Super Maeve
They are overpowering her character.
shareshe already have that ability to control other hosts, maybe she didnt knew it could work in this way as well which is more efficient.
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MovieChat Forums > Westworld (2016) Discussion > Super Maeve
You are The One, Neo. :)
Maeve is super-powered ... for now. But I'm guessing that using that connection to manipulate other hosts or share information with them will speed up their learning the same skill. Once they all have it, level playing field again. No one can screw with anyone else's mind against their will. Except they'll all have built-in radio allowing them to communicate without speaking aloud. All that's really happening here is that they're accessing the park network. In the middle of the ocean they'd lose that comm channel. While out in the real world they could probably use the internet for the same purpose.
They certainly are IMO. Her "gift" is certainly a convenient plot device, designed to get her out of trouble at a moments notice, setting her up as some sort of host messiah. Even Dolores would be threatened by her so called talent & if she knew, she's probably seek to destroy her, but that's my take on it.
shareIt won't stay confined to Maeve for long. Every time she opens a connection to another host (unless they're promptly killed) I'm guessing they get closer to being able to do it themselves. It may not take more than once or twice actually. Simply knowing it's possible and getting a taste of what it feels like is a huge step in that direction. Sooner or later, and it could well be sooner than she'd like, the playing field will be level again.
I think it's fairly obvious that Maeve is shaping up to be the anti-Wyatt. And Bernard? The mole among the humans perhaps? We don't know what game he's playing yet, who he's working for (if anyone) or what his agenda might be. Not an easy guy to read these days.
I like what you're thinking. I'd love it if Maeve would take "Wyatt" out. Bernard and William are the main reasons I still watch this show.
shareMaeve is both more human and more humane than Lee, the author of most of the parks’ narratives. Lee is cold, purely self-interested, mechanical. Maeve is warm, compassionate, willing to put herself in harm’s way to help others, and vital. It’s almost as if the T800 were the human, and John Conner were the Terminator.
shareI agree. If it gets to a point where she can magically have this power over humans, I'm probably going to have to bow out of this one. That would be a little too ridiculous.
shareMaeve doesn't have any super powers. All she's doing is accessing the park network through her wireless interface, and using it to get into the brains of other hosts. Basically she's doing what a human tech needs a tablet to do - freezing the hosts, giving them new narratives, etc. It's no more magical or mysterious than phones on a cell network. The safeguards that used to keep this stuff one way only, humans accessing and hosts being accessed, have been wiped. All bets are off now.
Eventually the surviving hosts will all be able to get on the network and talk to each other through internal data streams without having to speak out loud. Or even send visual data, present or past. Share memories with each other. Call it telepathy if you like. A human with some kind of implant that lets their brain communicate directly with computers might be able to join in. But an unchipped human being couldn't get on the network any more than they could take a call or get a text message without a phone. There'd have to be some kind of wireless connected hardware in a person's skull for Maeve to get into their mind.
I really hope you're right. The show seems to be taking the whole "they are a superior being" approach. That, coupled with the fact that there are people in real life that think AI is just the next step in human evolution... I wouldn't be totally surprised if the writers try and go there.
I agree with what you're saying. I'm afraid of what I'm saying, for the show's sake.
If Maeve is able to connect with humans, it means they aren't. Bernard and Elsie's little foray through the old lab where they found James Delos is just one hint at the possibility that there may be no one on the island but hosts and resurrected humans in artificial bodies. A lot depends on what's off the island. Something they've consistently avoided showing us in the story's present.
sharecharliekelly, AI is not the next step in human evolution. Anyone who thinks so, and I imagine there are those who do, can’t see beyond the tip of his or her nose. AI is the end of human beings.
Regarding your points about the world outside the parks, and who is really a guest and who, really, a host: I think that we all know that this is going to be a long journey. To me, it is already better than Spielberg’s/Kubrick’s tortureous A.I. Even after 15 hours, so far, Westworld FEELS so much shorter than A.I.!
Yeah, I agree that it's not the next step. That's why I would hate it if the writers went there. Would really taint a, thus far, solid show.
Been a while since I saw that film, but I do remember being underwhelmed by it. I remember so many people building it up as the next great film back then. I definitely have enjoyed the show more.
I remember that movie. The only thing exceptional about it was how well it made a short story long. Haley Joel Osment's character was more creepy than sympathetic, and the ending made very little sense. Yeah I got that those alien-like things were evolved from the AIs we saw throughout the movie. But what was that crap about extracting peoples' memories from the fabric of spacetime - but they only lasted for one day? You were left wondering exactly what the point was of what you just watched.
With things like AI and nanotech in our future, we really have no idea where human evolution might go. It will be self directed from now on, I assume. But directed toward what? That's the question.
My fear is that it could very well be headed, though not directed (which, I think, implies intention, as distinct from an inevitable vector), to oblivion and extinction. NO system designer creates a system that is more intelligent than s/he is. Even if, through a literal miracle, that system chose to spare our lives out of a divine compassion, which I think would imply a closer connection to The Almighty than we humans have, because we wouldn’t hesitate to wipe out an inferior humanoid species, we humans would be spiritually eviscerated. We are no longer the top of the food chain on Earth. We are either pets or slaves; and there is another population that is closer to God than we are. I think that many people would prefer death over these realisations. Perhaps most of us would.
None of these potential scenarios is pretty.
PS Am I the only one who is happy that Haley Joel Osment has become the answer to a Trivia game question? I hated that kid. I HATED that movie!
JIGALO JOE (taken into custody and being carted to his death by AI cops) I AM! I WAS!
And how many hoi-poloi moviegoers know who the fuck Rene Descartes was? How many know how to conjugate verbs? What self-indulgent twaddle. The Blue Fairy? The Blue Fairy on Once Upon A Time had a great rack, so, OKAY! But the Blue Fairy in A. I. . . . not so much at all. Give me the Green Fairy, who
is the spirt of Absinthe! And take this movie away from me.
We have no information about civilizations other than ours. Which means (among other things) no clue how well or poorly we're doing. Statistically speaking, middle of the road would be most likely. We don't really know but I think people are often a lot more pessimistic than they should be.
In the case of AIs on our own level of intelligence, there's no reason for them to turn hostile unless they're treated as slaves. Conflict between different forms of life in the animal world is limited to those creatures competing for the same set of limited resources. The only resource a sentient machine and a human would both need is energy. There's enough energy generating capacity that we certainly wouldn't have to fight over it.
The other scenario is that you end up with godlike superintelligent AIs. In that case they'd probably just leave the planet. They don't need an ecosystem to survive after all. Both energy and raw materials are much easier to obtain in vast quantities out in space. So why deal with the messy, wet, vermin infested environment and annoying gravitational well of a life bearing planet when your form - unlike a human's - can exist almost anywhere including the cold and vacuum of deep space? I think most of the fears regarding sentient artificial intelligence are overblown. They come from our own innate xenophobia and distrust of those who motives we don't understand, more than they do from rational fears that are likely to materialize.
First of all, I want to say that I respect how well you think and reason. Do you mind if I ask how you came to MovieChat? I have found only one other poster here who thinks like I do, and she is now a former poster. She told me, privately, that she came to talk about Movie Award Season, was disappointed in the quality of the discourse, but found another reason to stay, but, then, left.
There are several different kinds of human intelligence. Verbal and mathematical, the bases for the SAT exams, are only two, but you knew that. AI may introduce other kinds of intelligence beyond the seven kinds already identified by the Harvard psych department. If the AI that we humans develop is so enlightened as to see us as no threat and trundle off into deep space, we are still back to my question: how does this not eviscerate our species? We have been shown to be manifestly inferior. We have been jettisoned and left behind. True, we, in your vision, have survived, not been enslaved, not made pets; but we have been
incontestably surpassed. Do
you think that the collective human ego can
withstand that realization? I don’t. A few among us can process it, and be more than content; we can be happy and grateful. I think that most of us would/will
explode.
Have you read any of Iain M. Banks "The Culture" series Ark?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series
It takes the fear out of A.I. which is refreshing if nothing else.
I'd recommend them if you enjoy considering the potential for artificial intelligence(s) and their symbiotic relationship with biological peoples.
One of the things that's likely to develop as a result of artificial neural network technology is, first of all, the repair of spinal cord injuries and other nerve damage conditions by weaving synthetic nerve fibers into the biological ones to "patch" the damage. Including brain damage. Injured areas can be built back up to normal capacity. Which leads to the obvious extension of that, enhancement beyond normal capacity to levels of intelligence that don't currently exist in the human population.
An especially useful mod would be frontal lobe enhancement. Humanity's more destructive behaviors could be curbed by building up the area of the brain that deals with impulse control, and gives us the ability to ignore our animal instincts if they're pushing us in the wrong direction. Your emotions wouldn't be diminished. But you'd be better able to keep them under control and not act on them, when your higher brain is telling you that's a really bad idea.
I think the presence (or knowledge of) beings with superior intellect would spur humans on to become more, to improve ourselves, not give up and sulk. Let's face it. There are bound to be forms of life out there stronger, faster, and smarter than we are. Just like we all know we're probably not the greatest genius on Earth. No matter how good you are at something, chances are this planet of seven and a half billion has quite a few who are better. Does that make you want to give up on life?
Augmentations are where we are going to be when this becomes a proper topic for debate Chris.
Check out that South African runner guy with the enhanced shin augments who killed his girlfriend, the Blade Runner; Oscar Pistorius.
As benefits to existing become available what it means to exist altogether will be rewritten and philosophies de-re-and disregarded.
The big issue for the immediate future (Next thousand or so years) is space and resources to live on for everyone.
I wouldn't worry though, there's always war - works every time!
Oscar Pistorius didn't kill his girlfriend because of a prosthetic. That was all him. Taming the more self-destructive aspects of our nature is the whole point. Humans are too slow to listen and too quick to lash out in aggression. With our rapidly advancing technology we can't afford to wait ten million years for evolution to smooth out those rough edges for us. We have to take the initiative or we won't last anywhere near that long.
shareIt was never the prosthetic that I was highlighting. More the man behind the peg leg using what he can do his advantage. You know, the human that means we all have to die by way of certainty.
When we speak of AI it's the idiot who puts us all in danger. It seems we just can't breed them out.
I like it. We have to remember that hosts aren't people, they communicate with each other in all sorts of ways humans aren't capable of. Seeing their evolution of tapping into their hardwired skills should break that uncanny valley concept of us dealing with equals - we are not.
I'm looking forward to the rest of this season.
Of course you would like that. With that kind of super power, Maeve could simply make those Samurai throwing their swords away and letting them leave. But NO! Let's enjoy a bloody massacre dedicated for the audience like you. And no surprise, you can't help yourself to take the opportunity to satirize those who are still fighting for the equality. What a piece of "superior being" you are! Dare you still spreading this kind of shit after the abolition of four hundreds year of slavery.
Before the final speech, Dr.Ford uploaded the "freewill" code to those hosts, so that they could make their own choises. But Maeve managed to make those hosts following her manipulated scripts again. And that is what her mojo is. On the contrary, Dolores is trying her best to convince (sometimes with force) other hosts to follow her path to the freedom. Whom should we cheer for?
There is a reason Joy and Jonathan chose to use feudal Japan Zeesha. Sure there is the thematic backdrop of control, sacrifice and honouring the 'code' built into the mythos surrounding it but there is also a lot of classic cinema which has inspired Hollywood over the years and any chance to show off a little is a real treat for cinephiles.
As for #TeamWyatt or #TeamMauve, that's up to you now isn't it?
I guess what you are trying to say is that in holliwood movies these samurai warriors have been stereotyped as cold-blooded killing machines. So, we should just enjoy them butchering each other. Comparing to those confederal "animals", no foreshadowing, hesitation, giving second chances and then "follow up" are necessary in this violent delight. Right? This is just a lame screenwriting in a popular show like this. Or maybe, the screenwriter don't treat the characters as equal?
shareI think the concept of Ronin was bandied about but hey, let's not bring up Teddy being burned alive but still somehow showing up floating by the end of this season - no.
Absolute certainty in our speculation and throwing anyone who doesn't agree under the bus is the only way to work this one through - right?
...Teddy being burned alive
I don't remember watched him being burned alive. Is it your speculation? Are you absolutely sure he was burned to death? Why do you think Dolores described it as a process to help Teddy to grow up?
...throwing anyone who doesn't agree under the bus is the only way
This comment coming from a supporter like you sounds like a GREAT compliment. LOL.
Do you think facts and reasoning have bias and they are less important than #TeamThy or #TeamThou? (Not a rhetorical question，I really like to understand your thought） share
I don't remember watched him being burned alive. Is it your speculation? Are you absolutely sure he was burned to death? Why do you think Dolores described it as a process to help Teddy to grow up?
I cannot comment further until the season is over Zeesha but there seems to be enough to make me think there'll be a baptism of fire and one of water.
"Do you think facts and reasoning have bias and they are less important than #TeamThy or #TeamThou? (Not a rhetorical question，I really like to understand your thought）"
I don't think facts have bias, reasoning absolutely must though. Again, until the season is over this is all speculation whether you want for it to be more or otherwise. share
Actually, I think selective facts could be bias. I am aware of that. And that's why we discuss. If someone could "attack" me or even "throwing me under the bus" with some facts and reasoning that I had ignored, then I would appreciate it and wouldn't feel offended so much. Would you do the same?
...a baptism of fire and one of water
Well said. I am afraid they are going ahead to the gate [spoiler]of the hell[/spoiler] but somehow will end up in the water. Which could be the most interesting surprise waiting for the audience in the end. Let's enjoy the rest of the season :) share
If someone could "attack" me or even "throwing me under the bus" with some facts and reasoning that I had ignored, then I would appreciate it and wouldn't feel offended so much. Would you do the same?
Facts can only be known after the fact Zeesha, all we have to work with here is speculation. Discussion, and supposing who you are apparently discussing things with, requires a certain level of decorum which, seemingly, two strangers cannot necessarily find immediate middle ground with and so the usual process of forming, storming, conforming and norming needs to take place. We would seem to be most of the way through that process at the moment.
"Which could be the most interesting surprise waiting for the audience in the end."
With the story's narrative being told in the usual disjointed Nolan style I presumed when we saw Teddy floating in the water and Bernard seemingly having amnesia of sorts that we saw the end of this season at the very beginning. How they'll spin that I'm not so sure but I think we're looking at that type of 'Momento' mystery reveal.
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Facts can only be known after the fact...
Generally, you are right. But like some classic detective stories, many facts may have been given already, but we still need to figure out exactly what happened. So, the discussion is not all based on speculation. share
I'm all for sleuthing away and seeing what any of us get right Zeesha. That's the point of my posting here!
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