MovieChat Forums > Pope John Paul II (2005) Discussion > Awesome perspective of politics + the ch...

Awesome perspective of politics + the church


I really enjoyed the first part of this miniseries, and am looking forward to its conclusion. Was worried it would be diluted and Disney-esque, but the film does an awesome job of showing the political upheaval of 20th century Europe. This is something that even most American-made world history texts don't portray very accurately. If anyone is interested, there is another interesting film that portrays Soviet involvement in the European Catholic Church called "Gospa" with Martin Sheen. Also a very poignant perspective on the subject.

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ChuckTaylor, you made a good point here. I really enjoy the objective view of political and religious view in thie mini.

It is among the best biopic I have known

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I'm not American, so I'm wondering which parts that you suggested as "This is something that even most American-made world history texts don't portray very accurately"?

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Good question. I was talking specifically about public high school texts. Because laws are so strict about the seperation of church and state in the U.S., the religious factors of most historical events are absent. I didn't even know who Martin Luther of Bishop Desmond Tutu were until I got to college. And being Jesus isn't discussed, there are no insights about Nazi-Germany's stance on the Catholic Church, and more importantly their restrictions on the display of crucifixes. That was actually news to me, when in Part 1 of the miniseries the Nazi soldier removed the crucifix from the wall and threw it to the floor with such disrespect.

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Thank you for your answer. I didn't know the extend of efforts to sanitize students from religion has gone that far. People always hear how President George W. Bush tries to 'christinize' America, so I didn't get it.

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You're welcome. I wouldn't call it sanitizing. More like coddling. Seperation of church and state is a progressive philosophy, which invests the reponsiblity of theological and spiritual teachings in the family. The problem, in my opinion, is U.S. culture has bread a sensitivity to the nouns and buzz-words spoken in our society (specifically our schools, in regards to this conversation), causing many to scoff at the mention of religious factors in regards to history, without examining the influence they've had on the world in which we live. Example, public school teachers aren't allowed to even mention The Ten Commandments in class. So to explain the historical origins of human rights laws, a teacher can not reference The Ten Commandments as a document that shaped law-and-order in our global society. In theory, a kid goes home, tells mom and dad they learned about human rights in school today, and the parents can then choose to put such knowledge into a theological context. The problem is, there are too many parents who are apathetic to the process. I don't blame politicians for the epidemic of stupidity in the U.S. I blame lackluster parenting. Afterall, the U.S. in theory is a democracy. In my opinion, the public school system needs to reexamine the diffence between education and advocacy. There needs to be a way to say: "Hey kids, there was this pope named John Paul II, and here is what he did to shape the world we live in."

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In regards to your comment about the ten commandments, I think part of the problem would be neutral uniformity of discussion in a classroom setting.

No two teachers are alike and certainly in questions of theological concepts, they will have a wide variety of opinions. It's tough for some teachers to be neutral when their own personal beliefs and opinions are an influencing factor? How do those opinions get filtered in a consistant way so that 1) the teacher isn't trying to inject any of their own personal theological or non-theological beliefs into the classroom, and 2) the teacher doesn't inadvertently offend any students who come from backgrounds with different opinions of personal belief?

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I agree that it would be impossible to practically guarantee the manner in which teachers presesnt facts of theological nature, but I think they need to be trusted to do their jobs. Just as in the controversy over The Pledge Of Allegiance, teachers are trusted not to reenforce their personal beliefs over the phrase "one nation under God". And I'm not talking about K-8 or even K-10 here. I'm talking about upperclassmen high schoolers who should be presented with some scope of actual history before they go out into the world, whether it be the workforce or to college. I'm not saying history texts should adopt chapters on Jesus, Vishnu, Brahma, or any other spiritual figures that some would debate ever existed. I'm talking about religious figures of historical significance like Martin Luther, William Stillwell, John Paul II, etc. Ultimately, high school students need to be trusted to discern between history and theology.

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