I saw this movie, and I have to ask, WTF? Why is a guy named Deniz? Why is that kid mental? What the hell is up with the opening credits, when the guy is naked and blindfolded and it hit with the bucket of water?
It's probably because I'm less than fluent in Turkish, but I didn't get it at all....
I think you need to know a little bit of turkish history (past 25 years) to understand those scenes.. As far as I know, I might be mistaken, in the early 1980s the turkish government was overtaken by the turkish army. There were many young people(mostly students) that opposed the government and the laws. They tried to change it by force, so the army had to step in. Deniz was one these activists so he was questioned and tortured at the beginning of the movie.
And I don't have an answer why the kid is called Deniz:).. "Deniz" is a unisex name by the way..
Ohh and Deniz is not mental, since there are no tvs around he is entertaining himself with his imagination... What an imagination that is!
deniz gezmis
share----SPOILER ALERT----
Your post describes why this is not a good movie. The filmmakers don't know anything about storytelling. They show the result without showing the reason, without setting up the story. The script is just for Turkish people who know the history of Turkey. Even young Turkish people can't get anything from those scenes you mentioned.
Target audience was "Turkish TV series watching Turkish crowd" (it's a huge amount of people in Turkey). The production quality of the movies in Turkey is not akin to cinematographic standards. They all look like TV series.
Seeing a Turkish movie and crying after mean a lot to TV series watchers. They praise the movie if it made them cry. The writer knows it, the director knows it... So do the producer. After Love Story (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066011/), Turkish movies became more and more dramatic. Turkish people is mostly sentimental. The filmmakers loved to exploit and the audience loved to be exploited. This movie is one of those traditional exploitations.
You create a hero, show him all through the movie. I mean ALL through the movie. He's in every single scene. The audience gets used to him and identify themselves with him. Then you make him sick and you show him in bed for a half hour. Then you kill him with a dramatic folk tune and show crying people after him. His father fells to the ground, his son sees hallucinations of him etc. This creates a big emptiness in the hearts of the audience. They are already sentimental people and start to cry. If you make them cry, you proove the movie is good.
The reasons for the movie's success in Turkey:
- To follow an ordinary, easy to catch storyline.
- To use characters similar to the majority of people in Turkey.
- To use a real and dramatic part of Turkey's history. Many Turkish people suffered in second half of 1970's and first half of 1980's. They live with us. They have relatives. Big advantage.
- To use three generations, so anybody could identify himself with a character in the movie. They would at least say: "I could be him dying. I could be him crying".
- To use "family". Family is very important in Turkey.
- To work with a well-recognized cast from TV series in Turkey. The audience felt comfortable with the faces they see every day.
- To look like a TV production. Believe it or not. It's an advantage in Turkey.
This is a local movie for Turkey. I think it's "uber-overrated" and voted 1. 9.2 is far more than it deserves. I would give it a 4 if it was not "uber-overrated".
It's too bad you are not one of those "sentimental" people. I think acting in this movie is superb. As you said, most of the people watching this movie feel related to these characters. So how does this make it bad? Doesn't all the drama genre movies try to achieve this?
I think it deserves the high rating for not only it makes you cry, but for making you feel in the movie.
I agree with you on the story telling part.. They should have informed the audiance with more details about the history and setting. That's why it is not rated 10 :) everything else about this movie is perfect.
I hope worldwide audiance will come to notice this amazingly moving picture..
where is the problem if this movie is targeted sentimental people? actually since so many people suffered those days it is hard to be not sentimental.
yes story telling was not so good, i think there were some gaffer errors in the movie too, but besides them i like the movie so much
i have a question about their names. in the scene where sadik talks to his father in the yard at night, he complains about their father having named his kids sadik and salim. is there some kind of stigma attached to these names?
share[deleted]
You called me as an a..hole many times. This is not a place to talk in such fashion. This is a place for civilized people who can discuss without swearing. Swearing at people is very easy if they don't see you and they don't know who you are. We could argue this "a..hole situation" face to face and one on one.
My name is Boke Yuzgen. My home is in Mecidiyekoy/Istanbul. My workplace is in Levent/Istanbul. My website is yuzgen.com. My workplace's website is ira.com.tr. You can find contact details there. I'm 29 years old. Once again, I would love to talk face to face and one on one, especially if you're between the ages of 25-35.
If you do not like to be called as an a..hole, do not behave like an a..hole, pay a little attention what you are writing on public boards, do not make any ridicilous comments, do not try to cheat people with this kind of civilized person bullsh.ts. Acctually, the best thing for you would be keeping your mouth shut, because as long as you keep on talking, you have no chance not to be called as an a..hole.
Being civilised do not necessarily mean being polite in every situation. I do not see any reason to be polite to you. The things you wrote and the way how you wrote these things show that you do not have any idea about how to critisize a movie. It is very normal and intelligible that you did not like this movie. Nobody has to like a movie. However, making a general statement about all Turkish movies and insulting all the nation with ridicilous comments make you funny.
And all those addresses and website links... Don`t be funny :-)
Mehmet Öte
hahahaha! Komik seyler sizi ;)
shareAre you serious? I know absolutely nothing about Turkish history but I understood why he was inprisoned and all the other things you mention. I can't understand why some people need to have everything written on their nose and overexplained to them. Would you've been happy if there were some subtitles saying "Salim then became prisoned because blah blah blah"?
People who don't get these scenes have seen to many Hollywood-productions and should learn to think for themself.
Dear Yuzgen.. Too bad that you are not sentimental.. Although your nick name seems to be Turkish one -probably you are not! Maybe, that's because of your raising in Germany.. Whatever, you may not like the film since it is not a Terminator or Rambo that you would most likely enjoy more, that won't make this film "uber"rated!
I myself like Scarface, Godfather too, but that doesn't make me less sentimental.. That's probably because of my humanitarian nature..
"- To use characters similar to the majority of people in Turkey."
Does that not just make it....realistic?
"To use "family". Family is very important in Turkey."
And in most other countries....
"You create a hero, show him all through the movie. I mean ALL through the movie. He's in every single scene."
Its called a protagonist, and to be honest even the most "way-out" films have one, how do you tell a personal story without at least one central character?
You can be right in your critics.
However, the scene where the father gets of the car and yells at himself for the death of his son is the most emotional scene I have seen in my life. That scene describes how a father feels when he losses his son. And you cannot seen that kind of emotional scenes in Western movies, in a society where it's less common to show emotions in public.
That scene will never get out of my mind.
Other than that you may be right about how to affect Turkish moviegoers.
Your post makes me want to see the movie very badly. When I do, I feel like I'll learn a lot about the Turkish people as a result (although I am not hold out a lot of hope for the movie to be of a high quality.)
shareDeniz is a name of a very famous Turkish communist-college student. And since the man was a communist too, he named his child after that legendary man.
As you know, that's why (being a communist) they split up with his father in the first place. ;)
iki Türk Ingilizce kavga ediyor. Bunu da gördük.
[deleted]
haha koptum, cok haklisin.
Its a good film people, why analyze every aspect? Enjoy the feelings it brings upon you, enjoy its reality. I dont think anyone can say they have not found a small part of themselves in this film. I love films that are parts out of life itself...and this is it.
Hmmm this is not question about fluent turkish this is more question about a basic general culture....and the name of the kid is not the plot of the film believe me!
shareDear marikun46,
first of all, the kid wasn't mentally ill, like an other user already mentioned it. He was just a "kid". ;)
The kid took his name from Deniz Gezmis. Further details about him could be found on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniz_Gezmi%C5%9F
If you would like to read this in turkish, click the link below:
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniz_Gezmi%C5%9F
And about the scene with the naked man and water. It represents a dark period of turkish political history, which ended with the military coup by the military on 12nd of September, 1980. Deniz, the kid was born on this very day. Detailed info could be found on wikipedia again.
Regards.
hi,
I thought this was one of the best latest turkish films i have seen.
It was deeply moving, and it caused me to cry for the final hour.
It was sooooooooooooooo gr8!
Also, I agree with the guy who was telling the other guy to stop insulting Turkish people. Especially since he is Turkish. Who does that for crying out loud? WTF?
And stop argueing over a film. It was a good film and you are ruining it by insulting the Turkish people.
Sad to see the poor analysis of "Yuzgen"
I will not argue about it is a 8,9,10 movie nor the Turkish stereotype but will strongly recommend this movie to everyone.
Why is it sad? He/She has every right to dislike a movie and criticize it as he/she likes. I didn't see any insults, there. If you cannot stand opposite ideas, then what are you doing in a discussion board?
It is a good-to-mediocre film. I loved some parts of acting, but the story here is nothing original and it is insufficient; and as yuzgen explained, it really strives too hard to make people cry.
[deleted]
''Also, I agree with the guy who was telling the other guy to stop insulting Turkish people. Especially since he is Turkish. Who does that for crying out loud? WTF? ''
even though I don't agree with Yuzgen's messege, I don't think he actually insulted the Turkish People. he thought that people in turkey where more emotional.
I'm Turkish and some doesn't speak to me either, the same Idea goes for all the magazine programe's that air on each channel every day, it shows the same thing over and over and over again.
IT's not that the people are stupid, or anything insulting for the matter. the thing is that there are so many of the same kind of series/programmes/reality shows that at some point they all begin to be alike. therefor once the people who watch it are used to seeing the same way, they keep making the same kind of things, because the viewers they know will watch (because it is no different a concept). Think about it, every magazine prog is turkey shows the same footage every day for at least a weak, continues till everyone is sick of it. they atleast show the same footage and 6 times before actually telling you what's up. and while you're waiting they put in add's with ''this guy just bought a farrari, look what his fellow actor said about it. blah blah blah is outraged'' and stuff like that.
and that is what Yuzgen ment, I think.
I don't agree with the fact that the movie was bad, I voted a 10 for it. because it moved me more than any movie I've seen so far.
as I have posted on an other topic:
.....have you thought of why people cry at movies, it is a sign.
you cry when you're sad, and the only way you would do so with a story is for you to show empathy towards its caracters.
A movie isn't just a filmroll and the printing of the colours into it. a director is like a composer, when you watch/listen to his creation you look though their eyes and when you identify yourself with the story, it becomes more than that, a window into other lives than your own.
when you see it like that, it means the director succeded.
a less good dirextor has likely to fail.
ps: there are loads of films that don't give you insight to things, I imagen if you find the story hard to follow (if you don't speak turkish) even with subtitles, than you really must hated when movies have open endings.
and they did give a clue about the beating, his father keeps calling him an anarchist.
Cheers, feel free to respond.....
"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0476735/"; let's get it in the top list! VOTE
Concequences,
I am not from Turkey and I found Yuzgen's tone a little insulting because it was somewhat harsh. If people focus on why the main character was abused in what appears to be a prison; and why was that not fully explained; and this and that (and all that digression); well, their nitpickyness will make them miss what the main theme of this movie was: human realtionships, human decisions, human consequences ;)
So, for example, saying so matter-of-factly "The script is just for Turkish people who know the history of Turkey", hey, I think that is a little insulting because of the way it was said. I saw the movie because a friend who likes international cinema recommended it. I do not know Turkish, watched the movie without subtitles and understood the main motivations of everybody there without having to know the details. I am a father so maybe that is why I did understand. So, hey, the script worked for me because the script guided a director to tell a story in a certain way. In fact, I am merely paraphrasing yourself. I think you agree with me on that.
But in actuality, Yuzgen making generalizations of Turkish sensibilities to explain the success of the movie is, to put it bluntly, simply insulting. Maybe he just doesn't like this kind of movies.
Stubbles,
thanks for responding, "The script is just for Turkish people who know the history of Turkey", I never said that. and I don't agree with it either.
and I think that it's more insulting to non-turkish people, because they're separeted.
to say it's just for one group of people is insulting.
even though there are louds of turkish people that no less or extreemly little of the history of turkey, I believe that is present in every nation.
there was news on the turkish network, a week back. I was just zapping when I saw it.
they where interviewing the 1990 born people, and the youth where going to the universatie soon.
they asked them about politics and old priminsters and history, etc.
they asked if the girl knew who Kenan Evren was, wich is a presedent from 1982 – 1989. and the girl could fully answer, she only knew that he painted too, yet could not recall that he was an ex-president. and he is also the the president and he was the Chief of the Turkish General Staff whom decided to overthrow the goverment, after that he becaime the preesident.a smaller form of revolution. they closed down the Parliament and turkish was for the time being under the rule of the army.
they asked many others aswell, and there where other that gave weird answers, this one stayed with me.
In my good nature I hope that is what he ment. I dont agree with everything he said, just the part I've written about and said I've agreed on.
and Yuzgen, maybe doesn't like this kind of films, I merely wrote what I thought of what he said.
the thing that he wrote and wich I agreed on was this: the turkish t.v. networkts really do make series/programmes and other kinds of things a like. it is in my oppinion true that people are shown more emotionally based (or humor) films/series/stories/prog./etc.
personally I find almost all the series/progs on the turkish network extreemly dull, because they are so alike and yes almost all series in turkey are really.. I swear either Drama (that really does aim to make people cry) or humoristic (wich is from time to time funny.. )
the effect really is that people get used to watching them,.. and therefor the networks themself keep making the same kind in order to take minimum risk.
my grandmother happens to be addicted to them :):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
and yes, I have told her this and she didn't care.
Cheers..... have a pleasant day
edit:I used incorrect grammer at this one, wich gave the sentince a whole new meaning. sorry.
Concequences,
Your response was a joy to read :) One of the reasons, I believe, many (me included) can learn from the the way Turkish educated people can handle disagreements (http://jakedolson.com/blog/?p=54). I agree with the point you brought and Yuzgen started; I only disagree in the manner in which he (or she?) brought it, especially coming from a Türk. The more we can concentrate on doing a critique on a movie (even mentioning all its motivations, good or bad) and a little less on our own --sometimes very-- biased views, the more these posts are going to help us understand and love movies and moviemaking more.
The quote above ("The script is just...") is from Yuzgen's initial post.
yours was a very pleasant read aswell,.. and yes the quote was from yuzgen, as I've said I dont agree with it.
I agree with you that his tone was less kind, his view on the film was one sided and would not listen to other comments about the film.
I think it would have been worse if it was a non-turkish person whom said it.
and come to think of it, even though his tone was very harsh.
some people critisize themselfs, others may critisize their faith or family,... in yuzgens way he critisized the the people whom liked this movie. for he thought that it was a bad picture and did not desearve a 9.2.
and this is something that everyone does actually,.. imagen it.
there are loads of people whom say that (let's say....) Titanic is a stupid and boring movie, yet it has 11 oscars, and if we should put them in one room and make them discuss the matter they will critisize each other aswell. now yuzgen did the same thing with a harsh tone, one sided look on it, magnified it a bit and did it on a board where the two parties: 1) did not have equal participants and two) unfortunatly not everybody responds like you have done.
Cheers.... :)
Start watching the movie. Probably, stop watching before it ends. Then, login a site mostly IMDb, rate the movie 1. Then start a topic (likely an insulting topic) and curse on the movie, the director, the writer, the script and any other thing related to the movie. Later, some guys reply the topic and say the movie is not that bad. Then, insult/humiliate/classify the ones who find the movie decent and try to explain why they like the movie with little sociological knowledge. Then the others try to explain that is not so. And this goes on. There emerge two sides under the topic. The new-comers to the topic even do not mention their ideas, just support either of the ideas (I agree with x / I disagree with x). This is like "you did, no i did not, you did, no i did not ..." That's the format that I've seen in many forums, boards etc. Definitely, this is one of them. Can't you see that you can get to nowhere? This is not commenting or arguing. This is trying to uniformize the ideas. Anyway, writing or reading this text will not change anything, but only relieve me.
shareOglum sen once, turkceyi ogren, ben turk degilim amma turkce biliyom, sen turksun ve ingilizce konusiyon... turkce bilmiyorsan neden turk filmi izliyon lan? sana na lan, cocugun isminden??? herkes de buna anlatiyor ke ne var ne yok... birakin ya bunun gibileri... bunlardan cok var bu dunyada... birakin karanlikta kalsinlar... ;)
shareingliterede yasiyan bir turk olarak HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
muhtesem bir kavganin icinde buldum kendimi...BRAVOOO...
every person ACTUALLY responding to these 'uncivilised' people are one themselves...stop retaliating and get on with the critical analysis of this movie please...yeterince soguk savaslar gorduk, birde siz baslamayin :D...
hehehe nasil ama, turkceyi ve ingilizceyi dengeledim...;)
I believe I can fly. I believe i can drop and die.