MovieChat Forums > Ang pagdadalaga ni Maximo Oliveros (2007) Discussion > Is this an accurate view of the attitude...

Is this an accurate view of the attitude towards gays?


I saw this movie yesterday at the International Filmfestival Rotterdam. The Director was present, however, due to the late hour, we had to leave before the Q&A. So I am left with a question.

Does the way people treat Maxi and his friends accurately portray the way Philippino's treat gays? I mean, the acceptance of his acting like a girl was so complete. No one was against is, no one realy teased him for it. This is wonderful but hardly realistic in almost any other country, even in my very liberal own country.

Also the fact that in the same neigbourhood there were more boys like Maxi is quite extraordinary. Usually you are lucky even to find two gay people living close to each other, but two transexual boys (or whatever)?

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Generally, yes. But like in the movie, they can occasionally be made fun of, too.

Filipinos are used to the idea of gays cross-dressing, even younger ones. In fact, the ratio of cross-dressing gays to non-cross dressing gays is about 60:40 or 50:50 (just a bold unscientific approximation.)

Also, there is less ostracizing from others, especially if one finds similar friends like Maxi does.

Filipinos tease gay kids every now and then but more often than not, only in a playful and non-offensive manner. Only bullies tend to be abrasive towards them.

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I'd have to agree with that. Filipinos are more tolerant towards homosexuality. I can't explain why but we just are. But maybe this article might shed some light on the subject. http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/philippines.html

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Homosexuality is quite a complex issue as I found out after taking a class about it. The Philippines is tolerant with homosexuals who are crossdressers but not the other types of homosexuals like the straight-looking ones. Some people wouldn't even believe that a guy is gay if he acts 'macho' and would immediately assume an effeminate man is gay. But the tolerance of crossdressing gays here is also a myth. As shown in many local programs, the "bakla" as we call them are usually the butt of many jokes most especially if they are not 'pretty'.

The 'bakla' figure has coexisted with the other members of a community because they do serve their purpose. The bakla is usually seen working in a parlor and acts like the watering hole of a neighborhood. They gossip and trade secrets. Though this is the 21st century, much of the thinking in the Philippines is still quite feudal because the bakla will still need to contribute to the good of the community to be able to live there and will have to strive even more so.

The answer to the question of realism in the movie's story is that yes, the gay people here do not suffer the same as they do in other countries. We do not have hate crimes and so far I have not heard of any gay person who died under such circumstances. What they suffer from occassionally is an abusive relationship. Because they are not wholly women (as many bakla here thinks) they feel they should strive more to be in a serious relationship and this cultivates to being used by other guys.

A boy of Maxi's personality is common in the Philippines. As to his family life, there are some examples of families who treat a Maxi-boy with the same love and respect.

Maybe it's not the same as before but I think the country's pre-colonization history may have answers to the country's present attitude towards gay people. There were such members of a tribe called the babaylan. They are originally women and are priestesses but they believe that when a boy acts like a girl, it is because the boy was destined to become a babaylan just so happens he was born a boy. The babaylan enjoyed a high stature in society and ruled just about every aspect of their lives. Even their high chiefs look up to the babaylan for their wisdom and more often than not these chieftains took as concubines the "male" babaylans.

Maybe this historical aspect carried itself through the years despite the colonizers best efforts to wipe it out. Maybe homosexuals have a better chance here...but as I mentioned, sexuality is a very complicated issue and I doubt everyone will want to take the time to understand them fully.

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My boyfriend of three years is Philippino and I've been to the Philippines twice with him (going a third time in a few months). Moreoever, he has a network of somewhere around 30 Philippino gay friends who go back and forth between the US and Manila that I've become close with and with whom I spend a lot of my time, both here in the US and in the Philippines when I'm there. I must say I've been very surprised by how open the Philippines is towards homosexuality. My boyfriend's family on both sides is extremely accepting of us. We go to large family dinners including many hosted by his two lolas. One of his lolas had a long chat with me about how important it is to have someone to love and who loves you, and that she was very happy my boyfriend and I had found each other. She's in her mid-80s. Granted, we joke that his other lola tried to set me up with a transexual (she introduced me to her transgendered hairdresser, and we still don't know if she was trying to pawn me off of her granson), but in all seriousness, she too has been very kind and generous towards me. I've also spent lots of time in Manila's gay scene and, though smaller, it doesn't feel that much unlike New York. My impression is that on this issue anyway, family and friends come very much first, ahead of any prejudices.

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Thanks for sharing that experience. It's very true here in the Philippines that family comes first before everything else other than God. We don't kill people cuz they like other people. Honestly, political killings, corruption, illegal gambling, drug abuses and pollution aside, the Philippines is a top-notch place to live in.

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To some extent there was some discrimination presented in the film; one has to remember the situation by which Maxi encountered Victor.

I think that in terms of tolerance of homosexuality, there are certain factors that people consider. The film, I think, is a testament to the fact that in terms of a person's situation in life, the concern for sexuality takes a backseat to the desperate struggle for survival. The sense of community is so relevant to this point, and there is also the implication of the philosophy that blood is thicker than water (or everything else), as Maxi finds himself caught in the middle of his own tug-o-war between his family and his childhood fancies.

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The question of accuracy in depiction is a flawed question. In the philippines, perhaps to a degree it is fairly accurate. However the film is not interested in the accuracy of depiction; while having a homosexual character, is not really about homosexuality at all: rather it is about how (as luna puts it) the existentialist question of being gay is secondary to existence --- or subsistence and survival.

It's hard enough to be gay EVEN in the society depicted in the film, like the Philippines, where gay people are tolerated. What's harder is realizing that one's priority is survival, not identity.

It's a sad tale, but a valid existentialist question. For that I think the movie is a successful depiction of the homosexual existence. It need not be accurate to a tee. =)

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Gays are tolerated in the Philippines but they are not completely accepted. People still make fun of them and treat them as mere comic relief in entertainment programs and such. In reality many closeted types are afraid to come out because people will be judgmental and critical of them and their lifestyles. Some even experienced discrimination especially in workplace.


__

"Everything matures...eventually"
A GOOD YEAR
Opens November 10, 2006

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I agree. More often than not, gender identity in the Philippines comes second to class identity. You'll be more discriminated if you're poor or uneducated.

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Excellent points by everyone. I'd just like to add, that there are a lot more of transgenders than straight-looking gays (at least, visibly). There are so many of them, especially in lower-income families. Nobody really minds them much, it's so normal to see them around. Being trangenders, they want STRAIGHT MEN, not other gays--even straight-looking gays, so they are single most of the time. SO, maybe that is one reason why most Filipinos find them "harmless."

There are more straight-looking gays, I find, in richer families. Not only that, they are often very discreet. You'll have to have very good gaydar if you don't know them personally. I only personally know one rich transgender gay.

Sorry for rambling, my point is, Filipinos seem to be more accepting of transgender gays, whether they are pretty or not, or openly gay guys than straight-looking gays, especially if they are loud and funny.

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I'm not too familiar with the Philippines (CA here) but I'd love to visit there. It sounds like a fascinating place. I'd only ever seen Macho Dancer before and I enjoyed it but I absolutely fell in love with this film.

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Some older Filipinos tend to be more homophobic...I'm 1/2 Filipino and from the Philippines, so I have family members that were. Of course, that changed when I came out of the closet, and they opened their minds. As a previous poster said, family comes first in the Philippines. My lola (like lots of other old Filipinos) doesn't like black people, which is obviously very dumb, but I'm pretty sure that if someone in our family married a black person and had a half black child, she would leave behind all of her discriminatory views. So yeah, the older people are generally homophobic unless they are forced to face it within their family. And younger Filipinos (say, under the age of 30) are usually indifferent.

Oh, and since another poster mentioned the gay scene in Manila - it is quite fabulous. =] I'm not into the gay scene, but if I were, Metro-Manila would be the place to go. Some pretty sweet clubs.

The heart has its reasons, which reason knows nothing of.

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Just got done watching the movie and was wondering about this aswell thanks for everyone who answered in this thread. Wish more people were tolerant.

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