Capt. Jack plot hole? - Torchwood (2006) Discussion

[–] StreetsAhead 12 years ago

He was made a fixed point after being born. Thanks to Rose not knowing how to use the time vortex energy properly, when she brought him back she accidently made it so that he would never die from that point onwards. He's only been around a couple thousand years so far, give or take a few centuries.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

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[–] Dreammaker182 12 years ago

when was this and was it on a BBC series?

Dreammaker182

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[–] missfussybritches 12 years ago

That all happened in Doctor Who.

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[–] StreetsAhead 12 years ago

when was this and was it on a BBC series?

It was the first series of the new Doctor Who in 2005. Jack was born some time in the 51st century, he joined up with the Time Agency before going rogue and started conning other time travelers during big historical events. He tried to con the Doctor and Rose during WW2, but it went wrong and they had to save him, and they started travelling together.
A while later the three of them had to fight the Daleks, the Doctor sent Rose home in the TARDIS so she'd be safe, while he and Jack stayed to fight. Rose decided she had to go back, and managed to pry open the TARDIS console, exposing her to the heart of the TARDIS, which gave her control over time and space. She wiped out the Dalek fleet and brought Jack, who'd been exterminated by that point, back to life. As i said before she didn't have full control over it, when she brought him back it was for good.

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

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[–] lucy-loo1 12 years ago

There's always going to be plot holes with Jack's character, especially regarding time travel. If Jack was initially born in the 51st century, it means that when Gwen and Co were initially born in the 20th century, they never met Jack and were therefore leading an alternate life away from Torchwood.

And I wasn't impressed with the idea of Angelo spying on Jack for decades before MD took place, using 'photographs' that were either obviously staged (Jack in the 70's) or actually puplicity shots from real life - like the first photo Esther sees of Jack in episode 1, that was clearly a publicity photo from Jack's appearance in Doctor Who.

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[–] koppmeier_kevin 12 years ago

"There's always going to be plot holes with Jack's character, especially regarding time travel. If Jack was initially born in the 51st century, it means that when Gwen and Co were initially born in the 20th century, they never met Jack and were therefore leading an alternate life away from Torchwood."

Not really. After he was brought back to life by Rose and left behind, he used his time vortex manipulator to go back in time. He meant to go back to the early 21st century to meet up with The Doctor but ended up in the early 20th century. He was on earth before the rest of the team were born so the there is no alternate reality.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Sci-Yi-YI 10 years ago

I always think about the episode Boom Town where there could be three Jack's in the same small area.
When the The Doctor, Rose and Jack are parked right above Torchwood, Jack is above ground, possibly underground in Torchwood and frozen in the vault.

RAWR!

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[–] StreetsAhead 7 years ago

Ah, memories

Why was McCoy afraid of McGann? Because McGann Hurt Eccleston!

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[–] apostasia 7 years ago

Ah, memories

I guess it wouldn't really be Torchwood if we didn't go out talking about Jack's hole.

Just a painted face on a trip down suicide row

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[–] danieljackson7 12 years ago

"when was this and was it on a BBC series?" how do you mean? It is all by the BBC. Are you one of "those" that started at the end and are complaining for not knowing everything?

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[–] Dreammaker182 12 years ago

Yes I mean when did it happen as in what season. I did start with Miracle Day but I have watched the first few episodes and some from the middle of the first season... I am not complaining about not knowing everything... It's just that the show doesn't back track much. It's like Dr. Who. You have to watch the first episodes of any Doctor's season to really understand the dynamics and characters at play. Miracle Day was actually co-produced by Starz which is an AMERICAN network. I am in the US and the only way that I can watch Dr. Who and Torchwood is through BBC America...

Dreammaker182

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[–] SlackerGirl121 12 years ago

Netflix. Doctor Who and Torchwood are available in entirety (at what's played in the states) on Netflix. So saddle up to the computer start with the Ninth Doctor and have fun.

Sweetie, go get mommy's bazooka.

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[–] Dreammaker182 12 years ago

Yeah I managed to see the episodes of Torchwood and Dr. Who that link the two together. Things make a lot more sense now...

Dreammaker182

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[–] lucy-loo1 12 years ago

Don't be rude danieljackson7, not all Torchwood viewers have seen Doctor Who, especially if they live in the US.

And they shouldn't have to watch Doctor Who in order to follow Torchwood, one is a family show and the other is a more adult show that was designed to stand on its own two feet.

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[–] danieljackson7 12 years ago

It is still a spinoff.

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Magadan 12 years ago

Jack is born in the 51st century and joins the "Time Agency", recieving a vortex manipulator that allows him to travel in time.

Jack goes rogue, turns into a con man and meets the Doctor and Rose. They have wacky adventures in time and space.

In the year 100,000 (i think - too lazy to look it up) they fight a battle with evil creatures called the Daleks, and Jack is killed.

Rose, due to some questionable Duex Ex Machina on the part of the writers gains control over time and space, and brings Jack back from the dead. Unfortunately, it's forever, establishing him as a "fixed point" in time, ergo he never ages or dies. At least not for long.

The Doctor and Rose abandon Jack, who tries to use his vortex manipulator to get back to earth but ends up in the wrong time, in Cardiff, in the later half of the 19th century. His vortex manipulator is burnt out, and he is stranded, having to wait for a version of the Doctor that co-incideds with his own time-stream. So he hangs around "primitive" earth, waiting, and eventually joins Torchwood.

Then he gets sent back in time to around 100 AD and buried in the ground by his evil brother and has to wait 2,000 years to be dug up...but that's another story.

So the Jack we see in miracle day is actually several thousand years old, and most of them were spent in the ground.

I'm 50% Irish, the other half is French. I like to get drunk and surrender.

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[–] abs_is_back 12 years ago

Sadly, I am so much of a geek that I don't have to look it up - Jack was killed by a Dalek in the year 200,100 AD. And was buried beneath what would become Cardiff in 27 AD. Yes, I know, I need a life.

When the Doctor calls Jack a "fixed point" what he is saying is that nothing can change the fact of his immortality. It's not necessarily that he must remain in the timeline he's in anymore than he has to remain in the place he's in, but the fact that he can't stay dead (it's really bad dialogue on Jack's part for him to say he "can't die" - he's died countless times), he always comes back. I've always thought the key phrase there was when the Doctor said "Rose brought you back, but she couldn't control it, so she brought you back forever." The force that Rose used to bring Jack back from the dead keeps on bringing him back from the dead, and will continue doing so, forever and ever amen.

Which is why I figured he would survive giving his blood to the Blessing.

At the time of Miracle Day, Jack is at least 2160 years old, give or take his time as a Time Agent, which depends on whether or not you think a period of time caught and repeated in a Time Loop counts more than once.

Confused yet? Welcome to Torchwood. But you don't have to memorize Jack's timeline to enjoy the show.

BTW, for those who have seen all of Miracle Day, In the TW books, Owen had done many experiments on Jack's blood and tissue samples, with Jack's permission, to try to find out what made him immortal. He never found out. But what he did find was that whatever he did to manipulate Jack's blood or alter it, it would just simply revert to its original state... while Owen watched. Read Twilight Streets by Gary Russell for more details.

Favorite scene from Miracle Day: Jack and Gwen's conversation in the car on the way to CA. What's yours?

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[–] sbg4evr 12 years ago

Jack did die in 5,000,000,053. He sacrificed himself to save New New York. He is the face of Boe. He told the Doctor that You Are Not Alone.

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[–] abs_is_back 11 years ago

Jack as the Face of Boe is not something that RTD will officially confirm or deny, so it's not canon.

"There was that moment where you revealed that Jack would eventually live so long that he'd become the Face of Boe. Was this something you planned all along with the character?

"It wasn't exactly planned. I did spend a long time thinking about Jack's immortality, and one day it occurred to me there was another immortal character on the show. It made me laugh. To be honest, on the screen, it's couched in terms that are not absolute gospel. There are these spin-off books and comic books, and every now and then I'll see a script for one where they say definitively that he's the Face of Boe, and I always stop those from being printed. I have my own personal theories, but the moment it became very true or very false, the joke dies."

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/06/russell_t_davies_talks_doctor.html

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[–] Lokisgodhi 11 years ago

Yes it is canon. Jack is the Face of Boe. It became canon when it appeared on the show. Water is wet. Fire is hot. If you put something 'on air' it's fȗcking canon. That's the rules about how something becomes canon. Davies can suck it. He should have thought about the ramifications before he put it on air.

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[–] tenement-funster 11 years ago

No, it's not canon. At no point was it stated that Jack is the Face of Boe. He merely said that that was his nickname. It's already established that Boe is very famous, and Jack comes from Boeshane. It's a perfectly understandable nickname, particularly for a good-looking guy. You might just as well say that it's 'canon' that New York City will one day literally become a big apple. And I hope that William "The Refrigerator" Perry (80s football player) has made plans for his future as a household appliance.

If you want to believe it, that's fine, but it's by no means canon. Especially since RTD has explictly stated otherwise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.46664.com/

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[–] silovik812 10 years ago

As I recall, Jack being called "The Face of Boe" was the result of winning some kind of "cute kid" contest, wasn't it? In that case there would be many other people who had that title. Any one of them might have evolved into the head-in-a-jar.

For my part, I do think that after millions of years, the loveable Captain Jack becomes the contemplative head-in-a-jar, not the least reason being that he's probably the only Face of Boe who is a fixed point in time. Still, I also agree that although it's strongly hinted at in the series, we don't know this for certain. "Word Of God" (explicit statements by the people who wrote the darn thing in the first place) has already been quoted on this thread, and that should settle it. As it stands, the official fatwa is that Jack might be the head-in-the-jar Face of Boe. Everything beyond that is just a lot of wild guessing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Oh, well" said Zanoni, "to pour pure water in the muddy well does but disturb the mud !"

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[–] abs_is_back 11 years ago

Sorry, but the fans don't get to determine canon. The showrunners do.

"There are these spin-off books and comic books, and every now and then I'll see a script for one where they say definitively that he's the Face of Boe, and I always stop those from being printed."

What part of this is not understandable?

That Jack being called the Face of Boe means that he is the same Face of Boe that we see in a jar in the future is an assumption that the Doctor and Martha make, and even they aren't sure they believe it.

It would also contradict the events of "Gridlock." Jack has given his life energies to Abaddon and his blood to the Blessing and lived. So why would powering up the traffic systems of New Earth kill him stone cold dead without revival? Rose brought him back "forever," remember?

As far as "the rules" about something becoming cannon, I refer you to something a fan pointed out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62ut6xGQ8D8

The Doctor to Donna: "You're not important."
The Doctor to Kazran: "Nine hundred years of Time and Space and I never met anyone who wasn't important."

The rules are whatever the show makes the rules. Torchwood made all of the official BBC novels for Torchwood cannon. This does not hold true of all shows.

Bottom line: it was a joke.

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[–] mdfst13 10 years ago

So why would powering up the traffic systems of New Earth kill him stone cold dead without revival?

Not just powering up -- maintaining. He kept the system running for a long time (at least twelve years) before dying. Already very weak, the final boost killed him.

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[–] knight_sentinel 12 years ago

One day it will be revealed Jack is another MacLeod of the clan Macleod in the future.

Has Jack ever had his head chopped off, and come back to life in an episode? They always have him getting shot or hit by some energy weapon.

We're not drug dealers, we're herbalist.

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[–] VladAndTheImpalasLovesPompadour 12 years ago

Has Jack ever had his head chopped off, and come back to life in an episode? They always have him getting shot or hit by some energy weapon.

He was blown up into pieces in Children of Earth. From what I can remember, all the seperate body parts found their way back to each other, and his flesh (and whatever other parts didn't make it back I guess) re-grew. So I assume that's what would happen if his head got chopped off.

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[–] phantom_pixie 12 years ago

Jack became a fixed point after Rose exposed him to the heart of TARDIS and he came back to life.
The Doctor does not like this.

Thoe whole idea of Doctor Who and Torchwood is that time isn't a straight line. So you can go back and change things that happend before you were born.

Furthermore, Jack is not a fixed point as a human but as energy.
I don't like to mention spoilers but you can watch episode 03 and 13 of Doctor who season 3 too see what becomes of Jack over the centuries.

X ~We are the people our parents warned us about

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[–] FrenchCelt 12 years ago

The Doctor does not like this, and neither does the TARDIS. That's why they ended up 100 trillion years in the future when Jack clung to the outside of the TARDIS when they left Cardiff...the TARDIS was trying to get away from Jack.

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[–] Danomera 10 years ago

Time travel. She is a bitch.

Watch Doctor Who to fill in some of the blanks of Jack's history.

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