I had a problem rooting for Lucy - Erufen rîto (2004) Discussion

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] IkuharaKunihiko 14 years ago

A shady underground organization says that this and this race is evil, and you believe every word they say? The notion that the Diclonius only kill people was refuted the minute she and Nana went to live together with Kohta and Yuka, in peace and harmony, as friends, regardless of their difference between the races. Actually, in the ending in the manga, Lucy explains to Kohta that she has been abused so much in life that she just went berserk and went on to kill people – but then Kohta replies that even humans get mistreated and angry at each other, but that they have enough integrity not to kill, because they are not slaves to their instincts. We are not talking here about some black-and-white bad girl, but about Lucy, who had much, much more shades of grey, both good and bad sides. One of the strongest themes of the story is Nature vs. Nurture, and the way Lucy could and should have said no to her aggressive side.

Ironically, I think you answered my question much better in your own thread “Bitterness and Forgiveness”, where you yourself said: “What Elfen Lied taught me is just simply to let go of the past that you feel hurt you. The true way to approach life is to forgive and forget, an age old remedy that bears untimely wisdom. When Lucy finally approached Kohta and recieved his forgiveness she finally became free and we see that little bit of innocence and happiness that we all knew was the true Lucy all along.”

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[–] scofthe7seas 14 years ago

Remember that crazy voice that was telling her to kill at the carnival?
I think it is the diclonius nature to kill, but they can choose not to. They can fight that sort of thing if they have an outlet such as love, or something to focus positive emotions on. Also, from a super young age they develop these amazing powers that can totally blow people up. Think about the cases where such and such child brings a gun to school and shoots someone. Does the child really know what he’s done? What it means? I think not. Now amplify that times 100. The child can rampantly make people just go away and it doesn’t mean anything. This sort of thing can be ingrained to the point where killing is just a thing. You get in my way, I kill you. I’m in a bad mood, I kill you. You shoot at someone I care about, you better believe I kill you. I think growing up with this power she wasn’t completely responsible for its ramifications.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Samuraibro 7 years ago

A shady underground organization says that this and this race is evil, and you believe every word they say?

Did you miss the entire series where they pretty much proved that to be correct?

Yeah, a theme is nature vs. nurture but the anime itself barely touches upon that question, or any question about the Cruelty of Humanity™ or whatever BS topics that they try to bring up.

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[–] ihyw 13 years ago

The thing is, regardless of her goal as a diclonius, Lucy is a SADISTIC being. If it's her biological instinct and motivation to kill, fine (well no, but you get my point :P), but why torture people so cruelly? Amputating them, letting them bleed to death, gouging their eyes out...*shudder* I still like her though. [=

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[–] scofthe7seas 13 years ago

Think about kids who set fire to ants with a magnifying glass. It's not something a kid thinks about as being wrong. Ants exist, they are a nuisance, and they’re fun to kill. You think it’s sadistic? Probably not, because so many do it. Kids don’t have the same moral understandings as adults. Growing up with that mentality, getting used to it after doing such things so frequently… then being pent up in a weird mask/cage for so long.. I don’t think she can be judged all that harshly. I mean, don’t get me wrong. If she existed, I wouldn’t be the guy who claims she’s just misunderstood, and try to comfort her, only to be blowd up myself. :) I’d stay the hell away.

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[–] treslapetko 13 years ago

Ok ok you're right, but, after killing all those innocent guards and a girl, she, for some reason doesn't kill the director of that whole goddamn facility. WHY???

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[–] scofthe7seas 13 years ago

I think she was able to do it in the very first episode, but didn't, right? Maybe he was the closest thing to a father figure for her? I've got nothing on the subject :)

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[–] Ronny_the_effin_bear 13 years ago

It's been a while since I watched, but iirc she had a deal with the director from way back when. He helped Lucy's childhood friend, and in exchange Lucy would go with him peacefully or something like that. She kind of honors the deal between them but not killing him.

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[–] jcdizon416 13 years ago

Meh I haven't felt a single remorse for Lucy, after killing Kouta's family especially his little sister. I really hated the Lucy/Kouta kiss scene at the end. I always found her annoying even as Nyuu.

"heya hey, heya hey, HEYA!"

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[–] sofia2173 12 years ago

i agree with jcdizon416,
i had no sympathy for her, and i don't know if she annoyed me more as Lucy or Nyuu.
The fact that Kouta at the end not only didn't hate her but actually liked her made my stomach turn. She basically killed his family in front of him because she was jealous.

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[–] deadringer22000 13 years ago

Duh, she is not supposed to be a likeable character, and it is not all her fault. She is a interesting and watchable one however.

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[–] Rena_Mahone 13 years ago

I've never been a fan of Lucy, and I didn't really root for her. Anyway, she's better than Mariko, so at the end I was hoping for Lucy to defeat her. But, that aside, I never rooted for Lucy. I'm a Nana fan.

Boycott movies that involve real animal violence! (and their directors too)

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] S12345 12 years ago

Meh I haven't felt a single remorse for Lucy, after killing Kouta's family especially his little sister. I really hated the Lucy/Kouta kiss scene at the end. I always found her annoying even as Nyuu.

She feels remorse in the manga. The anime was too short and left out lots of details.

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[–] Samuraibro 7 years ago

Because the manga wasn't near done by that point.

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[–] marousha_n 10 years ago

How could you not root for her?
She was tortured her whole childhood because she was different. And in such cruel ways.
In the middle of all that, when she already hated humans, the only friend she found and really trusted/loved lied to her. It was an innocent lie from his part, but the drop that filled the glass for her. So she snapped.
As someone was previously saying in this thread, give a kid these powers, then throw him between bullies and watch the aftermath.
I hated her for what she did to Nana, but you must remember that she shortly warned her about the outcome.
By the time I saw what she did Kota's family I was already rooting for her and I really wanted them to be together regardless of what she has done.
She has done all out of love for him in a sick way. It's hard to understand, but i think this is what makes this story so unique, haunting and disturbing.

All time favorites
http://www.imdb.com/list/uXvt09u3fO4/

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[–] Samuraibro 7 years ago

Lmao how can you not root for her? Uh, because she's a sadistic psychopath? Everyone has had to be bullied or picked on at some point and they don't turn into murderers.

She warned Nana so that makes it okay for her to be dismembered slowly and painfully? What kind of sick person roots for someone even after they killed an innocent girl, her father, and dozens of other people who did nothing to her?

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[–] ham_fairy 12 years ago

Well, what really pissed me off is that everyone i know who has read/watched elfen lied is like "OMG YUKA IS SO ANNOYING SHE NEEDS TO GET A LIFE AND A GUY WHO ISN'T HER COUSIN etc etc" and then try to rationalize by saying that Lucy has "real" problems and that Yuka is just a whiny bitch. Yuka overreacts? Didn't Lucy slaughter a bunch of people at the festival after being set off by seeing Kohto with another girl?

Don't get me wrong, I really do like Lucy as a character, and what she went through at the research facility was horrible. I'm just surprised that Yuka doesn't get anyy sympathy simply because she "stands in the way" of Lucy and Kohta. Yuka obviously has some mental problems herself. She's extremely insecure, which is shown when she freaks out over Kohta interacting at all with Lucy, and terrified of abandonment. I have a lot of sympathy for her. I haven't read the manga and I really don't if they go into detail about her past, but I'm sure something happened to her as well.

...And tbh I really feel uncomfortable with the idea of Lucy in her "Nyu" state being considered a romantic candidate, because although she has the body of an adult, her mental state was that of a child. I got the idea that he loved her like a little sister, the sister he lost ironically to the same person.

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[–] S12345 12 years ago

I haven't read the manga and I really don't if they go into detail about her past, but I'm sure something happened to her as well.

Well, in the manga, nothing bad happened to Yuka.

The manga goes into more detail about how she was very clingy to Kohta since they were kids and how she has been very anxious about reuniting with him, which was why she was upset that Kohta didn't remember anything.

I didn't really mind her. She was more of a side-character to me and her only purpose there was so that Kohta can end up with a normal girl in the end.

Kohta + Lucy/Nyu just doesn't make sense.

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[–] Komodo_Gold 12 years ago

I found Lucy to be an interesting character, and can sort of see why she acts the way she does due to traumatic events in the past. Growing up in an orphanage, the bullying kids, the puppy incident, and later "betrayal" from the only guy who was nice to her (but understandably it does feel kind of "ick" to people who aren't comfortable with the idea of "kissing cousins" which is acceptable in Japan).

And to a young girl who doesn't know any better nor has any method of support (and the ability to kill people pretty casually), you can sort of see why she lashed out like that, and probably would've continued on had Kouta not of stopped her.

She doesn't end up with him in the manga (the anime makes it ambiguous, open to interpretation), as she's sort of dead by that point, but Kouta still wants to be part of her life and try to provide something positive for her, despite what she did.

If anything, I'm glad that I feel something for Lucy, whether hate or love. There's too many characters in a lot of media that are "meh, whatever", so I like that people do either hate Lucy or love her. At least she evokes a response.

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[–] benedictarnold67 12 years ago

i think that last point sums it all up (as far as Lucy and the series as a whole). there were things that could have been done better but, all in all, this one really gets you thinking a lot more than even some of my favorite other series. and it's great to have a "open to interpretation" ending that actually provokes an interpretation rather than just leaving it feeling unfinished and unsatisfying (HOTH)

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[–] ocramavaf 12 years ago

lucy per se is not evil, she is just hurt and seeking revenge without thinking of the consequences of said revenge initially still in her nyuu personality she does feel the remorse that as lucy she tries to hide, all in all i was neither rooting for her nor hating her, i understood where she came from, the anime was amazing i loved it, i just wish they actually explained how nana was able to shut of other diclonii's vectors since in the anime she is the only one who seems capable of doing it.

but yes all in all i think lucy's general behaviour should not be condemned nor condoned, and i think what affects the diclonii more than genetics with regards to killing is racial hatred, i mean they had so much done to them from a young age by humans that they all feel threatened by them and thus they become the ultimate survivalists only stopping when they are sure they and their interests are safe and they do not mind collateral damage in the process, i mean think israelis and germans, the jews endured so much at the hands of the nazis that they became the ultimate survivalists and now in israel they are just that with the arabs, that does not mean they are bad people, just like lucy, she is not bad, but she isent good either, she is a very gray character, aware of her power and how to use it, yet aware that the usage of it can have unpleasent consequences but the ultimate point is for her safety and those things that matter to her as her emotional safety is what lead her to kill in the first place because she could not stand the tought of being in pain of khouta's lie what she did after that was just collateral damage, untill the end when she killed for khouta's safety without regards for her own.

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[–] rapzip1 11 years ago

I don't know if this is because I am a non-Christian and vegetarian. But Lucy was a fascinating character. The picture of her killing Homo Sapiens is no less fiendish and repulsive than human killing cows and pigs in slaughter house. The theme of the anime is to re-examine the nature of human from uber-human species. I was a little surprised to find many people judge her character from hackneyed Christian moral perspective.

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[–] Kaleko 11 years ago

I am pretty sure that in general, non-Christians find killing just as immoral as Christians do. The ultimate cause of harm to other humans is death, and I feel just about the only universal moral belief of all humans and cultures (and even Atheists) is to not harm others. So I think you're incorrect to call murder a Christian belief. Additionally, I think your comment made it look like people who are not Christian do not have morals, which is NOT true by the way. I feel this part of your comment was a disservice to other non-Christians.

I personally find human slaughter more fiendish than cow/pig slaughter. As much as I love animals and am repulsed by the idea of slaughtering, I am more protective of my fellow humans. Perhaps it is a selfish thing, but honestly I feel it's a pretty expected thing. Us fellow loving, hating, thinking, feeling, speaking humans have much more in common with each other than other animals. And I would hope that if we have any respect or hope for our own worth as a human being, we would have that for others of our own kind.

This said, I did like your connection between this anime/manga's story and the way that humans treat animals. As I think about it, with the way Lucy and her peers loved animals, it does seem the author could have had this theme in mind. While I don't think Lucy's race was much different than humans except for their arm power and slight insanity due to the talking creepy thing in their heads urging them to kill, I am seeing more of a parallel there. Anyway, thanks for the interesting comment even though I disagreed with some of it.

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[–] RepublicofE 11 years ago

You're not supposed to "root for Lucy" per say. She is an antihero, not a hero. Just because she is the protagonist doesn't mean she is the "good guy".

One of the things I like about Elfen Lied is that there is no clear distinction between the "good guys" and the "bad guys". The whole series is focused on people's capacity to hurt one another.

In fact, Kouta admonished Lucy at the end for using her "DNA voice" as an excuse, saying all humans have a natural inclination to hurt one another, which is one of the themes of the series.

And it's not just Lucy. There are other characters that we sympathize with sometimes but not all the time, like Kurama, Bando, and Mariko. These characters are all "bad guys" yet have redeeming qualities.

Think about it, Kurama, who is one of the villains, actually empathizes with the diclonii.
One of the hardest scenes to watch is when Mariko, Nana, and Lucy all meet. Mariko tortures Nana, and we are appalled at her while sympathizing with Nana. Then Lucy comes along and tortures and kills Mariko, who now sympathizes with Nana. So now we are faced with the dilemma of sympathizing with Mariko, who we hadn't just a few minutes ago, against Lucy, who we had sympathized with in other scenes.

It's an interesting look into the human condition that Elfen Lied portrays very well.

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