THESE ? ARE BLOWING MY MIND!

Q&A from previous threads...

In Crisis Core, when Zack is informed that Aerith has been writing him X number of letters. Did I hear this correctly, did I hear it had been four years since he departed to Nibelheim? I'm not sure the period of time was discussed in FFVII.

Aerith had written Zack 89 letters (88 of them were being held by Tseng for 'delivery' once Cissnei/Reno/Rude safely captured Zack/Cloud - sadly, that didn't happen); the last letter was delivered by that Angeal clone they'd confronted in the church. It had in fact been four years since he left w/Sephiroth on the mission to Nibelheim at the time she'd written the letter. Zack and Cloud were on the run for about a year after escaping the Shinra Mansion lab until Zack was killed outside Midgar. I don't recall any such references to the time period in the original game, except for Cloud's age. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he'd mentioned in the game that he left to join SOLDIER at age 14. We know from the game booklet that he's 21 during the game...so we could do the math and see that seven years had elapsed between his departure from Nibelheim to join SOLDIER and his reunion w/Tifa at the sector 5 train station in the original game. This timeline is completely supported in CC.

How long was it from the time Zack said goodbye to Aerith and the time he fought against Sephiroth?

He's 16 at the beginning of CC. In Angeal's death scene, he cries at the church and then there's a jump forward in time two years and we see him sitting in the Shinra building w/the longer hair and healed facial scar (now age 18). After making the flower cart and attempting to sell flowers with Aerith, he receives orders for the Nibelheim mission. He asks/tells Tseng to keep an eye on Aerith for him, then leaves. He must still be age 18 b/c the guide says he dies at age 23, so it had to have been less than a year between his departure on the mission and his enslavement by Hojo to be a lab rat (for four years + the one year on the run w/Cloud). <<This answers "how long were Zack and Cloud being experimented on?" They were lab rats for four years.

In FFVII, when you visit the Shinra mansion and read the text on the tubes in the basement, it is implied that there was communication between Cloud and Zack planning their excape. It would appear that CC totally ignored that. Can you explain it?

I don't think CC ignored it at all. Four years is a long time to be in a lab. They could've scratched those notes to each other shortly after being put in the tanks, before the experiments really got into full swing and Cloud became a Mako-poisoned catatonic.

Remember in FFVII, when Tifa explains she found Cloud at the train station, Cloud is all "drugged up" until he pops up and tells her he made it in Soldier first class.... when Zack and Cloud are fleeing in CC, Cloud is also disoriented. But at the moment when Zack is killed, Cloud crawls over and it seems like he's okay.

Almost an entire year elapses between their escape and Zack's death. That's plenty of time for Cloud to have at least started to recover. Then tragedy strikes again...he sees his friend gunned down and in a pool of blood...that may have been enough of an emotional "jolt" to accelerate his 'recovery'.

Was he able to compose himself after Zack was shot until he reached the train station in FFVII? Or did he fall back into a state of disorientation and end up there by chance?

I don't think he ended up there by chance. Zack's destination was always Aerith. Midgar, train station, Aerith. Zack constantly talked to Cloud about their plans (remember the truck ride in the game flashback) and even though Cloud was disoriented, I'm sure the information still resonated in his brain. In CC we see him purposely walking toward Midgar, dragging the Buster Sword with him. We also hear Zack's 'ghost' or whatever, reminding him "when you see Aerith, remember"...how ironic.

Now...what happens during the long walk to Midgar through the Wastelands? Here's my explanation of Cloud's memory loss and subsequent assumption of Zack's identity from a previous thread:

Tifa never forgot anything...she was just too (afraid? stupid?) to tell Cloud the truth about himself and his memory loss.

Cloud was a Sephiroth clone in that he received Jenova's cells and an 'ultra' showering of Mako as part of Hojo's 'Sephiroth Clone'/'Reunion Theory' project. It does not mean he was created in a lab. He was human and did grow up in Nibleheim w/Tifa as his next door neighbor. He joined the Shin-Ra army at 14 and sometime between then and his trip back to Nibleheim at age 16 w/Zack and Sephiroth he tried to join SOLDIER, but failed.

When Sephiroth went mad at Nibleheim, Cloud and Zack survived but were seriously wounded. Hojo (mad scientist that he is) decided to make them test subjects in the aforementioned Seph Clone/Reunion Theory experiment. After four years of being a lab rat, Zack breaks free and takes Cloud w/him (ultimate destination Midgar). After a year of being on the run, Zack gets killed just outside Midgar by Shin-Ra army grunts. Cloud continues on to Midgar where he eventually meets up w/Tifa, having forgotten almost everything that has taken place since he joined the Shin-Ra army at age 14.

This is how the Ultimania explains Cloud's memory loss:

Nomura says that due to Jenova's mimic ability, when Cloud meets Tifa in Midgar Jenova reads Tifa's memories of Cloud from before, merges those memories w/those of Zack and forms a new personality for Cloud based on that information. This is why Cloud still remembers Tifa and important details about his life from before and why he completely mimics all of Zack's traits/mannerisms as well. The UO says potential SOLDIERs are scouted by Turks based on their mental/physical strength to withstand the Jenova/Mako treatment. Cloud failed this 'test' once before, but Hojo didn't care about his test subjects' ability to withstand treatment, he just wanted to prove his Reunion Theory. Cloud's mind broke as a result (Mako poisoning) - Zack's did not b/c he'd already passed such treatment upon entering SOLDIER. Cloud's mind could only recover from the breakdown and function by suppressing the memories and forming a new persona of himself even though he was still confused at times. Which is why he keeps hearing voices (his subconscious trying to reveal the truth to him, and Sephiroth calling to him from the Northern Crater) and having flashbacks in the FF7 game.

His memory loss and subsequent assumption of Zack's identity blended w/his own is a kind of 'compromise' between his mind and the treatment he received to keep him semi-sane. Otherwise, he would have been just like the other numbered black-cloaked clones in the game walking around mumbling "Se...phi...roth...is ...call...ing....Re....un...ion..." and trying to make his way to the Northern Cave. Interestingly enough, Nomura also states that this is the REAL reason Cloud pursues Sephiroth throughout the game, proving that Hojo's Reunion Theory was correct (all cells of Jenova attempt to reunite). And that since Sephiroth was in control of Jenova, it was Sephiroth that was controlling Cloud and beckoning him to the Northern Cave all along. Cloud managed to convince himself that he was chasing Sephiroth "to settle" and to save the planet.

And from Scinfaxi

Sorry about the long wait time, my internet was down for a few days thanks to incompetence at the cable company. In any case, mason answered the questions exactly as I would, using information from the creators found in the Ultimanias.

I will add an important piece [she] left out though. There is a period of over a month between Zack's death and FF VII beginning. He probably did some odd jobs or merc work here and there between Zack dying and meeting Tifa, and he got the arm band and a new shoulder pauldron during this time as well. When Tifa saw Cloud he wasn't entirely catatonic, as we see when Cloud talks to Zack and shows some signs of recovery, but his whole, "I'm Cloud, SOLDIER 1st class" persona that we see in the beginning of FF VII wasn't created until he saw Tifa, and the Jenova cells took her memories and Cloud's memories of Zack and put them together to make "SOLDIER Cloud."

I can't answer the KH question, as I've not played the games yet, but from what I understand the Cloud wing is only in fan art representing that Sephiroth is his alter ego (Seph has a black wing on one side and Cloud has a white one on the opposite side - like Yin/Yang or Good/Evil). I'm sure someone else can/will be able to add further...

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