ash vs rekha


i don't think ash can touch rekha in this film...does any one else think that?

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[deleted]

old is gold dude

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agree she cant touch rekha but atleast we can expect an convincing job from her. :)

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to act in period films one needs ,and as responsibily, to be totally blended in that era. This would include language, accent, ensemble and the environment. i saw a few pictures of aishwarya where she is shown wearing a peacock blue cap. one big blunder. why did the director have to go to this level to make umrao jan ada wear something that was never a part of the culture those days and especially in that era.
then again the introduction of the film has aishwarya saying something in the background which has the word "cheekh" in it. the best aishwarya could manage was "cheek-h". while it should be pronounced as munich and zurich. khhhhhhhhh. and then we have sunil shetty actign as either faiz Ali dakait or Gauhar mirza.I can only feel amused to imagine Sunil who has a heavily non-urdu accent to be playing that role.
i think the director should have known better.
Rekha was enormously succeful in her speech and accent. Shaukat Azmi was excellent , so was Dina Patak ( i guess not from UP, but still at her best), lets see how shabana Azmi perfects the role. the only person going in without any suspicions or doubts.

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cant u wait for the film to be released and then u can pass those valuabble comments :)

and as far as wearing topi in blue dress even i was little taken back but j p dutta has shown pics from that era where the courtesans used such caps...anyways he also said he is making an mainstream movie...so no need to owrry much about astheatics..such mnovies are only for entertainment..and not for IIM studies

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[deleted]

"old is gold" dude? well just your great grand mother is old, doesn't mean she's made of gold...DUDE!
Honestly grow up>!!!

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what ?

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means i preferred rekha's umrao jaan.

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Ash is an awesome dancer!! I think she will do better than Rekha in the movie.

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i soo agree!! have u seen any of her latest films. i think its disgraceful 4 a woman her age!!!

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I haven't seen any of her latest films but I think Rekha one of the queens of Bollywood and although I'm looking forward to the movie, and Aishwaryia Rai looks the part but that's about the limit of her capabilities. I don't think she'll do as well.
There again, I could be proved wrong.

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I saw the movie yesterday, and I must say that original is original. The movie has been stretched too much and choreography needs lot of improvement. Javed Akhtar's lyrics may have a poetic style but the flow and music is far from convincing. And the melancholic look that Aish intends to project through out the movie is pathetic. Rekha is far far superior.

Prakash F Madhwani

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Thanks - that was interesting feedback Professor, though a little extreme for an educated man. Remember, one man's meat is another man's poison.

Temperance is a good Indian virtue appropos loquaciousness :)

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TOO INTELLIGENT, go tell jassi042002's great grandmother...

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Aish in no way can beat Rekha...the only one who couldve brought back that eloquence that Rekha had in the original and done justice to the role even if the film still flopped would have been Madhuri Dixit for me, Madhuri is if not as gud as Rekha but almost is as gud as Rekha. Aish doesnt even come close to Rekha at all!

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Two different adaptations. Not a race/competition. Of course, Rekha was wonderful in the 1978 version. And in all fairness, the same applies to Aishwarya Rai in/as Umrao Jaan, 2006. Aish is outstanding, and that's an indisputable fact. Shabana Azmi is also great. That said, the new version is about 30 minutes too long. (discuss the director/editor, leave the actors alone)

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not comparing, but i will watch old umrao jaan, anyday, again. rekha was splendid..not much crying and you could connect to old umrao jaan so easily. true second half looked a bit rushed but it delivered its message well. overall old one rocks .

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I saw Umrao Jaan and I though Ash did a great job. The only two complaints are her accent- at times, she would pronounce some words wrong- like khabar as kabar and khud as kud. That annoyed me because I speak Urdu. And then the last mujra dance outfit, although beautiful, the cap was too much. The director should've payed more attention to these things.

But she acted wonderfully- I don't understand why people say she can't act. People, see some of her recent movies with an open mind. She can definitely act! I reccommend Raincoat and Chokker Bali.

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"I though Ash did a great job"

now theres the difference.. your thought means your opinion and means just your opinion. good if others agree with you, good if they dont.

"I don't understand why people say she can't act"

similarly like some dont undersrtand, whats so good about her acting?

"People, see some of her recent movies with an open mind"

again, what do you mean by open mind ? nobody sees her movies thinking that "just because ash is acting in this one, i should dislike it" well hopefully.


didnt like raincoat, but if you say chokher bali is good, i wil try to watch it.

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I think a good actor is the one who takes extra efforts to b the character.

U urself have said it,her accent is not proper!
Thats it!
So how did she act great dear?

If she were a serious n sincere actor,she wud have taken diction classes for urdu til the time she herself became fluent in chaste urdu.

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And by the time Ash finished taking her diction lessons in Urdu and perfected it, the movie might as well be shelved off (this is just an exaggeration).
The point is sometimes, there is little time to perfect every aspect of a movie (circumstances, situtaions, financial aspects, everything). In anycase, its just 2 words right, khud and sumthin' else, that will phase off (when you are watching the whole scene, the audience will get what Ash is trying to say with the Urdu words)!
And Ash as a GOOD ACTOR has tried to B and portray the character (from the novel, so the real life aspects of the character is obviously imaginative and inspired) with excellent results and is commendable.
IMO - Ash's performance is brilliant in this movie!!!

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Okay i saw the movie last night and i have to say she did an outstanding performance and buchun(sp)

the movie overall is amazing
the songs the clothes the setting...is perfect.

honestly in my opinion she dose a better job in old fashion set films such as devdas and Umrao Jaan shes kinda bleeh in modern films such as in her up coming film Dhoom 2

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I'm not saying her performance wasn't awesome- I thought she was amazing and really convinced me she was Umrao Jaan. I just think the actors (not just Ash) should have spent more time trying to speak like Mughals. Especially Sunil Shetty, now that dude didn't even TRY!

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OH man- HOW I agree... i have been putting off goign to see it- because I have heard all my urdu speaking friends say that her terrible accent and lazy pronunciation pissed them off too much to enjoy the movie- which incidentally wasnt even very good. But i will go - just so i can make a credible review. I am a fan of the understated OLD Umrao. the pathos just wrings my heart every time!
Secondly- JUST 2 words are TWO WORDS TOO many- i will be makign a list when i go to see it! Same problem with the lazy lazy but oh-so-charming acting of Preiti Zinta and Rani Mukherjee in Veer Zara- popular, and a superhit- but only in India- where somehow people assume that Pakistan still exists in the Pakeezah era. Prieti's laziness is her pathetic portrayal of a pregnant woman in my otherwise fave movie Salaam Namaste- take a figure out of Tabu's hat dearie- who totally changed her body language in Chandni Bar. That is what "actors" do- they ACT- as in they acquire the accent (check out the Bostonian accents in The Departed- or ANY movie by Meryl Streep, Shabana Azmi, or any Aussie or Brit actor in a Hollywood flick) and they acquire the body language. But in Bollywood- I guess you just need to dance and look good.

Oh- by the way.... to the person who said the movie woudl have to be shelved if Ash took classes- well- kindly look at movies up to the early 80's - Dharmendra, Rekha, Amitabh, Jaya, YOU NAME IT- they all spoke a differnet Hindustani- one that coudl absorb sounds like the "KH", the "Gh". I have been watchign all the old movies again to see why I am suddenly noticing this awful accent everywhere on Indian Tv and Film. However, there have been language studies done where the change in the colloquial Hindi can be directly linked to the highly political de-persianization of Hindi, so that the new generation of actors- like ASh- are bereft of their own traditions..... One forgets that Urdu is NOT an alien language- but grew out of the soil of India which was the land of its birth.

(Oh I shudder to think- Mirza Ghalib must be turning in his grave every time HIS OWN COUNTRYMEN refer to him as Mirza Gaalib (not Ghalib). Yuck.

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well lets see if shabana azmi was required to speak sanskrit ? or hindi dialects which were in vogue 200 yrs back? or in a more contemporary sense speak english in british or american accent?
i agree bashing a film merely because of accent is not fair. if thats the case we would still have romeo juliet in shakespere's era english. and how much of it would normal public understand is any body's guess." biraj me dhoom machao raam darshan do shankar mahadev" is in old umrao jaan . if sangeet isnt acceptable then this whole classical song was out of place too.

the film should be understandable to normal public and reach out to it. the film aims at general public not scholars.most people cant notice the accent coz urdu is not what they speak.
any how i too feel that older version was far better but i never noticed any difference in accents. it was the overall performance of cast,the songs which are just peerless,the faster pace, the sets and the fabulously convincing acting by rekha. and her timeless beauty which seemes to be immortally engraved in the time frame of pre independence era lukhnow. it is difficult to imagine anyone else in that role.
i think by itself the new umrao jaan cud well have been a classic itself but it is bound to be compared and that is to its disadvantage.

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enigmatic:

don't really know what your trying to understand, I'm just giving my critique. By open mind I mean without any reservations about her acting.

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i get it. but all i meant was, i doubt people goto see her movies with predetermined minds i.e when you goto watch a movie, you just want to be entertained at most, you prefer utilization of three hrs. by the end, when you feel, what a waste of time! and you had rather not seen it in the first place, thats when people say, they dislike the movie. because as i said before, people dont have anything against her, as most of you here think, else people would have completely stopped going to her shows. they do see her movies, do appreciate her,"when" they feel she needs to be. why is it that her beauty gets appreciated all the time? dont you think, people should not even call her beautiful, if they had anything against her?

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"zarmaine-machapeechu" - - "BEREFT of their old TRADITIONS"...ha..well seriously that is some B.S. Just because you fail to vocally pronouce syllables properly in a movie does not make you lose your traditions...i think YOU are way ahead of yourself in drawing conlusions. Well GOOD for you that you have been watching all the old movies to analyze the accent-distortion situation here in the recent movies. I think not the Two words too many...but your analysis is 2 words too many!!!
I'm sure all the actors, and I say all the actors tried their best to get their diction right in Umrao Jaan. It's not that they were born speaking URDU, Urdu is a beautiful language and its not very easy to pick it up and converse fluently, there are always some drawbacks when you are not a native speaker of a particulat language and almost all the actors did agree that it was not easy trying get the Urdu right. That does not mean we will just blast the movie and not watch it!!! Well in anycase that your opinion.

Again back to my Point: Ash was Terrific in the movie and just as the article said in the NY Times, her screen presence as an actress is undeniable!!!

http://movies2.nytimes.com/2006/11/04/movies/04umra.html

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"But in Bollywood- I guess you just need to dance and look good."

yeah maybe thats the case in some movies, but please do your research not only in the accent department but also what went into the production of the movie, in Umrao Jaan, they did have learned Urdu scholars helping with the cast and experienced Urdu speaker to help the actors, it wasn't just like oh who cares about the Urdu accent; they are aware of publics sentiments (in regards to Umrao Jaan) and the movie team surely tried their best to speak Urdu as best as they could!!!

"Oh- by the way.... to the person who said the movie would have to be shelved if Ash took classes "
That was me who said that - and if you missed the last part of my sentence...it read that - just an exaggeration....and i'm sorry dude but I lost you in the part where you explained with Dharmendra and Rekha and with all the "Kh" and the "Gh"....things.
I mean I have watched their movies too (Dharam n Rekha n jaya n shashi kapoor, meena kumari etc)....and as you may realize I am in touch with current bollywood flicks....but heck I don't see...why did this actor did not do the GH or the Kh in their Pronunciations. Seriously give the actors a break...that is if you even consider them as actors because apparently bollywood films don't measure upto your Standard and are low standard or sumthin??? hmph
per you - "But in Bollywood- I guess you just need to dance and look good."

Well...again back to the point and the whole point of this Thread - I really liked Ash in the movie and IMO I think Ash was really terrific, must be the new modern feel to the movie, I found the new Umrao Jaan much better!!!

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[deleted]

I totally and utterly agree with you that Ash has not been able to match Rekha in this movie. I am an Ash fan and was expecting a wonderful movie and more so, the Mujrah as I am a great admirer of Ash's dancing skills.

I watched the movie a few days ago and am horror-struck by the quality of the Mujrah dances in the movie. Should we blame the choreographer or the dancer - Ash ?

When we got back home, my wife insisted that we play a DVD containing songs from the old Umrao Jaan. Comparing it, we discovered that we were not wrong.

Mujrah places a lot on Lachak, Machak and Ada/ Nakhra. If you watch Madhuri Dixit in the song "Yeh kis ne haraah rang daala", you will notice the Ada/ Nakhraa, the stabbing of the ground with the fist, the dropping back of the head, the twirl of the eyes, the flickering of the eyes, the dismissal of a thought with flapping of the hand; the list goes on.

In old Umrao Jaan, Rekha displayed similar Ada which is completely absent in the new Umrao Jaan.

As for Lachak, if you view the smart body twirls with rhythm of the tabla music of Madhuri in "Yeh kis ne haraah rang daala" you will see the Lachak. Rekha did a similar (though less Lachakful) Mujrah in the old Umrao Jaan.

The scene of the Mujrah in Faizabad was something I waited for desperately. It falls way short of the "Yeh kya jagah hai doston" in the old Umrao Jaan and the new Umrao Jaan's fate was sealed.

Ash, oh meri Ash, "Yeh too ney kya kar daala ?"

By Mujrah-Aashiq
Mujrah DVDs are my drinking partners when I travel overseas which is a lot)

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Hmmm....dont know what to say about the Mujrah performances by Ash, that depends on individuals. Some find that Ash was excellent whereas some may not find her mujrah performance upto par.
I believe that Ash is a great performer and a dancer, so I found her performance in Umrao Jaan superb. (even the Mujras, but thats just IMO)!!!

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Indeed. Rekha in Umrao Jaan 1981 and Madhuri Dixit in Devdas 2002 danced traditional songs well, partly adopted from Mughale-E-Azam,which Madhu Bala starred. The lastest Umrao Jaan is not as ravishing as the first two in dancing and songs. Neverteless, it updates art, customes, and some elements of so-called melodrama but the last one is the biggest problem to make this movie flop. It is not about Ash and Abhishek's acting skill, I think.

If people accept Devdas 2002, a different-from-Bengali adaptatoin of Kolkata, why not appreciating Umrao Jaan 2006, who was shot in Jaipur, is trying to turn out Lucknow,old centre of Urdu culture?

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Mujrah-ashiq... you hit the nail on the head.... i wonder if others also found the 'little extra" missing from the dances... in fact, as far as i was concerned, the dances lacked a lot... ( i mean c'mon, we are talking Umrao Jaan here)......

your comments on the lachak/ada/nakhra sound like they come from a real expert, but even without knowing too much about it, it was clear that although Aish had great potential for a powerhouse dancing performance, she fell short because of the lack of a good choreographer ....

All-in-all, a movie which could have been 10times better keeping the same cast and crew, but just giving more thought to the dance and audience interest (read- lessening the emphasis on the tears coming out at certain places) in mind.

Not to mention - Mr. Shetty was certainly a surprise!!.. he didnt belong in the movie.. a brave yet wrong decision by Dutta....

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I have to agree completely. To be honest, I'm not a big Ashwariya Rai fan--but I do think she's an amazing dancer. I think that she made out better in the acting department than I gave her credit for before watching the film (though mind you, still not the biggest fan of her acting)...I don't think this film lived up to the first one. That one was far more subtle, far more complex and the ironies in the film hit you time and again. This version wasn't bad, the emotions were still there and the cinematography was pretty good. However, having said that Ashwariya Rai did a better job in the acting department than I expected, I think the dancing was extremely disappointing. Probably, this is something we can attribute to the choreographer though--the subtlety was missing, the grace was there, but the magic wasn't. Madhuri in Devdas was def missed while watching Ashwariya's take on the mujrah in this film.

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unfair to compare .... rekha was a different league... Aish too, gives it a little credence from her performance...

would have been easy to look at it, if it was the same maker ... here, Dutta went for his own look... to me, it was quite alright (unlike a host of others who completely despise this one)

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[deleted]

oh come on. aish was great. i watched the movie in hindi so i dont know what this urdu problem is. but other then that she was geeat her facial expressions, eyes, she delivered her dalogues gret. you can see that she was really into her charcter and tried hard. but nomatter how hard she tries no one ever apreciates it.

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Acting wise and the look that rekha can give, ash can't even touch it! Bollywood in general has been a complete and outrageous disappointment for the last 20 + years or so. Ladies and genteleman, this isn't an opinion! Do your reasearch and its a fact! Look at actors and actresse like Dilip, Pardip, Raj Kuma, and Kapoor, Madhubala, nargis, meena kumari then look at todays; ash, salman khan, saif ali khan...etc. These people are more or less there because of nepotism! Talent did not bring them there. I mean the only reason that feminine Hrithik Roshan is muscular is because he has a rich dad to buy him a gym! You know who Rakesh Roshan is? Remember singers and music directors like Mana Dey and Rafi Saab and C Ram Chander and Nushad and look at todays; Udit Narayan and Anuradha padwal. Movies are being cranked out without and good qulity actors and actresses these days. The only thing provided is a big budget but the talent is gone and dead. Its really sad whats happened to Indian cinema and if as if things couldn't get worse, they remake old movies with these crappy new actors who can't even fit in the toilet stool of the greats of yesterday. Why do people promote these movies? The only reason Bollywood continues to make crap is because illiterate people or people who don't know what true dialogue, or music is support it! I'm not even some old coot saying these things. Im in my early 20's and even I can see the world of difference between the fidelity in voice quality between Kumar Sanu or whoever is around now vs Kishore Kumar. Being and Indian myself, I rarely watch Bollywood movies. A few here and there do actually turn out to be good I admit, VERY FEW, like Baghban or something and even that was all about how stupid todays young people are and Amitabh was in it!

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i thought ash did good acting in the movie

~ASH N VIDYA ROCK~

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