than any other decade ever.

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A fair amount different TCM clips/posters/article references are shown, and Black Christmas is also featured in a similar manner in the documentary. A number of Argento films and others are also either mentioned by the interviewees, or displayed in articles/posters/stills/clips, etc. They didn't focus on these films as heavily as others because...they just didn't. But they didn't "ignore" or "forget" these films. You could argue for "neglect".

As for giallo films in general, not many would disagree that Psycho and Peeping Tom are the major cinematic origins of the slasher film. These take precedence over the giallo films because they predate them and are more deeply thematically linked (films about sexually charged serial killers vs crime dramas with a horror element). Dario Argento and his ilk, while wonderful and influential filmmakers (well, some of them), were just working in a different medium. Giallo is concerned primarily with crime and mystery, even when bodies are falling left and right. They are "thriller" films, more than strictly "horror" films. Mario Bava's The Girl Who Knew Too Much (considered the first giallo) was obviously a reference to Hitchcock. But you'll notice, not to Psycho, Hitchcock's proto-slasher. Instead, it was a nod to Hitchcock's crime/mystery/thriller side. You're conflating the importance and relevance of these films as they pertain to the subject at hand, apparently just so you can feel superior. But you don't have special knowledge, the filmmakers in and behind this documentary and most of us horror enthusiasts here are very familiar with Argento, Bava, Fulci, etc. It's just a different beast, and it wasn't the intention of this documentary to be about this particular beast. They chose a different one.

And Halloween, whether you like it or not, is the slasher film. You can point to influences, of course the film has influences. All filmmakers and all films are influenced by what comes before. To be the best, you do not have to also be the first. It usually takes a bit of time for someone to finally get it all just right. And many horror fans believe that Halloween was the film in which the slasher genre was crystallized and perfected.

If you wanted to watch a documentary about giallo films, you aren't the audience for this film. If you wanted a documentary about the obscure influences of Halloween, again, you're not the intended audience of this film. You aren't wrong for wanting these things, just...in the wrong place. This is a documentary about slasher films, pointing out that it isn't a different documentary about something else is not a valid critique.

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Yeah, Black Christmas and the original The Texas Chainsaw Massacre were both glaring omissions.

I've been chasing grace/ But grace ain't easy to find

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