Why r 9/10 americans idiots?

We get 40 times the news you get commie!

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This Bloke is a hero right here, cheers to you afk20, thank you for putting a well written paragraph in that shut up the Aussies complaining and shut up the Americans being over patriotic.

Very well said sfk20.

After spending a lot of time looking at many posts about this and similar subjects this is the best written answer I have ever come across. Here is someone who has finally actually read some serious books about the subject and not got all their data from Wikipedia. Sir...I take my hat of to you.


Come to the Dark Side...we have cookies

ur so right bro dam americans

agree most americans do not know about russia (10 million German deaths, 30-40 million russian deaths, 500k american deaths) however the smugness of the aussies on this thread is obnoxious

it was brilliant for America to get involved in the war as late as we did, we let the world bloody itself before we committed totally. we got to reshape the economies of much of non soviet europe, and much of asia the way we saw fit. the russians used Sherman's and US trucks for a long time before they could manufacture their own. we eventually prevailed in the cold war by essentially out spending russia (gorbachev was the a hero also). our superpowerdom may seem like it is waning, but much of the world definently does NOT hate america, especially considering the love affair the world has with Barack Obama (WOOO WOOO).

whoever the super power is at any given point in time will always be envied and despised by the rest of the world, that is just the way things go. you aussies wont be so happy once China is controlling your current sphere of influence. insult us now but if you are so happy for our power to wane look forward to your future Chinese overlords

Bizarrely enough, I happened to look over a few of my older posts and noticed the recent activity on this thread. I'm tired of the whole argument between nationalities here and am much more concerned with people acknowledging facts more than opinions. As for the previous post, I am still incredulous that someone can actually believe Germany could have beaten Russia. First and foremost, alternate history is a ridiculous theory since there are far too many minor considerations to take into account that make history occur the way it does. If you change one event, there are a thousand other things you change with it. You can make up whatever alternate history want, but facts stay the same.

1. "The likelyhood increases that the UK loses the Battle of Britian and following Operation Sea Lion" In reality, Operation Sea Lion was never a serious campaign nor was the Luftwaffe properly equipped to win the Battle of Britain. Adolf Galland, one the Luftwaffe's highest ranking combat officer's and one of its premier aces, admitted Sea Lion was a joke and could never have been successfully undertaken. He also stated it would have been impossible for the Luftwaffe to destroy the RAF on its own since the Luftwaffe was designed as a short range force to accompany blitzkrieg type tactics. The Germans had never expected to conquer France so quickly and had no means by which to conduct a large scale amphibious invasion. In short, they were totally unprepared for a situation that they had never expected.

2. "Even if they do not, the UK and Commonwealth does not posses the military might to defeat Germany" In fact, even with lend-lease, Hitler and the German High Command felt they were safe in their decision to invade Russia since Britain no longer had the capabilities of serious resistance. The fact that during the lend lease period the Germans had managed to drive the British from Greece, Crete, and across North Africa with small amounts of troops would seem to prove that view.

3. "First, the Italian invasion of Greece stumbled, and delayed the Nazi invasion of the USSR. Without this delay it is highly likely that the USSR would not have survived 1942" Actually, the German High Command (OKW) had persuaded Hitler to put back the starting date before any involvement in Greece because the weather in Russia was too poor for offensive operations in the spring of 1941. The invasion and conquest of Greece and the Balkans made the Wehrmacht more headstrong as they moved into Russia and was actually somewhat beneficial. The failure of Barbarossa lies in the German's inability to take Moscow before the winter. This was caused when Hitler halted Army Group Center in early August as they were on the verge of reaching Moscow. Instead, Hitler took units away from Army Group Center and sent them south to join in the encirclement of Kiev, which, for whatever reason, he gave priority over Moscow. With that said, it is still largely uncertain whether Russia would have been defeated had they lost Moscow. During Barbarossa and throughout the war, the Germans were unable to destroy or harm any Soviet industrial capabilities. The Russians dismantled their factories in the west and moved them east far out of range of the Luftwaffe. Soviet production remained sufficient enough for survival during this entire period.

4. "Even with the expected winter counterattack, the Russians don't have enough material to defeat Germany (since their is no American aid)." The Russian counterattack in the winter of 1941 was made with the Soviet Siberian divisions which, up until then, had been held back to be used in the suspected Japanese invasion. There was no buildup of lend lease weapons, the Russians simply found a reserve of equipment and elite troops that they didn't think they could use. In addition, Russian tanks even at the start of the war were superior in armor and firepower to their German counterparts. In no way, shape, or form did lend-lease play any significant role in Soviet survival and victory. In fact, the Russians received very little, which is understandable considering the vast distances and short amount of time from June to December.

5. "With the UK neutralized, the entire might of the Germany military machine is directed against the USSR on Barbarossa's orginal start date" When Barbarossa started, 190 German divisions were committed to the operation. There were barely a handful of German divisions, most of which were "light" divisions, fighting in North Africa. I hardly think the addition of a few divisions were the key to German victory in 1941. The reality is that the entire military might of Germany actually was turned against Russia. North Africa was a sideshow that most Germans were unconcerned with, Russia was where the war was being fought. Had those 190 divisions been free to be used in Africa, it is undeniable that the British would have been quickly defeated. The notion that the United States would have attempted to invade a German-occupied England across the Atlantic or from anywhere else is ridiculous.

6. "High Soviet casualties were a result of their tactics more than German prowess" After 1941, the Russians soon began using the same blitzkrieg tactics as the Germans and still suffered huge losses. Statistically, the Germans usually inflicted twice as many casualties on their enemies than they themselves suffered during the war on both fronts. American involvement in the European war came only after the Afrikakorps, the Luftwaffe, and the Kriegsmarine had been virtually destroyed. Therefore, it is extremely doubtful that American troops would have been at all successful in your imagined invasion of occupied Europe; especially with the 190 divisions from the Eastern front free.

7. "The Soviets did the same, but their "inevitable" victory came only after Normandy and Salerno." By the time of the Normandy invasion in 1944, the Russians had liberated their own country and were moving through Poland and close to the borders of East Prussia. The Soviet Army had become the largest army in military history and had completely reformed itself from the army of 1941 with competent leadership, disciplined and capable troops, and advanced equipment. Normandy and Salerno secured western Europe from what would have been a Soviet dominated continent, a fact that even Winston Churchill acknowledged.

The United States could have sat out the war and the Germans would have still been defeated, unless you want to come up with some more absurd "alternate histories".