MovieChat Forums > Westworld (2016) Discussion > People aren't understanding the MIB...

People aren't understanding the MIB...

posted 7 years ago by amberweiss82
68 replies | jump to latest

So...I've seen a lot of debate about MIB on here, and I don't know if I'm just crazy but it seems like a lot of people are misinterpreting his motives.

I don't believe he ever really went bad. I think that he felt like HE was in a loop in his own life and didn't know who he was. He was in a maze himself when he went to WW for the first time and it wasn't until he found Dolores that he finally reached the center of himself. He found purpose and meaning and and affirmation of his character. Falling in love with someone means having someone really understand you and be able to show you a true reflection of yourself. When he realized that she didn't recognize him or remember their adventure, it discredited him in what was his most pure moment to date. He had no witness, no one to validate his journey. He didn't want a programmed machine to spit out the right answers and blow smoke up his @$$.

The place they made him feel more alive and real than ever all of a sudden had a phoniness and he was on a mission to prove that this world is real. He wanted the hosts to fight back. It was no fun being the winner every time. I believe he somehow instinctively knew that in order for him to find his answers he was going to have to do some real damage. Really push his limits. If the hosts never become conscious then it doesn't matter.........but if they do.........and he can somehow make them alive.....then it's worth it. He saw it happen with Maeve and her daughter. We also saw in the scene with Dolores in the first episode he says "I want you to fight back."

At the end he gets shot and sees the hosts about to take over and he smiles so big. He was not trying to oppress them....he was trying to piss them off and hurt them enough that they come online in their own heads. He somehow through Maeve and her daughter realized that's what needed to happen.

I do not see him as villainous at all....but almost like The Dark Knight. He was what West World needed him to be....the guy that pushed all the boundaries and did the unpopular things that are misunderstood. He'd rather be the perceived villain but achieve his goal which was free will for the hosts, and validation for his sense of self in the park.

[–] Leo_ofRedKeep 7 years ago

I have no sympathy for the guy and, quite probably, no empathy at all either.
I really don't understand him, and I'm not sure if it's because he is too far away from me or simply a bad, fake character made out of some nonsense to put up a show.

[–] BirdmanT7 7 years ago

I have no sympathy for the guy and, quite probably, no empathy at all either.
I really don't understand him, and I'm not sure if it's because he is too far away from me or simply a bad, fake character made out of some nonsense to put up a show.

You just like to disagree with everyone that maybe make some logical points that somehow is above your bandwidth..lol

[–] Leo_ofRedKeep 7 years ago

You like to believe in promises, don't you?

Long may she reign http://i.imgur.com/BxJJSJZ.jpg

[–] BirdmanT7 7 years ago

You like to believe in promises, don't you?

I don't what you mean, but I do agree with the points of the person who posted this thread about MIB, it makes sense regardless of liked his character or not. MIB was in search of an answer in braking the hosts out of loop and his quest lead him down a dark path in the WW.

[–] marousha_n 7 years ago

It's refreshing to see someone that gets it. I am so tired of moronic posts and people that misunderstood the show and come to complain.

"Relics of ancient times. Lonely cenotaphs. Standing along that melancholy tideland."

[–] amberweiss82 7 years ago

I appreciate your feedback! I totally see why people feel the way they do but nothing in this show is that simple and nothing in this show is that "black and white."

[–] intrepidami 7 years ago

He doesn't have motives. He was created By Ford a long time ago to gain influence and cash in the outside world for Ford. All the other stuff is just an excuse for him to keep coming back for regular checkups and alterations to his looks..They just need him to come back constantly to age his body. It's sadly, that simple. In order to justify this, they had his back story be he was obsessed with Westworld.

It's going to basically boil down to that eventually, but you and others will have debated his faked motives for years.

[–] mmw_rocket 7 years ago

I'm the dude has at least one daughter and hosts were all mechanical underneath back when he started going to the park.

[–] intrepidami 7 years ago

And the concept that that could have been arranged escapes you? The android penis works, one would load it up with stored sperm, it has intercourse several times..viola..human baby! It's just a more fun way to get artificially inseminated.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

When he realized that she didn't recognize him or remember their adventure, it discredited him in what was his most pure moment to date. He had no witness, no one to validate his journey. He didn't want a programmed machine to spit out the right answers and blow smoke up his @$$.

You are right but what he did to Logan who was his real life future brother in law was before he realized that they (the host) tend to "forget" everything. His actions to Logan were vicious. Maybe he deserved some lash back but that just reflects on who william really was... MIB to dolores ".... he found himself..."

It was no fun being the winner every time.

We also saw in the scene with Dolores in the first episode he says "I want you to fight back."

yes but that just proves that he wanted a fair fight not necessarily sympathetic to hosts.

He was not trying to oppress them....he was trying to piss them off and hurt them enough that they come online in their own heads.

No. He was happy that now, if he or guest wins, that will be fair fight. and the result of the fight will be well earned, not a phony win...

I do not see him as villainous at all....but almost like The Dark Knight.

first of all the question of who is villain is subjective... He def didnt have best interest of host at heart. Like i said he wanted them to fight back because it gave his game a real sensation. the fear of losing is very euphoric.

Now.... Villain to whom? Humans? If yes then sure what Ford and Will wanted will end up getting you and me ultimately killed so yes they are the villain of my story about me...

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] rickymm3 7 years ago

The hosts shooting him meant that he was right when he told Logan that there was something different about Dolores and affirmed that all the time and energy he put into the park was justified

[–] navtej_kps 7 years ago

majority people understand it only few haters are going on and on and there's no point explaining someone who doesn't want to

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

I don't believe he ever really went bad.

His being "bad" is undeniable. He said it himself that he got a taste for the killing, and we see his humilation of Logan, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want the hosts to be more than they are. It doesn't mean that he lacks understanding, love, empathy, and compassion. Turning "bad" isn't black and white, there are shades of gray in everyone.

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

And he put on the black hat. Classic western trope and a callback (or whatever the phrase is) to his entrance onto the show.

[–] TRinzler 7 years ago

In of itself it could just be misdirection. He even admitted to Ford that he was playing the part of the villain but it's not clear how much he enjoyed it! Personally I think he was lacking in humanity rather than being evil per se. This lack of empathy for anyone, human or host, is what allowed to behave the way he did...

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

This lack of empathy for anyone, human or host, is what allowed to behave the way he did...

I disagree, he had empathy, just look at his reaction to Delores when they first travelled together. He had empathy and understanding, and that would have made the dark side he explored even more meaningful to him. Evil is as evil does, even if he's only doing it to robots, it's what it meant to him that counts.

[–] TRinzler 7 years ago

Even 30 years ago when he traveled with Logan and Dolores, he ONLY had feelings for Dolores. He didn't care about anyone else. When he saw her back in her loop he accepted that Logan was correct all along about her being just another host, programmed to lead him on a wild goose chase.

However, as tMiB says to Dolores (talking about himself), during his forlorn search for her he found himself...tMiB is who he always was, William was the "mask" he'd created to fit into society by appearing decent, trustworthy, honest etc. This behaviour is typical of pyscho/socio paths...

[–] sandifay62 7 years ago

That's how I see him. He fell in love with the Dolores he created in his mind. Once he saw her as something that wasn't really "his" he resented her. So everything he's doing is all about his own needs and desires, but he thinks hhe's some kind of hero. Just like Ford.

This is their world and all other humans are employees or rivals. Through this park, they found themselves and found that they are Gods.

[–] VittoriaVetra 7 years ago

I agree.

[–] VittoriaVetra 7 years ago

he ONLY had feelings for Dolores. He didn't care about anyone else.

I seem to remember him initially not wanting to hurt others, even going out of his way to help others. Which greatly frustrated Logan.

But yes, he only ever loved Dolores.

[–] TRinzler 7 years ago

Watch it again. He was pretending...

...just as he had been pretending for most of his life out in the real world.

William wanted to play the hero so he initially acted like one, however the park revealed his true nature.

Logan knew this would happen which is why be brought him along. He was frustrated because it was taking so long for William to drop his guard, let loose and be himself. Of course, Logan didn't expect him to turn out to be a total psycho!

[–] danloki 7 years ago

He said himself he realised he was evil. Also, did you forget his wife committed suicide because of him. And really, as pointed out he sent his future BiL out into the desert under a blistering sun nude and tied to a horse. Hardly the act of a saint.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

He said himself he realised he was evil.

^^ this..

I am baffled that people are choosing to ignore that and that "he found himself" while showing his most vile action. What is that meant to show? That he was not really a bad person?

Of course a case can be made that he was that way because of some deep rooted problem like all other bad guys but so far we dont know anything about his real life except for that he has an organization that helps people.

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] danloki 7 years ago

He also said to Teddy very early on 'I guess you could say I was born here' which I took to mean exactly what you said - he found his real self there. Logan knew what was hiding under the milky bar kid facade before William even realised.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

Logan knew what was hiding under the milky bar kid facade before William even realised.

^ this and that is why, I think, he chose him to bring to the park to unleash that horror and not some other friend.

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] Leo_ofRedKeep 7 years ago

I don't buy any of it. It was the biggest failure of the show.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

Good for you then. If the show/ dialogues couldnt convince you then they obviously failed you.

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] cashmccall 7 years ago

WTF, how is a guest at a park playing a video game with machines, evil? You guys are way off base. The imagined "pain" he caused the robots was programmed. Duh. You all are buying that the robots are human. Where did you get that idea? The whole desire that he wanted the robots to fight back proves that he feels the video game is rigged in his favor, that's all it is.

His smile at getting his arm blown off makes no sense at all. So someone programmed the robots to fight back, and what, kill real humans? That's absurd, that's not "fighting back", that's not making the games more real, and it's not becoming human. It is a machine, killing you, which is not what the MIB or anyone else wanted. It's no different than being run over by a driverless car. It's dumb.

One poster in this thread implied the MIB was a robot, programmed by Ford to believe he was real. That actually makes more sense than anything else, and it explains a lot. Yet I highly doubt that the future of the show is the robot MIB going back to corporate headquarters in the real world posing as a human.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

WTF

Really? Can you not say all that without revealing what you REALLY are thinking?

I am entitled to my opinion, you are to yours. I am not trying to convince you, You should try that too.

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] Madeline5 7 years ago

I believe that William is an AI, playing his part as all the others, including Ford himself.

Why?

It takes time to evolve.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

Good. If so we will find out in season 2.

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] cashmccall 7 years ago

Possible, MIB could be Ford's masterpiece, plus it keeps him safe from being fired by the company. Remember when the MIB was approached by his underling when he was almost hanged, he told her to leave Ford alone and not bother him (the MIB) with such machinations.

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

If everyone is a host, then it doesn't matter if they are or not. That would be bad storytelling. For this reason alone, but also for the reasons actually shown to us in the show, we have to trust that both Ford and William are not hosts.

[–] TRinzler 7 years ago

There are a many clues that tMiB isn't a host. Some obvious, others less so...

He ages.
He is known to other guests as someone (famous?) outside the park.
He is on the board of Delos.
The senior members of staff (e.g. Stubbs) know who he is and treat him as a V.I.P authorizing all his "in park" requests.
He doesn't care about Ford or his narratives because he believes the true author of the park was Arnold.
He tells Ford this to his face, because Ford chooses to share a drink with him to ask him about why he is searching for the maze. If tMiB is actually a host programmed by Ford then he already knows the answer rendering the scene pointless...

None of these provide conclusive evidence he isn't a host but together they imply he isn't one. Either that, or everyone is a host, which makes being a host meaningless as you pointed out. Ergo, tMiB is human.

[–] ThinkBfourUSpeak 7 years ago

^ this..

------Pulling someone down will never help you reach the top -----

[–] Heartofheart 7 years ago

The imagined "pain" he caused the robots was programmed. Duh. You all are buying that the robots are human. Where did you get that idea? The whole desire that he wanted the robots to fight back proves that he feels the video game is rigged in his favor, that's all it is.

i like what you're saying...though you could be a little gentler in your delivery :).

_ _ _ _

host, pulease.

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

WTF, how is a guest at a park playing a video game with machines, evil?

Because he tells us that it does and we see it in his in actions. He believes in that place, he believes in the consciousness he saw in Delores, and we see his enjoyment as he indulges in cruelties that he wouldn't get away with in the real world.

[–] danloki 7 years ago

Duh. You all are buying that the robots are human.

Who is buying that they're human. We're discussing William and what he himself said about being evil. Pay attention. Maybe this is why you disliked the show so much. You have goldfish brain.

[–] cashmccall 7 years ago

i like what you're saying...though you could be a little gentler in your delivery :).

Yeah, I'm saying that the MIB thinking or saying that what he does is evil, is dumb, not interesting and not logical. You buying it is also illogical from my view. Yeah, my view.

[–] danloki 7 years ago



I dont care if you think my PoV is illogical. Knock yourself out.

[–] Heartofheart 7 years ago

You buying it is also illogical from my view. Yeah, my view.

this is very presumptuous ;).
_ _ _ _

host, pulease.

[–] cashmccall 7 years ago

Sometimes.

You know that old saying that "luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"? They use to say that a lot in High School and every time I had to sit there in silence and listen to that quote, I alway added in my head as they said it, "sometimes."

[–] Flosive 7 years ago

You know that old saying that "luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"? They use to say that a lot in High School and every time I had to sit there in silence and listen to that quote, I alway added in my head as they said it, "sometimes."

All that really tells us is that you've always been a pessimist, a downer.

[–] cashmccall 7 years ago

Disagree. The quote speaks to the idea that there is no such thing as "luck" as a spontaneous phenomena, or if you just wait for luck, you'll never have it. That's the real pessimism. It also implies that hard work and preparation always results in reward, or luck, and that just isn't true.

What your post says about you is that you are a shallow thinker, a reactionary, judgmental and practice internet shaming.

[–] jasonmovieguy (182) 6 years ago

His wife got CANCER! God, why are you people missing this?? She did NOT kill herself.