MovieChat Forums > Living & Dying (2007) Discussion > ATF Agent (Warning, Spoiler)

ATF Agent (Warning, Spoiler)


There seems to one HUGE hole in this plot that destroys the rest of the movie. It has to deal with the undercover agent. During the course of the movie Sam (Furlong) is told that one of the robbers is an undercover ATF agent and that he has a spare gun on him. Sam then gets this gun, resulting in the shootout that ends the movie. This is all based on the premise that Agent Lind (Madsen) told him who the agent was.

One problem; it turns out that Lind is not an ATF agent so he could not have known about an undercover agent or a spare gun. For that matter, who's to say that the undercover agent was even with the ATF at all? Anyone else notice this?

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Yes, I did ... but it can be explained with (e.g.) that Bill also wasn't a real cop, but a confederate of Lind. Btw, it wasn't Lind who gave this information to Sam, it was Rick Devlin :) And why shouldn't the bad guys use spare guns as well? (plus the fact that and the end you don't know who's good or who's bad ...)

Nevertheless, I was a little surprised as it turned out that Bill's the "cop" - I reckoned on Sam ...

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I got one for you. The little gang of thieves had everything timed out, even had a guy on the inside, and still the cops show up early. Anybody else ever called the cops and had them show up in three minutes flat? Like Bill says, they must have known they were coming. So, who tipped off the cops? If there's an obvious answer in the movie, try not to laugh at me too hard.

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Bearing in mind that Devlin's a part of the group as well, what's wrong with the idea that even the police operation was planned? You don't need that many guys to know about it, Devlin himself would have been enough. Remember his reaction when he first heard that the ATF guy should do the negotiation? I thought his reaction was due to his big ego ... but after seeing the full movie, it could also be anger about some crossing his plan.

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well since both Devlin and the Atf guy was all involved in some point, niether is credible. But this movie makes no sense at all so I really fell rather stupid of putting mental effort in to analizing an obvious plot hole. But thats the exact problem of the plot anyway.. The writers did not even think as much as we do now on this matter.. The script might even be written during the shooting.. otherwise Cant rationally explain the awfulness of the story..

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