Worst show ever made..... - The Dresden Files (2007) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

Just because it's different from the books doesn't make it bad by default. And the comment about the acting doesn't even deserve a response. Are you aware that the actor playing Dresden isn't even American? Are you aware the guy playing Bob is a Tony award winning Broadway icon? How about that Valarie Cruz got an ALMA nomination for her portrayal of Murphy? If you call that bad acting, I'd question what you'd call good acting.

By the way, I was twenty five when this show aired. I'm twenty nine now. I'm not hitting fifty five any time soon. So that's a really broad assumption there about the age of the viewers.

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[–] Viltrumite 13 years ago

Worst show ever made? You clearly don't watch enough TV. I love the Dresden books, but there are any elements that wouldn't work in a TV show because of budget, time, and most of all, it would be too weird for a mainstream audience.

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[–] CountDukems 13 years ago

I agree with the 1st poster, this show is BAD. I read the books too (I've read all but the 2 most recent, and I'll get to them soon). The problem isn't that it differs from the books, but HOW it differs.

The characters are all wrong. I understand you can't duplicate the characters in the book, but there are so many unncessary changes. Superficially: why cast someone who looks nothing like the Harry Dresden in the book: tall & lanky? Why get rid of Harry's signature duster? Why change his apartment so much? Why have him hang out at a diner instead of the wizard bar in the books?

But more importantly, why change everyone's personality so much? Harry is INTERESTING in the books. He's sarcastic and outspoken. He takes chances and lives by his own self-defined morals, which often bring conflict & cause problems for him. He's just kinda there on the show. Quiet & brooding. Zero personality. And Karen, who is supposed to look like a petite blond cheerleader but who is totally bad*ss? Fine if you don't wanna cast her that way I guess, but where is her personality? Why is Bob the Skull Bob the British dude, and what happened to his personality? I realize it wouldn't translate onscreen to have Harry talking to a skull nonstop, but at least think Bob's character out.

& the most disappointing thing is the use of magic (or lack thereof). Butcher does such a good job of describing the different aspects & uses of magic, and expanding upon them throughout the series. I realize this is a tall order for a TV show, but the magic on the show is just unoriginal & generic. It's almost an afterthought.

I agree you can't even attempt to 100% translate a series of novels onto the TV screen. But I don't understand some of the unnecessary changes, and why there wasn't more of an attempt to capture & reflect the universe and the characters that Butcher created.

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[–] CountVladDracula 13 years ago

I find it funny (no. LAUGHABLE) that you think the personalities were changed when that was one of the things Jim Butcher said they kept. In some Q and As with him (which can be found on youtube) he said that though Paul Blackthorne didn't quite look the way he envisioned Harry he did act like him.

The apartment was changed for practicality. Jim Butcher was very unrealistic about Harry's ability to be able to afford an apartment and an office (even if he doesn't pay electric). Just because it's in the books doesn't make it automatically good. Do you know how expensive an office in Chicago is? Combining the two made sense. It also made the scene changes and sets easier and made it so clients could interrupt him during the night among other things. Besides, both office and apartment don't exist anymore in the books so whining over a more practical set design is moot.

As for the magick on the show, do you forget they had to work with a TV budget? Be realistic. They had actual occultists on the set to help with the portrayal of magick as best they could to get it as accurate as possible. If you pause the DVD in his lab you'll see several occult references. Even the circular symbol on Bob's skull is from a real Grimoir. The Clavicula Solamonis. The Key of Soloman the king. And it was a spirit binding symbol.

We see Harry cast tracking spells, cast fire, blast people with his staff and wand, create an illusion of himself in a prison cell, brew potions, change the sign in a window (something book Harry can't do), and even turn a demon human! Hell, he sucked a dragon into Hell (Something book Harry still hasn't done).

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] CountDukems 13 years ago

I didn't read Butcher's comments. From my own perspective, Harry's personality seems very different. In the books he's sarcastic, outspoken, impulsive, and has an often inappropriate sense of humor. In the episodes I've seen he comes across as sort of intraverted/brooding. He's quiet & contemplative. Doesn't work for me. That's just my opinion.

Also, I never said anything about his office (if I remember correctly). What I said was that they unnecessarily changed his apartment. Why not have the visual of the trapdoor under the rug leading into his dark, secret lab? Or the dark stairs outside leading up to his reinforced metal door? The false-wall for the lab & the glass windows/door in the show didn't work for me.

I haven't seen all the episodes so maybe I shouldn't comment on the way magic is used throughout the show. But all I'll say is that in the books the use of magic is so well thought out & explained. Perhaps that's impossible to do on TV. Perhaps it gets better as the series goes on. All I know is I've seen 3-4 episodes & I don't think I've seen his staff or blasting rod once. I've seen multiple people/creatures walk into or even invade his home, which in the books wouldn't be possible based on the protections he puts up but also on the "natural" magic that surrounds ones home. I thought that was such a cool concept, that if you truly create a home, magical beings' power is at least somewhat diminished inside of it, if they can even enter.

I don't know, I guess I just like the books so much & the world Butcher created that the show just can't work for me. Just my opinion. If you enjoy the interpration, more power to you.

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[–] CountVladDracula 13 years ago

I didn't read Butcher's comments. From my own perspective, Harry's personality seems very different. In the books he's sarcastic, outspoken, impulsive, and has an often inappropriate sense of humor. In the episodes I've seen he comes across as sort of intraverted/brooding. He's quiet & contemplative. Doesn't work for me. That's just my opinion.

'It's a little late for that. The barn door's open and the bag is seriously devoid of cats.' - Drseden when he thought Murphy found out about the council in the show. Episode Things that Go bump.

'When someone tells me to stop, something in my brain says "Full speed ahead."' - Dresden when told to back off on a case in the Storm Front episode.

I haven't seen all the episodes so maybe I shouldn't comment on the way magic is used throughout the show. But all I'll say is that in the books the use of magic is so well thought out & explained. Perhaps that's impossible to do on TV. Perhaps it gets better as the series goes on. All I know is I've seen 3-4 episodes & I don't think I've seen his staff or blasting rod once. I've seen multiple people/creatures walk into or even invade his home, which in the books wouldn't be possible based on the protections he puts up but also on the "natural" magic that surrounds ones home. I thought that was such a cool concept, that if you truly create a home, magical beings' power is at least somewhat diminished inside of it, if they can even enter.

Budget of a TV show limited what they could do but he was able to blast people and things, set fire, change a window sign, send a dragon into Hell, throw up shielding, activate protection wards, use tracking spells, enhance his own sense of smell, and bugged a college dorm with literal bugs.

I like the books and the show, I just accept that they are two different entities and this is by far not the worst show ever made. I'm pretty sure that title is tied with Mary Knows Best and Flash Gordan.

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[–] Mykewood 13 years ago

I literally just bought the 1st book, Storm Front, 2 days ago. I loved it. I have not seen any episodes of this on Syfy, but I've read the comments here. These books could definitely work as a TV series. But it would need to be on one of the premium networks. HBO, Showtime, Stars... Weeds, Dexter, True Blood, The Big C, Hung, none of those shows could ever have worked on network tv.

Peter Gibbons: "It's not just about me, & my dream of doing nothing!"

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[–] CountVladDracula 13 years ago

The problem is

1. At the time there were only five books.

2. There really is a Karen Murphy working for the Chicago PD so they had to change her name to Connie.

3. The actress who auditioned for Susan played Murphy better so they sacrificed the hair for someone who could get the personality right.

4. The Tolkien estate threatened to sue if they used White Council since Jim Butcher admitted he got the name from Lord of the rings.

5. Test audiences who had not read the books did not like the talking skull used in the pilot episode so that's why Bob was given an upgrade (this is one change I actually not-so-secretly prefer.

6. Beetles are actually more expensive than Jeeps. Very expensive and Paul Blackthorne (Harry Dresden) being nearly six and a half feet tall could not tolerate being in a Beetle for as long as the show demanded (upwards of eight hours a day). It's a funny sight gag in the books but in real life that's brutal in a tall man's spine. So they swapped out a Beetle for a Jeep that was just as old and just as low tech or most of the show's budget would have gone to the car and buying Paul Blackthorne asperin. You still see the beetle briefly in the Storm Front episode though.

7. Someone sat down and estimated the cost of living in Chicago and realized that someone on Harry Dresden's income actually can't realistically afford both an apartment and an office, and also it was just more convenient for filing, to combine his apartment and office into one location.

And that is the explanation for most of the major changes for the show.

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[–] Mykewood 13 years ago

There are always going to be changes (some small, some not so small) when trying to bring a book to live action. Some things that simply take imagination in a book are just too expensive to film. That doesnt doom the project to failure. The best point is to capture the true spirit of the story.

My problem with with the Harry Potter movies had been only the 1st 2 movies captured the spirit of the books. Movies 3-6 were terrible, from a book lovers stand point. HBP part 1 was awesome thou. It totally captured the spirit of the book. Even thou it left some things out. So it can be done.

The spirit of the Dresden Files is much more about Harry personally than where the story takes place. He could live in Chicago, NYC, or Boise. Does it really matter? And the car? Really? "OMG he doesnt drive a Beetle." Are we really being that petty? He needs to have an older car so it fits the mold that modern electronics dont agree with him. But the actual make & model. Get over it.

Peter Gibbons: "It's not just about me, & my dream of doing nothing!"

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[–] stovex0r 13 years ago

6. I find it pretty hard to believe that the car scenes took upwards of eight hours of filming a day. And also for the record, there are 12 inches in a foot and Paul is 6'3", which is nowhere near six and a half feet tall.

7. But he can't really afford both an apartment and an office in the books either. The fact that he was so often behind on his rent and was often in desperate need of coming up with enough money to get by was often the reason he got himself into some of the ridiculous situations he did and took on outrageous cases that he otherwise would not have.

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[–] Viltrumite 13 years ago

Financial problems aside with renting two properties aside, I've never understood why no one's ever attacked Dresden at his office before Changes. We constantly hear about his defenses in his apartment, but as far as I can remember, his office is magically unprotected.

One thing from the books I think they should have kept was Dresden's coat.

"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"

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[–] CountVladDracula 13 years ago

6. I find it pretty hard to believe that the car scenes took upwards of eight hours of filming a day. And also for the record, there are 12 inches in a foot and Paul is 6'3", which is nowhere near six and a half feet tall.

Instead of answering me, why don't you do a google search about how long it takes to film most scenes for a TV series. And six foot three is no where near six and a half feet tall? Oh, right because THREE INHES is suddenly quite a lot... (That's sarcasm) Half a foot is six inches, I was THREE inches off.

7. But he can't really afford both an apartment and an office in the books either. The fact that he was so often behind on his rent and was often in desperate need of coming up with enough money to get by was often the reason he got himself into some of the ridiculous situations he did and took on outrageous cases that he otherwise would not have.

The fact is he's mere 'behind' on his rent in the books, but he's had both for over twelve years before what happens in Changes, which means he had to pay his rent at least semi-on-time for a regular basis, something that is actually financially impossible considering the situation.

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[–] ecanarensis 8 years ago

6. I find it pretty hard to believe that the car scenes took upwards of eight hours of filming a day. And also for the record, there are 12 inches in a foot and Paul is 6'3", which is nowhere near six and a half feet tall.

I know this is an older thread, but thought I'd jump in on that one comment: I have worked as an extra on TV series being filmed & can tell you from experience that it's totally believable that the guy could get stuck in a car for 8 hours, or 10 or 12. Depending on the actor(s), crew, extras, weather, planes flying overhead, & a zillion other things, it can take an unbelievable amount of time to film the simplest, briefest things. I very nearly died of boredom many, many times waiting for the whole kaboodle to get its act together (so to speak). One day it took over 5 hours for one of the leads to walk about 12 feet, deliver a plate of french fries to another extra, & say "Here you go." That was not an uncommon scenario, by any means.

And 6'3" is somewhere near 6'6".

I actually saw the series before I read the books, and liked it. I much prefer the TV Murphy to the relentlessly cute blond cheerleader of the book. I liked the guy that played Harry quite a bit, too. Another perspective.

Oh, I said i was only gonna comment on the one thing...oh well.

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[–] baqaqi 8 years ago

I find your claims about Paul Blackthorne's difficulty with a Beetle surprising. Beetles, despite their outward size, are notoriously GOOD for tall people. Their bell shape gives them a lot of head room, and they have leg room. Jeeps, on the other hand, are noted for NOT having a lot of leg room. The budget concerns sound more likely.

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[–] vranger (444) 3 years ago

Riiiiight. I'm 5'11", and I was NEVER comfortable in a Beetle.

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[–] qwertyKeys 12 years ago

(I know you posted this a long time ago, but I wanted to reply anyways)

I think Harry's book style humor would've come out more if he was faced with more authority figures on the show.

They did have the lab under the rug as a hidden trap door. Namely in the episode 'storm front'. The episode is suppose to be a tv epi version of the first book.

I don't know how long it's been since you read Storm Front, but the Toad-headed demon does penetrate his protection. It was also penetrated by Nightmare in the 3rd book. The book explains that Harry's natural house protection (whatever you want to call it) is compromised by his lack of family (not much of a house in other words).

I thought the protection around one's home was very interesting to read about in the Peril book too. It didn't really seem to help though did it? :D

In the TV show the creatures have to be invited in to pass uncontested as well.

As far as the blasting rod is concerned, he uses a hockey stick as a blasting rod believe it or not. I thought it made for an interesting blasting rod.

If you didn't like episodes 3 or 4, you won't like the series (to be honest). They made big changes like turning the Red Court into good guys (Bianca mostly).

I also hated the fact that in the show they made magic really really hush hush subject to those who didn't practice the art. wtf right? One of the best parts about the book is he doesn't hide the fact that he practices magic. That's just terrible.

I missed the duster :(

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[–] NetflixZZZZ 12 years ago

I read one of the books long time ago, and didn't care for it much. But I love the TV series and fell in love with the Harry character. I'm going to read all the books now that I have that handsome face in my head.

I thought Paul Blackthorne was pretty close to the book description according to this article: http://arsarcanum.morethanmortal.com/wiki/index.php?title=Harry_Dresden

I don't know how one defines "tall and lanky" but Paul is damn tall & thin! Somebody else on this board earlier mentioned Hugh Jackman being more physically fitting, but I think Jackman needs to loose some muscle mass and grow a couple inches to match Paul's physique.

And "quiet & brooding"? "Zero personality"?? Are we even talking about the same character on TV? My impression of the Harry played by Paul is totally warm-hearted, quick-witted, impulsive and incredibly brave. These personalities, plus a heavy does of charm was shining through after mere 2 episodes.

Also, the change to carry a hockey stick and dress in crumpled old windbreakers is brilliant! Private detective needs anonymity not attention. Come on, who walks around downtown Chicago in bright daylight of 21 century dressed in a long comic style leather trench coat holding a big-ass broom stick... You might just hold out the Stetson hat for loose changes!

~~~I'm into the bad, mad & dangerous
because I'm good, sane & harmless~~~

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] wolfpup3 10 years ago

Wow, yeah, I agree with everything you said.

I haven't read the books yet, and it wouldn't surprise me if they're much different, or even much better, but that doesn't make the show bad.

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[–] AdmrlLocke 8 years ago

Well I guess he got me pegged. I turned 55 last November, and it's "Trekkie' not "Trekie," plus it's actually "Trekker." 

I enjoyed the show and it's what led me to the books. Sure, the books are vastly better than the series, but there's only so much you can do on a shoestring budget with bean counters who don't even like science fiction or fantasy looking over your shoulder. Even though the books are vastly better, I got the show on DVD and watch it every now and again after I've just reread all the books, short stories and graphic novels, and can't wait for the next one to come out. Even though Morgan's supposed to be an old white man, I still see Conrad Coates when I read the books. The show had its weaknesses to be sure, but it was still good. I'd be tempted to say that the OP's post was the worst post ever made, but hey, this is the internet. 

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[–] iambroom 12 years ago

Is there where I go to complain that the TV or movie adaptation of the book wasn't exactly the way I imagined it in my head, with my favorite actors cast in the roles, even when the author himself approved of those changes, because I'm a fanboy who thinks the real world revolves around my imagination?

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[–] retrogames 12 years ago

Never even heard of the books (until halfway through the 12 episodes on Netflix), and now I've finished watching them I thought it was a decent well made series.
Personally I would have liked to have seen a lot more, but like so many decent US TV series before it sadly it's not going to happen.
Oh well, it's either back to the cheap to make reality TV, greatest supermodel, nobody's got talent type type rubbish on TV (or start another cut short in it's prime TV series on Netflix).

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[–] vranger (444) 3 years ago

LOL, good one broom. :-)

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[–] waterloggedfrog 12 years ago

Magic being mroe hush hush just makes more sense. That's one of my biggest problems with the books; everyone is afraid to look him in the eye yet no one believes in magic/wizards? And he's hurling magic left and right in most books and still no one believes in magic/wizards? Just silly. Also his leather duster, cowboy hat and boots are silly-looking. If they had him wear them on the TV show people would make fun of it.

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[–] lexyladyjax 11 years ago

Once I had a leather duster. It was heavy and not warm at all. Still, I looked damn good in it.

To the original poster, taken from the FAQs here:

What level of involvement does Jim Butcher have in the show?

From the horse's mouth, during pre-production of the series:

"I'm consulting, but it's informal and largely based on the fact that Robert is a decent and friendly guy. He's sent me scripts, a copy of the series bible, and I've given him feedback and seen changes made based upon it, which was (I thought) undeniably gentlemanly (and intelligent, of course) of him.

"I like what I've seen.

"That said, Robert isn't working in a vaccuum, and if I don't get absolutely everything I want in the show, neither does he. The differences, however, are generally minor and cosmetic. Some of them are just smart, and if I'd known more about writing when I was putting the books together, I probably would have used them. That's the advantage he has approaching this as a savvy screenwriter and producer, whereas I was an unpublished wannabe.

"I like where the show is (currently) going, and I've been called by the studio to see if I'd be willing to work with the writers a little more. I am (provided I don't get too much more work pressure, ugh). We'll see if I actually go out and talk with them, read scripts, what have you. I'd love to help. I'll also understand if they don't want the novelist-creator cramping professional scriptwriters' styles and making their jobs harder.

"It's out of my control, although arguably I'm not utterly unable to influence matters, and I can handle that. I'd love to help it be the best show it can, and I'll be happy to shoot my mouth off if someone wants my opinion. But then, who isn't.

"Hell, if they wanted me to, I'd be happy to write (or help write) a script. That would probably be a case of some poor intern carrying my weight, but what's life for if not to try new things!"

(taken from Jim Butcher's board on his website)

Well, now. If the author, Mr Butcher, was happy with the series, who are we to complain? Such hubris to find fault where Mr Butcher was pleased with the series.

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[–] jaredouimette1 11 years ago

What if Mr. Butcher wrote *beep* books? Which he did, and does. The TV show is absolute garbage. "Oooh, wizard detective, how novel!" And that is the plot. Paul sucks in his role as Harry Dresden. They decided Morgan, an old white man, needed to be a young black man. For equality, or something. And then, instead of making the show a serial noir, they made it a procedural. Can you hear the slurping of this show as it sucks away at the cock of mediocrity?

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[–] robble-1 11 years ago

Actually Harry doesn't wear hats in the book. That's one of the running gags on the book covers. He's always pictured in a hat but he's quoted as saying he doesn't like them.

There's something here that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick.-The Doctor

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[–] CharWoman 11 years ago

I watched the one season of this show on Netflix before I tried the books out. Before reading, I thought the show was pretty good (not great, but pretty good) for a low-budget project and liked Paul Blackthorne as Dresden, as well as the actors playing Murphy and Bob. I like it less after reading the books, mainly because I believe a show should pay a certain degree of respect to the source material, and the show departed too dramatically in this case. Some changes I didn't mind at all even after reading, like having Dresden's office and home in the same place and out of the basement, making him a little bit more relatable, and making Bob into a fuller presence. Dialing back the amount and severity of Dresden's constant ass-kickings and dire situations made it more watchable, too. In reading the books (which I do like--I'm on #5 now) I feel like they are a diamond in the rough, and could have really been not only captured but enhanced by a TV project, but this one strayed too far and didn't make good enough use of the already interesting stories in the books. I'm especially unhappy about the changes to his relationship with Bianca and the vampire plots generally.

I'm in my mid 40s, but I suspect that makes me old enough to be irrelevant in your opinion. Then again maybe what we like about the Dresden Files is just very different. I admit if I'd seen the show after watching the books, I probably would have liked it less.

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[–] Morbius_Fitzgerald 11 years ago

I take it you've never seen reality TV. I haven't seen this show yet but it can't be worse than that...can it?

"If you don't like your ideas, stop having them!"

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[–] I_Guard_Tanelorn 11 years ago

I'm just checking the show out and it's horrible in every way. Writing, acting, directing, lighting, camera, editing, special effects, you name it. It's cheesy in every way possible. Was this show made by a bunch of college interns? It's worse than the worst episode of Charmed.

"I said no camels, that's five camels, can't you count?"

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[–] OldSchoolRPGs 9 years ago

You should probably read the books then, because they are pretty cheesy themselves.