MovieChat Forums > Sluga Gosudarev (2007) Discussion > Good movie, REALLY SUCKED as documentary

Good movie, REALLY SUCKED as documentary

posted 16 years ago by The-Swede
17 replies | jump to latest

Good movie, REALLY SUCKED as documentary
Im from Sweden, dont get me wrong, this IS a nice movie. Really enjoyed the whole picture, really enjoyed the SwedesAreBad parts, because we acually did do BAD things at 1709. The invented story with the details about french observers, the black rider etc was nice 2, worked fine to make the movie ’going’. (Karl XII was by the way hurt in one foot by a bullet before battle, nice thing to make a movie main char do this in the movie)
Just some clearifications about the battle, because it is tense, welldone and SUCKS as historical document…
The whole redutt fight was a misunderstanding – Swedish orders was to run thru reduttes just before morning/sunbreak – thru to the fields beyond. Unclear orders made 2000 out of 8000 infantries die at reduttes in vain and only captured some of them. (6000 ran thru as ordered)
At main battle of Poltava-battle (after reduttes), 6000 Swedish infantrys attacked 18000 (!) likewise Russians. The Swedes had gunpowder for one shot only and no artillery at all. The Russian army used all the modern artillery they disposed. It was a slaughter, and approx 3000 or more Swedes were Dead Meat before able to make their first and only shot in this fight.
Tsar Peter dwelled inside Russian camp whole battle (generals made all decisions) – and no glorious cavallery charge changed the tide of battle at Poltava. Noteable: in fact cavallery at this time had lost most of its OFFENSIVE capabilities (example: 60 years earlier Swedish infantry slaughtered the royal Polish cavallery outside Warsaw with no cavallery support). Cavallery at this time was mostly used vs cavallery, vs flanks or vs fleeing runners.

EDIT 2010-08-13 after message from hmsgroop: I found descriptions on how tsar Peter actually was riding out on the flank. From there he gave command over the army to one of the experienced generals. After that it seems that he actually did take command over one of the batallions at the armys center and engaged battle. Guess I have to take back the part of dwelling inside camp. He didnt command the army, but he did fight.

The first outcome of Poltava was obvious for the remains of Swedish infantry, documents state them hiding under dead friends, sniped to death from distance by Russians. The second outcome was political: Sweden forever erased from the list of superdominating nations. Im happy for that part. For example: Bin Laden ignores us :)
I see this screen strictly as adventure but pointless if You wanna know what really happened – and in fact rate this Adventure to 7/10.

My 2 cents.
/Stefan

[–] mange_malvakt 16 years ago

Lol ur a nerd.

[–] The-Swede 16 years ago

Im Mr Geek for u, m8 ;)

[–] Ace_Blazer 15 years ago

Great review. I guess thats film making for you, Hollywood or not.

[–] merikari 15 years ago

I read a bit about the battle from Wikipedia as I watched this movie. It was fairly obvious that the battle was indeed very different from what we saw here. The Swedes were indeed outnumbered 3:1, and although better trained they never had a chance. Apparently Charles XII also stayed in camp, because he was wounded, and his generals were in charge of running into the slaughter. A real military disaster.

It was really nice that all the characters spoke their own language, although Peter the Great would have certainly spoken French with his French prisoners. It seemed like an attempt to make him feel more like a man of the people.

[–] robertodelamar 15 years ago

Good review, Stefan.

I have seen the movie a few days ago in Russian.

I have been in Sweden and to Poltava.
I am working in Ukraine now..

The actors were overacting somewhat as is common from many Russian films.
Although, the film is not at all historically accurate, it does serve some historical purpose to most laymen who have never heard of Poltava nor know that Sweden was at one time a military power..
Most Russians/Ukrainians know all about this battle, there is even a common saying in Russian that translates as, "to burn like Swedes".

The early scene in the Polish pub had four different nationals (Russian, French, Polish and German) all speaking to each other in four different languages. Quite a unique setup.

I must say that as far as bad guys go, the Swedes were still portrayed all right, like humane bad guys.. Made it somewhat funny knowing the Swedish peacefull character that we are all used to these days.

We Canadians know all about the traditional Russian and Swedish mentalities from hockey...

[–] The-Swede 14 years ago

"to burn like Swedes", LOL LOL LOL, I never heard that, but Im amused to know that, thanks!
See You at Olympics m8, I'm sure we wont defend our gold title in hockey this year, but we will sure try! :)

[–] p-o-thunder 14 years ago

The Swede or Stefan!

I can give you 2 cents too.
You are one of the reasons Sweden has gone to hell. Thank the heavens you are not anybody i know for your sake.

Btw this movie has non-existent realism and the battle isnt playing out truthfully. What happened to the part where swedish infantry general Rosen has the russian infantry flanked and on the run ready to take the town?

The swedish infantry had plenty off ammo with them but they didnt use it alot since the main tactic for the swedish army was to shock the enemy, which meant marching against them only firing a few metres away then storm them.

Im sad to see my fellow swedes has zero patriotism and zero knowledge about the swedish history.

No wonder the country has gone to hell.

[–] The-Swede 14 years ago

p-o-thunder - I comment Your facts and not the insults...

The generals name was (Carl Gustaf) ROOS, not "Rosen", and after the meaningless battle at the redutts was ROOS forces, not the russian forces, overwhelmed and on the run down towards Poltava. When they gave up there was 400 out of 2600 alive.

Regarding ammo: indeed the "main tactic for the swedish army was to shock the enemy, which meant marching against them only firing a few metres away then storm them." Correct. Still, according to my 2 books the swedish infantry had only ammo to fire once, which they also did...

[–] p-o-thunder 14 years ago

Then your book is lying because everything you said except that part about Roos was false.

General Rosen was general at the late 1700. Butthe swedish infantry forces under Roos overwhelmed the russians and was about to enter the city when they were forced to halt and was ordered back to support Rehnskiölds chargewhich had trouble at the redutts. You need to find a better book that is not written by defatist republicans.

[–] The-Swede 14 years ago

"everything you said except that part about Roos was false"
LOL

"General Rosen was general at the late 1700"
Your General Rosen (1688-1769), I found him now. He is NOT the dude that led 2600 infantrysoldiers in Poltava. Rosen didnt do anything special in Poltava that gave echo to the books, but he WAS there, thats correct. Roos was the dude that led the soldiers to massacre.

"swedish infantry forces under Roos overwhelmed the russians and was about to enter the city "
Roos never had any orders to attack the city. He never tried to attack the city. Roos orders (that he misunderstood) was the same as the rest of the infantry: RUN PASS the reduttes and join the rest approx 2/3 of the infatntry, then join the attack on the russian camp. After the massacre Roos batallions was overwhelmed and he fled towards Poltava and his remaining men defended from a redutt the russians left empty.

Roos "was ordered back to support Rehnskiölds chargewhich had trouble at the redutts"
Rehnskiöld had nothing to do with the redutt assault. As i stated before: Roos was the dude that led the soldiers to massacre.
Rehnskiöld was at this time on the other side of the reduttes, and in fact led the swedish army together with Lewenhaupt.
Rehnskiöld and Lewenhaupt waited as long as they could before the attack om the camp, but couldnt even find out where Roos and hes men was. Finally they had to attack without him.

"You need to find a better book that is not written by defatist republicans"
LOL

You declared that I am "one of the reasons Sweden has gone to hell" (I totally disagree, Sweden is great) I guess You are swedish too. Read Peter Englunds "Poltava" in this matter then. I've read it 4 times.

Checking Your posting history, You really really love to generalize. As in "You dont think like me so You dont know anything". Your problem, not mine.

[–] p-o-thunder 14 years ago

"General Rosen was general at the late 1700"
Your General Rosen (1688-1769), I found him now. He is NOT the dude that led 2600 infantrysoldiers in Poltava. Rosen didnt do anything special in Poltava that gave echo to the books, but he WAS there, thats correct. Roos was the dude that led the soldiers to massacre. "

I KNOW I JUST SAID THAT DIDNT I READ FFS

idiots

[–] The-Swede 14 years ago

"I KNOW I JUST SAID THAT DIDNT I READ FFS"
I cant write invisible prints, sorry m8

I never saw You say that "Rosen is NOT the dude that led 2600 infantrysoldiers in Poltava"
I never saw You say that "Rosen didnt do anything special in Poltava" etc.

On the contrary, You were claiming that
......"Rosen has the russian infantry flanked and on the run ready to take the town" (WRONG)
...Rosen was ordered back to "support Rehnskiölds chargewhich had trouble at the redutts" (WRONG)

BTW, YOU brought Rosen up, not me. He didnt do anything of significance at Poltava.

Try for a change not to call people idiots/retards etc. Maybe You even find new friends. Your message history is so full of insults it makes me laugh.

[–] hmsgroop 14 years ago

Sorry, but your claiming that Tsar Peter dwelled inside Russian camp never taking part in any charge is grossly wrong. When the lines of the 1t Novgorod battalion were broken by the Swedes and a dangerous breach in Russian lines formed, Peter headed the charge of the 2nd Novgorod battalion. One Swedish bullet hit his hat, another one hit his saddle, and the third bullet hit his crucifix worn on the neck.
Be accurate with facts, please.

[–] The-Swede 14 years ago

One book I've read clearly tells that tsar Peter stayed inside camp during the battle.
My other book is not that clear on this subject, but at least never mentions his name when describing how russian forces bent and broke the swedish left flank.
They both state that Peter let his generals make the descisions.

Nevertheless, You seem sure and know facts about batallions etc and I wont argue. You may be right. I've only read swedish books in this matter. (Don't know about You.)

EDIT: this part bugged me. Googled around and found descriptions on how tsar Peter actually was riding out on the flank. From there he gave command over the army to one of the experienced generals. After that it seems that he actually did take command over one of the batallions at the armys center and engaged battle. Guess I have to take back the part of dwelling inside camp! :)

[–] hmsgroop 11 years ago

I have read this bit in "Полтавская битва: 300 лет славы" (The Battle of Poltava: 3 centuries of glory) by Александр Радьевич Андреев (Alexander Andreyev). By the way, Peter's hat and saddle are still kept in the Hermitage. http://otvet.mail.ru/question/25809080

[–] Grothian 12 years ago

Hat, saddle and crucifix? Hahaha what a bloody joke. It stinks of propaganda "God protects us etcetc", jeeez get real will you. One of our old kings i read about, Gustav II i believe, was said to fell as he got away from the main troop. The full truth is that he got injured, and that he was to fat so the enemy soldiers couldn't carry him, and thereby shot him.

You can actually feel when it is propaganda. Because when it is too heroic, it probably is.

Because im god, are you god to question my answer?

[–] The-Swede 12 years ago

Sorry Grothian, but I don't see Your point?
(And historicans are not sure what happened with king Gustav II Adolf who died 77 years before Poltava. He was shot by Moritz von Falkenberg, then moved, plundered and finally killed. Many theorys sais that Moritz with friends actually never understood who the king was.)