MovieChat Forums > United 93 (2006) Discussion > Why they say american 11 was still in th...

Why they say american 11 was still in the air and didnt hit wtc?


when it did hit the wtc quite a while before they said this, how could it still be in the air?

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Who the f_uck is "they?" Flight control? The Illuminati? Himmler's used toenails? Let me guess. It means 9/11 is an inside job, right?

Details no doubt to follow.

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"they" is the FAA. There are recordings of them saying flight 11 was not the plane that crashed into the tower and was still in the air and on the way to Washington. This was shown in this movie. It's an honest question so I don't see why you'd react with so much hostility and just assume they're talking about a conspiracy theory. Why don't you just answer the question they asked?

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[deleted]

Yeah I've seen the reports of that situation from the Air Traffic Controllers. It was an error they made in assessing the situation and was dismissed and corrected to "Flight 77" within about half an hour.

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There are recordings of them saying flight 11 was not the plane that crashed into the tower and was still in the air and on the way to Washington. This was shown in this movie. It's an honest question so I don't see why you'd react with so much hostility and just assume they're talking about a conspiracy theory. Why don't you just answer the question they asked?


This is quite simply because the idea of someone crashing a passenger plane into a building was incomprehensible to these guys, that and CNN reported that it was a "small plane" that hit the tower first.

OHHH GOOOD FOR YOU!!

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the flight controllers were confused because they couldn't imagine professionally piloted jumbo airliners would veer hundreds of miles off course and slam into skyscrapers. since it hadn't landed at any airports, their logical assumption was that the plane must still be in the air.

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there was an massive amount of confusion and misinformation going around that morning, Greengrass was trying to convey that.

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That was a great part of the movie. The bit where the FAA guys are looking at the WTC and trying to work out where the plane that hit it came from and figure out if it was flight 11, the confusion over Delta 1989 etc. They really brought home was a frantic and confusing experience it was before the reality hit home.

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I agree, also they thought initially that it was a small (cessna?) type plane that had hit the North Tower

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And just because you hear a plane may have crashed, you can't just assume it is a flight you maybe can't contact or see. Believe it or not, all the time major jets will "go missing" for a short time.

Don't forget, at any time, there are 5,000+ planes in the air.

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there was an massive amount of confusion and misinformation going around that morning, Greengrass was trying to convey that.


Exactly, every person who got the news was like "A *hijacking*?" Nobody could believe it. Before 9/11, we had not had to deal with this problem. One character made the comment that the last hijacking was 40 years ago. I don't know which one he referred to exactly, but it could have been DB Cooper, where no one was injured in the end. It certainly wasn't in the realm of possibility to the characters that it could have been multiple middle eastern terrorists. The situation of 9/11 was just incomprehensible as it went on, and before it was even over nobody could understand exactly what happened.

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I believe that the plane they thought was still in the air and heading for Washington D.C. was actually Flight 77, the one that hit the Pentagon. For some reason though, they initially thought it was still Flight 11.

'Wild for to hold, though I seem tame'

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i have a question are you saying when you said in side job you mean as in one of our pepole betrayed us telling them ( The Terrrests) were to hit and how to do it to keep the police and other goverment law enforcments off track am i right?

Bond James Bond

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i have a question are you saying when you said in side job you mean as in one of our pepole betrayed us telling them ( The Terrrests) were to hit and how to do it to keep the police and other goverment law enforcments off track am i right?

"Inside job" as in a lot of paranoid people believing their own US government are behind 9/11/01, and George Bush and Dick Cheney and others are the masterminds. From "controlled demolitions" to those going too far in saying it didn't happen at all.

They can't accept that it was a terrorist attack from the outside.

We are mere whisperings of a heartfelt elegy

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I used to say I do not trust the government

Bond James Bond

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Gary-161 is just a troll. If you don't believe me, check his previous posts.

Do you think they're cognizant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@sterds

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One day changed the whole world from what we remeber and loved kids would see the copit and stuff

Bond James Bond

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>>Gary-161 is just a troll.

Thanks for the thought. Long may you restrict them to one a day.

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[deleted]

I wondered this as well. My assumption is that it was due to a horrible lack of communication and just outright confusion. Perhaps the message was delayed, and when they said it was still in the air they were reading off of older data, who knows.

One thing I do know, is that arguing about the whole conspiracy theory thing does nobody any good. Personally, I could not trust George W. Bush as far as I could throw him, and I am a pretty weak person. But the real attention needs to be paid to WHY this would happen. As much as people seem to not want to admit it, these men did this for a reason. Yes, it was horrific and awful. But it was not one crazy man flying a plane into a building. It was an incredibly well organized operation performed by a large group of men who clearly had reasoning of some sort. Instead of conspiring (as tempting as it may be) I think that people need to ask themselves precisely what America has done to make a group such as this hate them to such an extent. The truth is that people don't want to hear their reasons, which is understandable, but I think that without examining how and why this occurred, we will not be able to prevent it from happening again.

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I was wondering this too, it's just never explained in the movie. Why was it mistaken in real life, and why did American 11 be off the grid for that long? What did the real people say about it?

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The main problem was the simulations that were runing that day. Causing phantom blips to show up on random radar screens. An ATC could have easily mistaking one of these as Flight 11 if it was in the same general area and heading.

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And why, exactly, would ATC be seeing phantom blips that were generated for military radar?

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You obviously know a lot about what was going on that day.

The phantom blips were part of the drill they were running with the Canadian military on a faked Russian invasion. The simulators were overlayed over the real radar to check ATC operators accuracy in detecting anomalies.

Do you think they're cognizant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not poor b@sterds

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there was an massive amount of confusion and misinformation going around that morning, Greengrass was trying to convey that.


This.

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Your post is absolutely, 100% bullcrap. Don't make comments on something you know absolutely nothing about.
Sincerely, a retired air traffic controller that was working at one of the East Coast Air Route Traffic Control Centers that was deeply involved in the activities on 9-11.

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So, you're saying this never happened?
http://911blogger.com/news/2012-03-22/real-world-or-exercise-did-us-mi litary-mistake-911-attacks-training-scenario
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Guardian

Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards

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I also find it rather strange that this is the first and ONLY post you've ever created on this site. Shill account much?

Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards

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What I was referring to is that "blips" are not inserted into any FAA radar system. I cannot speak for NEAD or any military, but I also don't believe they "insert blips" into any of their systems. During the many exercises I have been involved in, if there is to be any type of live "enemy" this role is often played by a contract company that flies Lear Jets as the "targets". During any exercises that may involve real intercepts, the FAA has controllers that serve as "trusted agents"; they know who the flights are, what their flight paths are, any other identifying information. These people will not reveal any information to the exercise participants but if there is a safety need to notify the participants (in the air or on the ground) of the actual information, the "trusted agent" is the person the military goes to.

Many of these exercises don't really involve many actual aircraft, but are done as a "table top" exercise, where a lot of the exercise progresses like a board game. In exercises in which there are actual assets in the air, the exercises are done off of the coast, in the military "Warning Areas". ANY flights that may be planned to fly over land are tightly restricted to very well-defined routes, corridors, restricted areas, etc.

In other words, the party responsible for the Nation's national airspace, the Federal Aviation Administration, has complete control and knowledge of all exercise details.

No phantom "blips" are generated.

Except in a small number of very well-defined and well-controlled areas is any actual live fire done. In most exercises of this scale, of which there are quite a few every year, aircraft are NOT even armed.

No one understood the significance of the first 2 aircraft being lost on radar. Losing aircraft targets, especially 14 years ago, was not uncommon. Transponders fail. Air traffic sectors above 18,000 feet do not monitor "raw radar", as all aircraft above 18,000 feet are required to have operating transponders for tracking. When a transponder would fail, a controller would push a button to display "raw radar". This presents a lot of clutter, from ground, from weather, even from large flocks of birds. A controller would start from the last known position of the aircraft, then look forward along the route of flight the aircraft was supposed to be flying. Eventually a controller would identify a "primary target" (the raw radar return) that appeared to be the flight with the inoperative transponder. Via position reporting and verification between controller and pilot, positive identification is reestablished. Or a controller would issue a 30 degree turn to the pilot, then observe the target executing that turn. This would also provide positive identification.

In a circumstance of a transponder being turned off, the flight veering well off of its filed route, and loss of radio communications, it gets very difficult to determine the position of an aircraft. Though not common, this would happen on occasion before 9-11. There were procedures that provided a safe path for the aircraft until communications and/or radar identification were re-established. Back in 2001, a worst-case scenario that was expected was that the aircraft crashed.

The first 2 aircraft disappeared from the scopes and radios at different ATC facilities. There was no immediate way for anyone to put 2+2 together to understand what could have been occurring. When the first aircraft flew into the WTC, it took some time and communications to realize that this was one of the missing airliners. When the second one hit, it became clear to all authorities what was happening.

Sometime during that point, the other 2 aircraft had their transponders turned off and communications from the cockpit ceased. The FAA was frantically trying to determine how many other aircraft might be involved. In addition to #3 and #4, there were a number of other aircraft in the system that had lost communications with the FAA. I believe the number was greater than 6, but less than 12. Again, given the technology, this was NOT uncommon. Communications were always reestablished, but it sometimes took many minutes to do that.

#3 slammed into the Pentagon. By that time, #3 had been tentatively ID'd, but not before it was too late to take any action. #4, UAL93, was the one aircraft that was positively IDd as being hijacked, its location somewhat pinpointed, and a threat assessment placed the potential target to be downtown DC.

So why no military intercept? The participants in the military exercise were neither armed not anyway near where #s 3 and 4 were. The closest military unit that could be scrambled was at Andrews, and the planes were not armed nor ready for an immediate response. 2 fighters were launched with the intention of ramming the airliner. However, there are discrepancies in the accounts as it appeared the DC Air National Guard unit did not learn that UAL93 was hijacked until after it had crashed.

You have to remember that in 2001, the existential military threat was Russia. All air defenses were trained and position to defend from an external attack. There had never been any significant thought regarding attacks from within our borders.

"Vigilant Guardian" was just a normal military exercise that really had no bearing on what may or may not have happened. If anything, many serious investigations have concluded that because the exercise was occurring, NORAD's responses were possibly quicker than if there was no exercise. All of the information in that link to the conspiracy site is just a bunch of background noise. All of that can be written in a way to sound suspicious, but in-depth analysis shows that that information is just superfluous to what the reality of the events were.

Many of the problems in communications, procedures, etc., that occurred during 9-11 (aviation-wise) have been addressed. Were there to be another event like that, recognition and response would be much quicker and more effective.

The US experienced something that had never happened before, was not prepared for and did its best, at that time, in dealing with the confusion.

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Thank you for the lucid, detailed response. But I still have doubts about what happened that day. Since I'm not in a position to positively confirm or deny anything, I'll just have to live in doubt.

That being said, you should never use the same login name on different sites; https://twitter.com/gewhiteva
P.S. the only search result that is actually mine is for imdb. I guess it's a popular alias.

Do you think they're cognisant of how bad they got it?
Lets hope not, poor b@stards

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I think that people need to ask themselves precisely what America has done to make a group such as this hate them to such an extent.


I never did $hit to the *beep* And I'm sure the 2,000+ innocent people on the planes and in the buildings didn't either.

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^Potty mouth alert

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A little mistake in the staged atack from inside.

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And hoe convinient all the miscommunication. Please open your eyes. The same president let everyone believe irak had nukes.

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