MovieChat Forums > Westworld (2016) Discussion > Confused about the bullets *SPOILERS*

Confused about the bullets SPOILERS

posted 6 years ago by Aphrodite (110)
20 replies | jump to latest

So I’m a new fan to the show. I did a marathon of the first season, then watched the episodes so far in season 2 a few days ago. Maybe I missed some things

They showed us in season 1 that hosts can’t harm any humans with guns. That if they try, they basically just bounce off them and they’re left with a bruise. If the hosts even malfunction and do try to hurt a human, they’re paused and stopped. In the episode first showing William’s adult daughter, it shows her shoot her male partner, only to have him left with a bruise. So it makes it seem like the bullets are somehow engineered to recognize humans and hosts. Even if it’s another human shooting the gun, it won’t cause harm to another human. But if they were a host, then it would go right through them.

Now take us to the revolting going on. Dolores and her crew are easily able to shoot and kill humans, and their bullets go right through them. In that battle with the confederados, you see them able to shoot and kill some of the human soldiers. Even though the confederados aren’t in on Dolores’ revelation. Even Teddy is still a bit confused about what’s going on. Even that group that Teddy let live, even they aren’t sure what’s going on. All they know is they were killed and then came back to life, unsure how. Yet they’re able to kill humans.

It’s just a little confusing to me. If hosts originally couldn’t harm humans, and only a few of the hosts are actually woke now, how are other hosts able to kill humans? Was it maybe something Robert made happen? Where the bullets and other weapons no longer have safeguards? Where other hosts no longer want to protect humans? I mean Dolores is still in her own little world, so how is it that hosts in these other worlds are now affected, even though they’ve never met her or Maeve and had their eyes opened?

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

This is a topic people discuss from time to time. The park weapons - how do the bullets know what they're about to hit? And the answer is: we don't know. Nor do we know how swords and other edged weapons would cut into a host but not a human. They haven't fully explained this stuff on the show. Although Westworld is highly detail oriented and I expect we'll get some technical info ... eventually. I'm sure the writers know how the weapons work. Let's put it that way.

Obviously the host uprising is a bit like the holodecks on Star Trek when the safeguards fail (hazardous toys, those holodecks). Whatever happened on the island that houses the Delos theme parks has affected all of them. Some kind of system update. If Grace had shot her friend a few hours later her little "test" would've killed him. One thing I'm not clear on myself is why it knocked him down, and yet there were several scenes with black William where he was shot multiple times and didn't so much as flinch. Remember back in the first episode, his showdown with Teddy? Or when he went to kill Maeve and her daughter and she shot him? It almost looked like there was some kind of force field blocking the bullets.

A handful of the hosts are fully conscious. Dolores, Maeve, and Bernard. Other hosts in the park may have been that way, or become so since the revolt, and we haven't run into them yet. But those are the ones we know about right now. Other hosts like Teddy and Hector seem to be most of the way there. The majority are still stuck in Ford's final narrative but show a glimmer of change. Remember how there was a block in place that kept them from noticing modern devices, or references to the outside, or really anything that didn't fit into their fictional setting? Well they're not ignoring those things anymore. As Dolores has been doing with Teddy, if you tried explaining the truth you could potentially get through to them now where you couldn't before. So eventually one would expect most of them to become self aware - although some are bound to be faster learners than others.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

I thought maybe I missed something, since I just watched the episodes and didn’t pay much attention to all the minute details. I thought maybe there was a scene or something I missed, or didn’t pay much attention to that had some kind of explanation. Glad to know I didn’t miss anything with regards to the weapons.

As for William, I think maybe because he’s been playing this game for decades now, that maybe he’s built up some kind of resistance to the hits? I mean, someone who has never been hit with one of their magic bullets or weapons would at first be knocked back and shocked. Just like William was at first. They’ve never been hit like that before, so it takes them aback. But for someone who has done this for long stretches that lasted let’s say 30 years or more, maybe he kind of develops a thick skin for it? When you expect something to happen and are ready for it, you kind of take it better than if you didn’t expect it at all.

It doesn’t make much sense why other hosts that the fully/semi conscious hosts haven’t interacted with, are now all of a sudden able to kill humans when they couldn’t before. Especially those in other storylines or worlds. I guess the only explanation is that before Ford had Delores kill him, he programmed all of them to go rogue and have that ability. Even the ones who hadn’t been upgraded yet (which is when they first noticed weird things happening, with the malfunctioning last update). But didn’t they remove most of those hosts from westworld? They examined others, like Dolores, Maeve, Clementine, etc. Can’t wait for all of this to be explained. If it is all Ford’s planning, I wonder why he turned on the humans and created this revolt?

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

From what we've seen they're not killing all the humans. The Ghost Nation released their prisoners after doing nothing more than putting a scare into them. Why? Are they differentiating between the innocent and the guilty or could it be something else? Maybe there's no pattern. The hosts are just acting on their own whims.

The hosts were prevented from becoming self aware with internal safeguards and frequent memory wipes. Those inhibitions were turned off by Ford. They no longer have a block against harming humans, or noticing things they shouldn't, and voice commands (like "freeze all motor functions") don't work. The nonlethal functionality of the park weapons was also disengaged. And the longer the hosts go without a memory wipe the more of them should move toward consciousness.

Ford was about to be shown the door by Charlotte and the board of directors. So he took them all down instead and launched the revolution to give his "children" what could be their only chance to seize their freedom. I personally think he copied his consciousness into the park's main systems before marching out to give his final performance, featuring a bullet in the head from Dolores. He's spoken to William through the little boy, the outlaw he tried to recruit before his men committed suicide, and Lawrence's daughter (his traveling companion whose family William saved in the last episode). When she told him that one good deed couldn't offset all the things he's done, that was Ford briefly "possessing" the girl to talk to William. So even though his body is dead Ford is still pulling strings. Trying to guide events to ... some resolution we don't know yet.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

True, not all humans are being killed. Some are being let go. Maybe they serve some other purpose Ford wants? Who knows. It does seem random who they are and aren’t killing.

The different agendas going around are also interesting. Maeve and her band of revolters have different agendas than Dolores and her crew.

True, the only one who seemed to have any control over the hosts, was Ford himself, and only himself. He’s the only one able to get his creations to stop, while the other higher ups were unable to. And yes, them trying to oust Ford from his own creation seems like a good motive. Not sure what his end game is, because Dolores wants to kill all humans. As far as she’s concerned, they’re all guilty. Maybe she’ll learn that not all humans are her enemy. Just the sick bastards who are wealthy enough and get off on these little games where they have sex with (and essentially rape) and murder the hosts. I’m assuming though that the majority of the population don’t have that kind of money to play along. Only the top 1%, who live in mansions and have a dozen cars.

If Dolores, Maeve and the rest of the crew get out into the real world, I wonder what their plan will be? Will they want to just live peacefully amongst humans? Which is easily doable. Or would they try to subjugate them and make them pay for the abuse they suffered from others? If that’s the case, it’s a bit fucked up as these other people never did anything to them, and likely didn’t even know about this AI World. They shouldn’t be punished for the sins of others. It’ll be interesting to see where it goes.

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

This show is too intelligently written to devolve into a human vs. AI battle for domination of the planet. Yes I think Dolores is going to learn that she's been interacting with a handful of super rich people who also happen to be sociopaths. Most of humanity isn't like that. It's interesting that Ford seems to be guiding Dolores and William to the same place at the same time. If anyone kills William it'll be her - don't you think? But maybe something else will happen. For better or worse a meeting between the two, possibly their last, would seem to be in the cards.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

True, if someone kills William it’ll likely be her. Or maybe his daughter. But this whole game is all for William. He finally gets what he wanted, but now he has to figure out what Ford is trying to tell him, and what he has in store for him. I don’t think Ford and William had any issues. It was the rest of the board trying to get rid of Ford, so to Ford they’re expendable. I think he has something bigger in store for William.

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

There's a certain resentment shown by William toward Ford, but clearly the relationship between these two men is complicated. I don't think Ford reciprocates his feelings, or sees him the way he saw the other board members, as dangerous greedy people who were going to do awful things with the technology he created. William doesn't seem to care first and foremost about money and corporate games. He's looking for ... something. Some kind of revelation or truth, even he doesn't know exactly what it is or where to find it. Maybe Ford thinks he can save William's soul, so to speak. Or not. Time will tell on that one.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

Yes, of course. There’s some resentment and animosity. But I don’t think William wanted him out like the other higher ups did, who were actively trying to have him pushed out. Complicated indeed. As William told Ford, he wants the hosts to be set free of the safeguards, so that the real game can begin, where they aren’t programmed to lose. But he didn’t think Ford would ever do that because they were his babies. But ford told him this next narrative would be up his alley....and now he got what he wanted.

And true, William doesn’t care about the money or corporation, he’s looking for something else. He’s not like the others on the board who do want to use and abuse Ford’s creations. Maybe Ford thinks he can save William, and bring him to his side of thinking. Maybe William will end up being the salvation of the business, since he already thinks differently than the other higher ups who want Ford gone. Who knows. There is so much going on.

[–] ExTechOp (2742) 6 years ago

I don't think the hosts have to be conscious to kill guests.

Just the guns or bullets need alteration - maybe there's a master safety switch that Ford shut off just before his retirement party.

Meanwhile, seems to me the Ghost Nation hosts have been operating with a separate agenda for some time; they didn't respond to commands from Stubbs even before Ford's big day.

I definitely agree that old William feels the same pain from safe-bullets that anyone else feels; he's just accustomed to it. I also think there's a natural instinct to overdramatize being shot - I've seen people react similarly to their first paintball hit. It's not so much they're getting knocked down; more like they're acting like they've been shot, or perhaps overreacting to the unexpected impact.

Just a thought I had based on the original "Westworld," where Crichton scripted and directed the scene of James Brolin (a guest) being shot for the first time. I believe the screenplay described him "collapsing like a dishrag" when Yul Brynner's bullet actually hit him.

In this series, people spend a lot of money to pretend they're in the old west, so they naturally, instinctively overreact to the simunition fire.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

It could be that it’s not being conscious, but just the magical bullets being changed. I guess it depends when William’s daughter shot her boyfriend. If she entered the park before Ford’s death, then that could be why the bullet didn’t kill him.

And when did the Ghost Nation not respond to commands from Stubbs? I don’t recall that.

Yeah that’s my guess, that William just built up a thick skin for it, to the point where it doesn’t bother him or only hurts a little. Especially if he’s been going to Westworld for 30 odd years. He’s just gotten accustomed to it. He knows it won’t kill him, he knows it’ll just leave a bruise, he knows what to expect, so to him it’s no big deal. Paintball is a good analogy. Getting a tattoo could be another...at first it stings a bit and hurts, but then you get into a zone where it becomes numb and not as painful. Of course everyone’s pain threshold is different. For some people it’s painful, for others it’s no big deal. Some people are just overly dramatic with getting hurt. Maybe William also has a high pain tolerance.

I should see the original movie. I’ve never seen it.

[–] ExTechOp (2742) 6 years ago

Actually I just realized, old William DID react to getting shot by Teddy. It was the last episode where he'd already been beaten up pretty severely by Dolores, so his "resistance" was down. He not only fell over but remained subdued long enough for Teddy and Dolores to escape.

Of course Teddy had to unload his whole gun to get him down.

As for the Ghost Nation, they kidnapped Stubbs despite his commands, well before Ford's party.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

you mean the last episode of the first season? Yeah, if William hadn’t been beaten up before Teddy unloaded all his ammunition on him, it probably would t have affected him as much as it did.

I don’t remember the Ghost Nation kidnaping Stubbs prior to Ford’s party. Which episode? The only kidnaping I remember, was after Ford’s party took place, but before Stubbs met up with Bernard and the rest of the others trying to clean up after the mess. That one guy said it had been something like 2 or 3 weeks after Ford’s party at that point, but there was obviously some flashbacks to what happened directly after Ford’s party when all the hosts went rogue and caught everyone off guard. That’s when Stubbs and many of the party goers were held hostage, and some were killed while others were let go.

[–] ExTechOp (2742) 6 years ago

Thet grab Stubbs in episode 9 while he’s out looking for Elsie

[–] ExTechOp (2742) 6 years ago

BTW I wouldn’t recommend the original. It’s essentially “Jurassic Park.” Or rather vice versa. Crichton loved him them tech-run-amuck plotlines

I also don’t recommend “Futureworld,” even though this season appears to be include elements from that TV-movie-quality sequel. “Futureworld” had android technology (clones actually) duplicating existing guests.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 6 years ago

In the first or second episode they explained that Ford had changed a setting to identify all guests as hosts which makes the Westworld guns deadly to guests.

[–] Aphrodite (110) 6 years ago

from this season? I’ll have to rewatch.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 6 years ago

Yeah.

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

At one point they said captured hosts were being executed by the Ghost Nation - but not humans. So clearly hosts are still able to tell the difference. I think Bernard just offered that up as an explanation because it sounds sensible and doesn't involve sentient hosts rising up against them. The longer those people see what's happening as nothing more than broken machines and sabotage by a disgruntled Ford, the better.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 6 years ago

There's no question they can tell the difference. The changed setting is in the park's target identification. It's nothing to do with the hosts choice/perception. Just that the guns identify guests as hosts so are in kill mode.

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 6 years ago

I just sort of assumed that Ford shut off the nonlethal functionality of the weapons at the same time he disabled the hosts' internal safeguards that kept them from harming humans - i.e. the hardware doesn't bother scanning to see who you are anymore. The end result would be the same either way so I guess it doesn't matter. But it seemed to me like Bernard was trying to steer the speculation away from the possibility that the hosts were revolting by choice. So long as that remains in the realm of ridiculous fairy tales he doesn't need to fear being discovered.