MovieChat Forums > United 93 (2006) Discussion > Plane dialogue faked?

Plane dialogue faked?


How much of the script was fake in the plane?

Apart from hearing snippets of conversations in the background over the phones, you still wouldn't hear, for example, the conversations going on in the back of the plane as they're looking for weapons to attack the terrorists with, so why is the film so revered if there's so much that's made up?

And before the final 20 minutes, I found the film a mostly tedious affair.

Dom Robinson
Editor, http://DVDfever.co.uk

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Well, Dom, if you were making this movie just how are you supposed to portray what happened in the back of the plane if there weren't any microphones or recordings? It's a movie, sheesh, use some common sense.

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No need for sarcasm, mate.

Why it is such a revered film, then, if a lot of it is just made up?

Dom Robinson
Editor, http://DVDfever.co.uk

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I agree. Most of it is made up and is therefore false.

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SOme of the dialog from the back of the plane was taken from the various phone calls that were made. Other dialog was created for the movie. The sequence of events from the cockpit was constructed from the CVR and FAA recordings. The dialog from the en route centers and other FAA facilities was NOT made up and was recreated from interviews from the people THAT WERE THERE.....sheesh.....

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Given all that was unfolding earlier in the movie, I find the fact that you found only its final 20 minutes engaging to be utterly baffling.

But that's just me.

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everything was faked, it was a false flag.

Kamal Obeid
S.E. Structural Engineer
"Structural engineers and other building professionals need to understand that these buildings did not fail the way they are claimed to have failed."

Scott Grainger
P.E., Forensic Fire Protection Engineer
"Structural steel frame high-rise buildings simply do not collapse due to fire."

Ed Munyak
P.E., 25-Year Fire Protection and Mechanical Engineer
"Even one global collapse would have been extraordinary, but to have 3 occur in one day was just beyond comprehension."

David Chandler
B.S Physics, M.S. Mathematics
"People with scientific and engineering backgrounds are looking at the 3 WTC collapses, and what they see is very definite evidence of explosive demolition, as opposed to a "natural" catastrophe."

Jerry Lobdill
B.S.Ch.E., Physicist/Chemical Engineer
"All the eyewitness testimony and video evidence supports only controlled demolition as the cause of destruction for all 3 WTC buildings."

Robert Podolsky
M.S., Physicist/Engineer
"All 3 WTC buildings fell way faster than they would have had there been any resistance from the lower part of the building."

Gery Warner
P.E. Mechanical Engineer
"Molten aluminum is silver. It looks like mercury. The molten metal pouring out of the South Tower is indicative of molten iron, not aluminum.”

William Brinnier
25-Year Architect
"Not hit by a plane, with small fires and little damage from debris, there was just no logical explanation for Building 7 to come straight down through what was the path of greatest resistance in under 7 seconds."

Dan Barnum
FAIA, High-Rise Architect
"The tops of the buildings were basically disintegrated."

Frank Cullinan
P.E., Civil Engineer
"It was shocking how fast the buildings collapsed. Tens of thousands of structural connections had to fail not only nearly simultaneously, but in sequential order.”

Anthony Szamboti
B.S.M.E., Mechanical Engineer
"The tons of molten metal under just the three WTC buildings that collapsed made me realize that what we're being told about how they collapsed is false."

Casey Pfeiffer
S.E. Structural Engineer
"Even if a floor were to collapse it still wouldn't be able to collapse all of the connections simultaneously at the rate that it did without secondary explosions."

William Rice
P.E., Civil/Structural Engineer
"Watching Building 7 collapse in under 7 seconds, after watching the Twin Towers collapse, I think most anyone would recognize these as controlled demolitions."

Steven Jones
Ph,D., Physicist, Former Brigham Young Univ. Professor
"Molten metal in the basements of all three buildings. What is this molten metal? Direct evidence of the use of thermite."

David Gregg
Ph.D., Chemical Engineer 30 years at Livermore Laboratories
"The only way that's known that a carbonaceous material can cause steel, or iron oxide to turn into a molten metal is in a blast furnace. And that's very different than what we had."

Kevin Ryan
B.S. Chemistry, Former Mgr. Underwriters Laboratories
"Thermite -if it was present at the World Trade Center, and created this molten metal that so many witnesses and photographic evidence shows would also explain potentially the fact that fires could not be put out at Ground Zero."

Jody Gibbs
35-Year Architect
"The Twin Towers fell at a speed which can only occur if the vertical structure has been removed."

Robert Kim Ireland
B.S.Ch.E., Chemical Engineer
"3 buildings collapsed on 9/11 but there were only 2 planes, that means the third building, WTC 7, had to collapse for some other reason."

Jason Cheshire
B.S.Ch.E., Chemical Engineer/Metallurgist
"1400º hot spots at the WTC for over a week indicates that there was something very hot going on below the surface."

Kathy McGrade
B.S., Materials Engineering
"In an office fire, you cannot generate enough heat to melt steel."

Mark Basile
B.S.Ch.E., 25 Years in Materials Analysis
"I've independently seen thermitic activity within 2 separate independent samples of world trade center dust. All of the characteristics of the micro-spheres tell me that thermite was used in melting those steel beams."

Robert Podolsky
M.S., Physicist/Engineer
"All 3 WTC buildings fell way faster than they would have had there been any resistance from the lower part of the building."

Niels Harrit
Ph.D., Chemistry
"A new investigation is needed that includes looking for remaining explosives and
thermitic materials in the WTC dust."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddz2mw2vaEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5UyynjxAyw&t=2s

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All liars, and nothing to do with UA Flight 93!

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All liars, and nothing to do with UA Flight 93!


Of course it as! If the twin towers were demolished using explosives then the official story of UA Flight 93 would also be bullsh!t...

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But they WEREN'T demolished with explosives, and the passengers on US Flight 93 DID revolt against the hijackers!

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Oh great a load of opinions from bell ends who are talking well outside of their area of expertise and ignore available evidence. I especially enjoy David Chandlers one - I think what he means to saund is that are looking at it and excepting that the in depth report from 200 of the worlds leading experts on high rise collapse is correct, yet a minixpscule percentage of those that look at it aren't because that is what always happens. Either the likes of A&E are massively and vastly incompetent at getting their point across of the scientific community simply doesn't buy their brand of BS because of all the people eligible to sign their petition so far less than 0.01% have. I can find more doctors that support quackery like homeopathy then they can produce supporters to their nonsense.

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The same David Chandler that made NIST change their report and actually admit freefall?

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NIST clarified the detail within their report - its called good science - and doesn't change the fact that a) the guy is a high school teacher who knows precisely zip about audio forensics and b) I'm betting freefall doesn't mean what you think it means - simple question, why do you think its important?

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a) the guy is a high school teacher who knows precisely zip about audio forensics and b) I'm betting freefall doesn't mean what you think it means - simple question, why do you think its important?


A teacher that as made a mockery out of the fraudulent mess that is the NIST report.

Why is freefall important? I will explain freefall for you and what it means:

Galileo was the first to describe the amazing fact that, apart from air resistance, all objects fall at the same "rate." If you have not experienced this fact directly, try dropping a large rock and a pebble side by-side. The rate we are referring to is not a "speed," because for a falling object the speed is constantly changing. The rate we are talking about is actually the "rate of increase of speed," how quickly the speed builds up, called acceleration. The acceleration achieved by all falling bodies, apart from air resistance, is called the "acceleration of gravity."

Gravity causes freely falling objects to increase their speed by about 32 ft/s per second. (The awkward unit, feet per second per second is commonly abbreviated ft/s2.) When an object is dropped, the speed is initially zero, but it immediately starts speeding up. After 1 second its speed will be 32 ft/s. After 2 seconds its speed will be 64 ft/s. Etc. 32 ft/s2 is an approximation. The "acceleration of gravity" actually varies slightly from place to place. In New York City it is 32.159 ft/s2.

Isaac Newton showed that the acceleration of an object is governed by its mass and the net force acting on it. (If several forces are acting at once they are combined to give a "net" force.) If the downward acceleration of a falling object equals the acceleration of gravity, then the net force is the gravitational force alone; any other forces must add up to zero.

What if a heavy object falls through other objects, breaking them as it goes? Newton's third law says that when objects interact, they always exert equal and opposite forces on each other. Therefore, while an object is falling, if it exerts any force on objects in its path, those objects must push back, slowing the fall. If an object is observed to be in freefall, we can conclude that nothing in the path exerts a force to slow it down, and by Newton's third law, the falling object cannot be pushing on anything else either.

When the top section of a building collapses one would expect the falling section to crash into the lower section and exert a large force on it, like dropping an anvil on your toe. A typical controlled demolition exploits this fact: the crushing force of the falling section of the building contributes to the demolition, and reduces the amount of explosives that are needed. However, amazingly, this is not what happened when Building 7 "collapsed" on 9/11.

We know that the falling section of Building 7 did not crush the lower section of the building because the top section of Building 7 fell at freefall. It didn't just fall at something close to freefall. It fell for about 2.5 seconds at a rate that was indistinguishable from freefall. If the falling section of the building had crushed the lower section, the lower section would have pushed back with an equal but opposite force. But that would have slowed the fall. Since the fall was not slowed in the slightest, we can conclude that the force of interaction was zero... in both directions.

How can this be?

There were explosions in Building 7 heard by many witnesses throughout the day. One such explosion is recorded in a video clip where several fire fighters are gathered around a pay phone calling home to assure their families they are alright. Suddenly they are startled by a very loud, unmistakable explosion. This is one of the Building 7 explosions that occurred long before it fell.

Shortly before the ultimate collapse of the building the east penthouse and the columns beneath it suddenly gave way. NIST (the government agency assigned to investigate the building collapses) attributes the collapse of the east penthouse to the failure of a single column, in a complex scenario involving thermal expansion of beams supporting the column. But it is much more likely that at least two and possibly three supporting columns were "taken out" simultaneously. Three columns supported the east penthouse. One of our German colleagues has pointed to evidence that the east penthouse fell through the interior of the building at close to freefall, evidenced by a ripple of reflections in the windows as it fell. Yet the exterior of the building retained its integrity.

NIST claims that the collapse of their one key column led to a progressive collapse of the entire interior of the building leaving only a hollow shell. The collapse of the building, seen in numerous videos, is described by NIST as the collapse of the "facade," the hollow shell. They have no evidence for this scenario, however, and a great deal of evidence contradicts it. After the collapse of the east penthouse there is no visible distortion of the walls and only a few windows are broken at this time. Had the failure of interior columns propagated throughout the interior of the building, as asserted by NIST, it would surely have propagated to the much closer exterior walls and distorted or collapsed them. (Major crumpling of the exterior walls, by the way, is exactly what is shown in the animations produced by NIST's computer simulation of the collapse.) But the actual videos of the building show that the exterior remained rigid during this early period. At the onset of collapse you can see in the videos that the building suddenly goes limp, like a dying person giving up the ghost. The limpness of the freefalling structure highlights by contrast the earlier rigidity.

Furthermore, there are huge pyroclastic flows of dust, resembling a volcanic eruption, that poured into the streets following the final collapse of the building. If what we saw was only the collapse of the facade, why was the pyroclastic flow not triggered earlier when NIST claims the collapse of the much more voluminous interior occurred? And why did the west penthouse remain to fall with the visible exterior of the building? Its supporting structure clearly remained to the very end and was "taken out" along with the rest of the building support all at once. NIST is scrambling to find a plausible scenario that will allow it to escape the consequences of what is plainly visible. (If you have not seen the collapse of Building 7, find it on YouTube and watch for yourself. For most people simply watching it collapse is all it takes. Most people are not stupid. Most people can recognize the difference between a demolition and a natural building collapse with nothing more being said. If you have never seen the collapse of Building 7 you might also stop and ask yourself why the mainstream media did not repeatedly show you this most bizarre event as it did the Twin Towers.)

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A teacher that as made a mockery out of the fraudulent mess that is the NIST report.

More like a high school teacher who COMMITTED fraud to blame the US Government on an attack carried out by Al-Qaida. This is a man who wants people to think the fires in the towers were small, just because Edna Cintron stood in the hole briefly before jumping to her death, when in reality they were massive and growing. Just more evidence that the SO-CALLED "9/11 truth" cults don't give a rat's ass about truth.



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This is a man who wants people to think the fires in the towers were small, just because Edna Cintron stood in the hole briefly before jumping to her death, when in reality they were massive and growing.


Small fires with black smoke indicating oxygen starved fires which means the fires was not intense or was even close to the temperatures to demolish a building into dust floor by floor.

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http://www.backwoodsweb.com/fire1.jpg

Is this raging fire in the open 'oxygen starved' then?
How about this one - does it look like a non intense O2 starved fire?
http://blogs.reuters.com/photo/files/2010/08/RTXS4ZZ.jpg

Black smoke means that the fire is often burning very intensely - so intensely it is using up the surrounding oxygen very rapidly - it is not a sign of a cool burning low O2 fire - it is often frequently the opposite. Nice try though.

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Firefighters reached the impact zone on the south tower, there is radio transmission of their testimony. The firefighter said they were small minimal fires and could be put out, minutes later the building started exploding into dust floor by floor.

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Firefighters reached the impact zone on the south tower,


No, they were BELOW the impact zone. You people ignore that aspect of the radio transmission.

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Thanks for the long reply - this will be interesting!!!

Lets start with the free fall shall we - I'll explain this in nice simple terms because I'm guessing science isn't a strong point of yours.

Lets start with this - because it gets to the heart of why truthers have such a poor grasp of simple logic -

"then the net force is the gravitational force alone; any other forces must add up to zero."


I see this espoused by truthers a lot, the problem with it? Controlled demo doesn't remove all resistance - what you are referring to is what I shall refer to as 'true free fall' meaning an object that has no resistance at all acting against it as you state. The problem is this is not what occurs with controlled demo - controlled demo takes out the main supporting columns - IT DOESN'T remove all resistance - items such as furniture, stud walls, stairwells, windows, fittings, fixtures etc all remain in place - and do provide resistance according to the very definition you provide.

"Newton's third law says that when objects interact, they always exert equal and opposite forces on each other"

So what we are talking about is not 'true free fall' but something else, because to achieve true free fall at WTC7 you would need to make eight floors and their entire contents disappear - a feat that even explosives cannot achieve - so the very thing you point to as evidence actually disproves your claim. So if we aren't looking at true free fall then what are we looking at? Its what I shall call 'essential free fall' but is better phrased as 'a collapse time indistinguishable from free fall using the timing methods available'.

I promised to keep this simple for you so allow me to explain - If I drop a ten ton weight from ten feet it would fall in free fall - if I did exactly the same test only this time I placed an empty soda can under it the weight would no longer fall in free fall for the entirety of its drop - for the last few inches it would be slowed by the empty soda can demonstrating Newtons Third Law - problem is that in order to measure this decelerating effect you would need unbelievably accurate timing and measuring equipment as you would need to ensure you are dropping the weight from the exact same height, within hundredths of a millimetre and need timing equipment that could record changes in drop time down to thousandths of a second - if you recorded the drop time down to say hundreths of a second you would conclude that both drops are entirely in free fall as they would both record the same time - even though you clearly know the second drop isn't in true free fall due to the soda can, however in this instance the soda can produces 'negligible' resistance, meaning that the resistance offered is not recordable using the measuring equipment available. So when you talk about 'free fall' at WTC7 what you are talking about is 'essential free fall' not 'true free fall' - this is an incredibly important distinction to make as without it neither fire nor controlled demo could have created the collapse at WTC7, to demonstrate how important it is lets take a look at a statement regarding the free fall from NIST -

"During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below."

Do you see a couple of important words in that statement? 'ESSENTIALLY in free fall (so therefore not in true free fall), indicating NEGLIGIBLE (therefore not detectable using the timing methods available) support from the structure'

So this brings us on to the next key point - the amount of resistance that can be determined to be 'negligible' is dependant on the accuracy of the measuring equipment used to measure the descent velocity. As a simple way to explain this imagine that I can run a 10.47s 100m sprint - if I run a 100m race against Usain Bolt he is clearly going to thrash me - however if we run the same race independantly and time it with a watch accurate only to 1 second we would both run the 100m in 10 seconds - meaning according to the timing methods available I would be able to run as fast as the worlds fastest man.

So how accurate was the measuring equipment that was used with regards to WTC7? The answer - not very. Not very accurate at all - David Chandler used standard definition film footage in order to count the pixels - that's it. There is a number of issues with this however to highlight the accuracy (or lack thereof) of the times all those stated in NIST from where they replicate Chandlers experiment are stated as +/-0.1secs - meaning a possible variance of at least 0.2 seconds from the times stated and a total variance of 0.4 seconds (as you have times for the start and finish obviously).

So this means we do not have true free fall, what we actually have is a time indistinguishable from free fall with at least 0.4 seconds of potential variance.

So next we more onto the resistance. As you point out NIST state that what we see is the facade collapsing and that this collapse was caused by a buckling of the external columns between floors seven and seventeen - so if you want to claim that the times David Chandler are important you would need to demonstrate that the resistance created from the buckled columns was great enough to have slowed the collapse by an amount that would be detectable using the timing methods available - otherwise you have to accept that the resistance was 'negligible' - so here we are fifteen years after 9/11, you apparently have over 2,500 architects and engineers supporting your views - so obviously they have calculated this resistance right? You can obviously post up their workings out and demonstrate that these buckled columns should have resisted the upper facade right? Right? I look forward to seeing those workings out that I'm sure you can produce.

Now I've pointed out why 'free fall' means 'essential free fall' not 'true free fall' lets move onto the details within your post.

There were explosions in Building 7 heard by many witnesses throughout the day. One such explosion is recorded in a video clip where several fire fighters are gathered around a pay phone calling home to assure their families they are alright. Suddenly they are startled by a very loud, unmistakable explosion. This is one of the Building 7 explosions that occurred long before it fell.


WTC7 is in that video right? You can clearly see the explosion coming from the building right? Nope. Its just a video that has the word WTC7 in the title - you have no idea where the explosion emanates from you have simply accepted it as fact because it reinforces your beliefs, this is known as confirmation bias. Furthermore as stated that explosion occurs hours before collapse (its believed to be about six hours prior to collapse) - what are you suggesting that they are doing? Did they set of the explosives and the building just hung around thinking about collapse? You'll also notice that not a single firefighter mentions these explosions at WTC7 in the oral histories. Why is that? And most importantly, even if your statement regarding the explosions was true (it isn't) this still wouldn't escape from the fact that according to the truth movement to create the free fall you would need to remove all remaining resistance on the external columns at least across eight floors - meaning at minimum hundreds of charges going off in the moments before collapse - yet no one other than a holocaust denier who can't get his story straight heard them - biblical explosions in one of the most densely populated places on earth and no one hears them? Not a single firefighter mentions them in the oral histories despite 108 mentions of explosions at WTC 1&2?

in a complex scenario involving thermal expansion of beams supporting the column.


Not really that complex at all - thermal expansion causes thermal creep, which causes the beams to unseat, which removes the lateral stability from column 79 which results in the progressive collapse due to the design of WTC7.

One of our German colleagues has pointed to evidence that the east penthouse fell through the interior of the building at close to freefall,


I would LOVE to see the source for that! Can't wait to see how someone recorded the collapse speed of something that they couldn't actually see in an area that was believed to be failing along multiple points - I'd imagine the science involved in that is incredibly robust!!!

The collapse of the building, seen in numerous videos, is described by NIST as the collapse of the "facade," the hollow shell.


No it isn't - Facade does not mean hollow sheel - it merely refers to the outer structure of the building.

Had the failure of interior columns propagated throughout the interior of the building, as asserted by NIST, it would surely have propagated to the much closer exterior walls and distorted or collapsed them.


I always love to see a 'surely' - as what it really means is 'I have no idea but it seems somewhat logical so I'm going to say it anyway and hope no one notices'

(Major crumpling of the exterior walls, by the way, is exactly what is shown in the animations produced by NIST's computer simulation of the collapse.


I'm sure you are a) aware of the limitations of the modelling and b) if you read the NIST report they do not say that the entire interior collapsed entirely first - they say the interior columns failed - this simply means that they lost the ability to support the structure, and that these failed interior columns redistributed the loads to the exterior columns causing them to buckle and fail. There is no mention of a hollow shell remaining standing and then collapsing - the series of events described in chapter 13 of NISTs report is clear - it only states the interior columns failed across the entirety of the interior leading to a collaps eof the extrior columns as the load was redistributed. At least try and be honest.

Furthermore, there are huge pyroclastic flows of dust, resembling a volcanic eruption,

Pyroclastic is defined as "a dense, destructive mass of very hot ash," - pyro literally means fire, anyone caught in a pyroclastic cloud is generally toasted to a crisp - please don't use words you don't understand because the clouds in no way shape or form resemble pyroclastic flow.

triggered earlier when NIST claims the collapse of the much more voluminous interior occurred?


Because they never stated that - your assumptions are based upon your own ignorance.

And why did the west penthouse remain to fall with the visible exterior of the building? Its supporting structure clearly remained to the very end and was "taken out" along with the rest of the building support all at once.


For the exact reasons that NIST state - as soon as the support columns under the West Penthouse failed the load was distributed to the outer columns causing them to fail. East Penthouse was different because the eastern end of WTC7 around column 79 did completely collapse.

(If you have not seen the collapse of Building 7, find it on YouTube and watch for yourself. For most people simply watching it collapse is all it takes. Most people are not stupid.


You are right - show them the video and they will say 'it looks like a demolition' - then show it again and this time include the audio (something which is easier said then done because all the truther videos remove the audio - wonder why that is!), better yet show them an actual demolition too so they can hear what it should sound like - then ask them if they think it was an explosive controlled demolition. I guarantee you will not like the response.

Most people can recognize the difference between a demolition and a natural building collapse with nothing more being said.


Really? How many people have ever seen a natural building collapse in order to distinguish between the two?

If you have never seen the collapse of Building 7 you might also stop and ask yourself why the mainstream media did not repeatedly show you this most bizarre event as it did the Twin Towers.)


I've watched it hundreds of times thanks - never once have I asked why the media focused on the collapse of two buildings that killed over 2000 people and never focused on a building where no one died. Have you ever asked why the media didn't focus on WTC3? Or WTC4,5,6? Or the Greek Orthodox Church? Or Deustche Bank or Fiterman Hall - all destroyed on 9/11 - yet no mention of them because oddly enough the focus was more on the thousands of deaths.

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Posts like that are exactly why I'm still around. It's entertaining to watch arguments from the "Truth" Movement being dismantled like so many Jenga blocks.

That said, I'd love to see something other than a pile of theories, hearsay, opinions, conjecture, and half-truths for a change. Real evidence, presented by someone who was in a position to know what really happened that day. I think such a person doesn't exist.

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That said, I'd love to see something other than a pile of theories, hearsay, opinions, conjecture, and half-truths for a change. Real evidence, presented by someone who was in a position to know what really happened that day. I think such a person doesn't exist.


Ignorance at it's best from some jewish fu*k defending the official BS. Mossad's fingerprints were all over 9/11...

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Jewish? I'm a Pantheist who was raised Methodist.

Bring incontrovertible evidence and I'll believe anything you say. Pity that all you have is unsubstantiated anti-Semitic opinion.

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MilseyMoron loves to accuse everyone who doesn't believe his twoofer BS of being Jewish more than most twoofers on IMDb.



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After the east penthouse collapsed, several seconds elapsed, then the west penthouse began to collapse, at nearly the same time the roofline of the building developed a kink near the center, then all support across the entire width of the building was suddenly removed, a vertical swath of windows under the west penthouse were simultaneously blown out, the building suddenly went limp, and (within a fraction of a second) it transitioned from full support to freefall. I am not using the term "freefall" loosely here. I used a video analysis tool to carefully measure the velocity profile of the falling building using CBS video footage from a fixed camera aimed almost squarely at the north wall. A video detailing this measurement is available at YouTube/user/ae911truth. I calibrated my measurements with the heights of two points in the building provided in the NIST Building 7 report released in August 2008, so I know the picture scale is good. My measurements indicate that with sudden onset the building underwent approximately 2.5 seconds of literal freefall. This is equivalent to approximately 8 stories of fall in which the falling section of the building encountered zero resistance. For an additional 8 stories it encountered minimal resistance, during which it continued to accelerate, but at a rate less than freefall. Only beyond those 16 stories of drop did the falling section of the building interact significantly with the underlying structure and decelerate.

Freefall is an embarrassment to the official story, because freefall is impossible for a naturally collapsing building. In a natural collapse there would be an interaction between the falling and the stationary sections of the building. This interaction would cause crushing of both sections and slowing of the falling section. I have done measurements on several known demolitions, using similar software tools, and found that they typically fall with accelerations considerably less than freefall. Building 7 was not only demolished, it was demolished with tremendous overkill. Freefall was so embarrassing to NIST that in the August 2008 draft release for public comment of their final report, the fact of freefall was denied and crudely covered up with the assertion that the collapse took 40% longer than "freefall time." They asserted that the actual collapse, down to the level of the 29th floor, took 5.4 seconds whereas freefall would have taken only 3.9 seconds. They arrived at their figures with only two data points: the time when the roofline reached the level of the 29th floor and an artificially early start time several seconds prior to the beginning of the obvious, sudden onset of freefall. They started their clock at a time between the collapses of the east and west penthouses when the building was not moving. They claimed they saw a change in a "single pixel" triggering what they asserted was the onset of collapse, but anyone who has worked with the actual videos will recognize that the edge artifacts in the image of the building make this an unrealistic standard. Furthermore, even if there was a tiny motion of the building at that point, it continued to stand essentially motionless for several more seconds before the dramatic onset of freefall collapse. The fact of a cover up in NIST's measurement is underlined in that the formula they point to as the basis for their calculation of "freefall time" is valid only under conditions of constant acceleration. They applied that equation to a situation that was far from uniform acceleration. Instead, the building remained essentially at rest for several seconds, then plunged into freefall, then slowed to a lesser acceleration. Their analysis demonstrates either gross incompetence or a crude attempt at a cover up. The scientists at NIST are clearly not incompetent, so the only reasonable conclusion is to interpret this as part of a cover up. (It is important to stand back occasionally and recognize the context of these events. This was not just a cover-up of an embarrassing fact. It was a cover-up of facts in the murder of nearly 3000 people and part of a justification for a war in which well over a million people have since been killed.)

I had an opportunity to confront NIST about the easily demonstrated fact of freefall at the technical briefing on August 26, 2008. I and several other scientists and engineers also filed official "requests for correction" in the days that followed. When they released their final report in November 2008, much to the surprise of the 9/11 Truth community, they had revised their measurements of the collapse of the building, including an admission of 2.25 seconds of absolute freefall. However, they couched the period of freefall in a framework of a supposed "three phase collapse sequence" that still occupies exactly 5.4 seconds.

The recurrence of 5.4 seconds, even in a completely revised analysis, is very puzzling until you realize its context. NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder told the audience in the August 26, 2008 Technical Briefing that their computerized collapse model had predicted the collapse down to the 29th floor level would take 5.4 seconds, well beyond the 3.9 seconds required for freefall. From the events at the Technical Briefing it appears that a team headed by structural engineer John Gross dutifully fabricated a 5.4 second observation to exactly match the prediction. Anyone with any experience in laboratory measurement would have expected some amount of uncertainty between the prediction and the measurement. They would have been doing extremely well to come up with a computer model that would predict the collapse time within 10%. But no...their measurement exactly matched the prediction to the tenth of a second. Keep in mind that their computer model was constructed in the absence of the actual steel, which had long since been hauled away and destroyed. According to NIST's records, none of the steel from Building 7 remains. (Pause and ponder that fact for a moment. Anyone who has watched CSI knows the importance of preserving the physical evidence in a crime scene. Destroying a crime scene is in itself a crime, yet that is exactly what happened in the aftermath of 9/11, and it happened over the loud protests of the firefighters and others who had a stake in really finding out the truth.) Back to our story. NIST's computer model predicted 5.4 seconds for the building to collapse down to the level of the 29th floor. John Gross and his team found the time the roofline reached the 29th floor, then picked a start time exactly 5.4 seconds earlier to give a measurement that matched the model to the nearest tenth of a second. They took their start time several seconds prior to the actual start of freefall when nothing was happening. The building was just sitting there, with the clock running, for several seconds. Then it dropped, with sudden onset, and continued for 2.5 seconds of absolute freefall.

So, NIST now acknowledges that freefall did occur. How do they explain that? They don't. They simply state, without elaboration, that their three-phase collapse analysis is consistent with their fire induced collapse hypothesis. The only thing about the three-phase analysis that is consistent with their collapse hypothesis is the 5.4 second total duration, measuring from their artificially chosen starting time. In other words, they make no attempt to explain the 2.25 second period of freefall. They just walked away from it without further comment.

The fact remains that freefall is not consistent with any natural scenario involving weakening, buckling, or crushing because in any such a scenario there would be large forces of interaction with the underlying structure that would have slowed the fall. Given that even known controlled demolitions do not remove sufficient structure to allow for actual freefall, how could a natural fire-induced process be more destructive? Add to that the synchronicity of the removal of support across the whole width of the building, evidenced by the levelness of the roofline as it came down, and the suddenness of onset of collapse, and the immediate transition from full support to total freefall. Natural collapse resulting in freefall is simply not plausible. It did not happen. It could not happen. Yet freefall did in fact happen. This means it was not a natural collapse. Forces other than the falling upper section of the building suddenly destroyed and removed the supporting columns for at least eight stories across the entire length and width of the building.

The freefall of Building 7 is one of the clearest of many "smoking guns" that proves explosives were planted in the World Trade Center buildings prior to 9/11, 2001.

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The freefall of Building 7 is one of the clearest of many "smoking guns" that proves explosives were planted in the World Trade Center buildings prior to 9/11, 2001.

No, it doesn't, because no explosions were heard before it collapsed, and the speed of the collapse was MUCH SLOWER than free fall. "ae911truth" are LIARS just like the rest of the SO-CALLED "9/11 truth movement."

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Nice copy and past job - Is there a reason why you are passing of Chandlers work as your own?

After the east penthouse collapsed, several seconds elapsed, then the west penthouse began to collapse, at nearly the same time the roofline of the building developed a kink near the center,


All explained by NIST.

I am not using the term "freefall" loosely here.


yes you are - you are using it completely out of context because you are conflating true free fall with a time indistinguishable from free fall with the timing methods available which are two different things.

My measurements indicate that with sudden onset the building underwent approximately 2.5 seconds of literal freefall.


Congratulations for not understanding the meaning of the word 'literal'

This is equivalent to approximately 8 stories of fall in which the falling section of the building encountered zero resistance.


No it isn't - its a period of collapse where the building faced 'negligible' resistance - namely resistance that was not large enough to be detected by the crappy methods of timing involved. Its quite concerning that you either a) don't understand such simple concepts or b) are intentionally avoiding making the distinction. Both are concerning frankly. And as mentioned earlier, you are aware that if the building was in true free fall then controlled demo could not have been the cause because controlled demo does not remove every single piece of resistance - so your choice is a) true free fall - making controlled demo an impossibility or b) a time indistinguishable from free fall as the negligible resistance is not detectable using the timing methods available - which means that unless you can show that the resistance provided by the buckled external columns was large enough to create meaningful resistance your entire spiel about free fall is completely and utterly irrelevant.

Freefall is an embarrassment to the official story,


Its an embarrassment alright - but not to the official story. Its almost like truthers cannot read simple English - i'll repeat, taken from NIST -

"the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below"

Do you know what 'essentially' and 'negligible' mean? If I set you up for a blind date and told you your partner was 'essentially' a woman, would that set of some alarm bells? If I served you dinner and told you it contained 'negligible' amounts of human faeces would you be inclined to eat it? Essentially in free fall does not mean true free fall. Negligible does not mean none. Its embarrassing that I'm having to explain simple reading comprehension and English frankly.

They would have been doing extremely well to come up with a computer model that would predict the collapse time within 10%. But no...their measurement exactly matched the prediction to the tenth of a second.


A ten percent degree of accuracy would mean a variance of 0.5 seconds - so to get it accurate to the tenth of a second is around a one in five chance - in other words not that unlikely at all.

According to NIST's records, none of the steel from Building 7 remains.


Would you like me to link you to a video of the NIST metallurgist, Professor Sissons testing steel from WTC7?

They claimed they saw a change in a "single pixel" triggering what they asserted was the onset of collapse, but anyone who has worked with the actual videos will recognize that the edge artifacts in the image of the building make this an unrealistic standard.


Fantastic job destroying your claim that your method was accurate! You've just admitted that issues with standard definition film can give false positives (which works both ways as it may also delay the time of when collapse starts). Congratulations.

Their analysis demonstrates either gross incompetence or a crude attempt at a cover up


Cover up what exactly? We have already established that the claims around free fall are meaningless because free fall from the method you claim to have used does not mean 'true free fall'.

It was a cover-up of facts in the murder of nearly 3000 people and part of a justification for a war in which well over a million people have since been killed.)


You've just accused 200 of the worlds leading experts on building collapses, 140+ of whom were independant contractors, of being utter psychopatths complicit in the murder of thousands of people including children - I hope you have something more compelling than 'I don't like the way in which they replicated my *beep* attempt at timing and the ridiculous conclusions I drew from it due to my piss poor understanding of science' because that a very very very serious allegation to make.

So, NIST now acknowledges that freefall did occur. How do they explain that? They don't.


Yeah they do - its right there in their final report - hell its even in their FAQ section on their website, question 11.

They just walked away from it without further comment.


Apart from where they explain it of course.

The fact remains that freefall is not consistent with any natural scenario involving weakening, buckling, or crushing


The fact remains that it isn't consistent with controlled demo either. Unless you (or David Chandler if you wish to just copy and paste his work as your own again) can prove that the resistance provided by the buckled external columns is large enough to be detectable using the crappy timing method you have precisely....nothing. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

The freefall of Building 7 is one of the clearest of many "smoking guns" that proves explosives were planted in the World Trade Center buildings prior to 9/11, 2001.


Except it doesn't - however the video with audio of the collapse proves beyond any doubt that explosive collapse wasn't a possibility because there were no sounds of explosions in the moments before WTC7 collapsed - hence why no video captures it, hence why no witnesses mentioned it and hence why Chandler did his laughably pathetic attempt to desperately try and find some - even Richard Gage now accepts that there were no explosions in the moments before WTC7 collapsed - meaning even he agrees that explosives could not have caused WTC7 to collapse. He has now had to move his brand of snake oil onto ever more ludicrous explanaions (in his case special magic thermite cutters).

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