MovieChat Forums > September Dawn (2007) Discussion > Why has this movie flopped?

Why has this movie flopped?

posted 15 years ago by wayneadams2003
14 replies | jump to latest

I haven't seen the movie, and I've checked the review, and now I realise there's no point for me to see this movie...

Articles on the film and Mountain Meadows Massacre generally:

Ben Arnoldy, "Ahead of 'September Dawn,' Mormon Church revisits dark period," Christian Science Monitor (24 August 2007.

"...a bigoted hatchet job...This isn't a movie review so much as it is a warning. "September Dawn" is not a poorly made movie, it is an expertly crafted attack on the Mormon Church. It is an anti-Mormon sermon projected onto the silver screen, as replete with distortion and bigotry as any of the Web sites, pamphlets or books conjured up to vilify the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since it was founded more than 175 years ago. The movie reviewers don't quite get it. Without a background in Mormon history and doctrine, and without a knowledge of the favorite themes of the anti-Mormon industry, the sinister detail of the movie would not be evident.
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007).

"But the theme of the movie is larger and more subtle than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The movie, under cover of being a historical drama, is really a religious attack. It is chapter and verse out of the books and sermons of anti-Mormon evangelists who believe God has called them to attack other people's faith. There is, unfortunately, a large tradition among some Christian ministers of mocking Mormon beliefs. Some of these ministers literally travel from town to town, congregation to congregation, preaching against Mormonism. Sacred aspects of Mormon worship and dress are ridiculed by these ministers."
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007.

"A great body of anti-Mormon literature has built up over the years. This movie's most hateful aspects are drawn not from history, but from that anti-Mormon literature. Details are included that can only be intended to offend and insult Mormons who see the movie, and alienate from the church those who consider becoming members of it. The material contained in the movie is not historical, it is hateful."
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007).

"...the notion of "blood atonement" — a theme harped upon by anti-Mormon preachers — is all through this movie, woven into the plot and at least four subplots or tangents. The belief — that people must die to make up for their sins — has never been a doctrine of the Mormon Church, but is the essential premise of 'September Dawn.'"
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007)

"The horrific way in which Brigham Young, a character presumed to be Apostle George A. Smith, pioneer John D. Lee and a fictional bishop are depicted is patently demonic. These characters could have come from nowhere other than the imagination of someone with an intense personal loathing of the Mormon Church and its leaders. Not since Adolf Hitler depicted Jews has Western cinema been used to so spitefully destroy the history and reputation of religious leaders."
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007.

"...this entire movie is a vendetta. It is not about the Mountain Meadows Massacre, it is about using the medium of the commercial motion picture to advance an anti-Mormon bigotry that is typically only shouted outside Mormon conferences, temples and pageants. And that is not a hypersensitive response. It is an earnest assessment of the movie's content. The instances of pointed anti-Mormon insult are so gratuitous and abundant in this movie that their presence cannot be accidental. The movie intended to offend, and it did. The movie attempted to defame the Mormon Church, and it did. It is a heavy-handed smear job...It is not a badly made movie. But it is an evilly intended movie. It doesn't seek to entertain or inform, it seeks to tear down and destroy. And, sadly, it does a pretty good job."
- Bob Lonsberry, "Commentary," The Washington Times (2 September 2007)

Interesting that the movie has flopped and the Mormon Church still gaining more converts.
Work Hard To Avoid Hard Work

[–] geode 15 years ago

The film also attempts to establish parallels between the Mountain Meadows Massacre and Islamic terrorist acts. In a Mormon meeting or two one practically expects the characters to yell "Jihad"...this film is in fact a raving piece of anti-Mormon propaganda.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] wayneadams2003 15 years ago

Ha ha, yep. If a member did yell "Jihad" then this movie would cease to exist!

Work Hard To Avoid Hard Work

[–] MESpiegel 15 years ago

All you've done is quite Bob Lonsberry. For those who don't know, Lonsberry is a fervent Mormon; how could you expect him to like this movie when the LDS hard line is deny, deny, deny?

Until the LDS church owns its history and at least apologizes for that massacre, that sin it will be looked harshly upon by many.

If an honest and sincere apology can work for the Germans & their holocaust, it can work for the Mormons and the Mountain Meadow Massacre.

[–] wayneadams2003 15 years ago

Is Lonsberry a mormon? I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me. Shall I copy and paste more reviews from ALL of the film critics? I am talking about newspapers, magazines, internet film reviews? I wouldn't mind doing that. All of them are negetive, and I am sure not all of them are mormons. Deny?

I guess you've haven't read Ensign magazines. Full details of the massacre.

We do acknowledge of the tradegy. It was on self defense as one of the apostles were murdered shortly before this, those mormons thought those gangs were murderers, and Brigham Young has written the message to ALLOW them to get through, but arrived too late.

It was a tradegy, and this is why we've paid a memorial stone for them.

Hope this helps.

Work Hard To Avoid Hard Work

[–] billatherton 15 years ago

"It was on self defense as one of the apostles were murdered shortly before this"

How the heck is executing women and children with a shot to the back of the head, as revealed by recent forensic evidence, self defense?

Not hard to tell who the wannabe apologists are. Still trying to defend a senseless massacre.

[–] geode 15 years ago

All you've done is quite Bob Lonsberry. For those who don't know, Lonsberry is a fervent Mormon; how could you expect him to like this movie when the LDS hard line is deny, deny, deny?

I don't even know who Bob Lonsberry might be. The comments were my own original thoughts. Dod someone else make the same observation ? Not too difficut to see how that could happen.

Until the LDS church owns its history and at least apologizes for that massacre, that sin it will be looked harshly upon by many.

A senior Mormon aposlte basically apologized for the event.

If an honest and sincere apology can work for the Germans & their holocaust, it can work for the Mormons and the Mountain Meadow Massacre.

Further apology is a good idea.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] billatherton 15 years ago

Go figure. Bob Lonsberry is a member of the LDS organization so his opinion wouldn't be biased, would it.
I think the movie is great and I cheer every time I see Smith getting shot.

[–] wayneadams2003 15 years ago

Smith getting shot is a blessing for LDS actually. The more attack the Church recieves, it grows. Look back in history and compare the attacks against the Church and the growth rate.

Defensive? Ok, Mormons were shot, raped, kids were brutalised on daily basis, I mean, EVERY day from Joseph Smith's time. Once Mormons have a go, the WORLD complains and criticise the Church. Are Mormons allowed to do the same as those mobs who killed the early saints?

Guess what? Prop 8. Mormon won. Serve those people in California right for attacking the LDS.

People like you are really helping the Church to grow.

Let's have an idiot test: Reply once, just once, to prove your an idiot. If you say nothing and stop, that will prove you're not an idiot. I mean, just once. If you did reply in anger, in mock, in protest, or try to answer back will satisfy the test that you're an idiot. So, if I were you.... do nothing and leave. This way, you won't attract new converts.

Have a good day!!! Got a feeling you CAN'T resist the temptation to reply..... Even one word will fail you.

You're too weak. Don't reply for ever, but you can't!

Work Hard To Avoid Hard Work

[–] billatherton 15 years ago

I was out of town for the day, hence the delay oh impatient one.

The LDS is not growing. That is the usual party line (read malarkey). There are a large number of people, my wife for one, who signed up, and very shortly after, when she got past the warm and fuzzy bull, got out. She still shows up on the books as a member of the organization, but she now realizes that JS was, in fact, full of BS, and curses his existence for the lies he created while attempting to place himself on an equal standing with Jesus.
LDS apologists always come up with the most absurd and ludicrous attempts to explain the countless faults and contradictions within the doctrine and LDS works such as the DNA question, steel swords, horses in North America about 600 BCE, the lack of one inkling of archeological evidence of this huge imaginary civilization, the four plus versions of the first vision, the secret names and hand signs (based exactly on the masons), the proof that the Book of Abraham, as translated by JS, was in fact, an Egyptian funerary document, the plurality of Gods, non-belief in the virgin birth, the Adam/God teachings, Jesus and Satan are brothers, cureloms and cumoms, JS and his treasure seeking, his arrest for fraudulent treasure seeking in NY, and the list goes on endlessly.

Even the most idiotic investigator would pick up on the absurdity of the whole cult methodology, but apparently a lot of idiots don’t.

The baker’s hats and green aprons look silly enough, so I suppose that is why it's supposed to be top secret.

I'm not the weak one my ol' son. I didn’t buy the snake oil that the LDS sells. As P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute", and you and yours appear to be living proof.

Now off you go, baptize Adolf Hitler...AGAIN, call 19 to 20 year olds ELDERS, deny polygamy ever existed, and keep "lying for the Lord" (which ever one you pray to).

[–] geode 15 years ago

Now off you go, baptize Adolf Hitler...AGAIN, call 19 to 20 year olds ELDERS, deny polygamy ever existed, and keep "lying for the Lord" (which ever one you pray to).

Now, now, you know better than to think that Mormons have a problem with any of what you state here...except there being 19 year old Elders.

Oh Lord, you gave them eyes but they cannot see...

[–] billatherton 15 years ago

My bad. Being 20 years old, not 19, definitely qualifies one to be referred as "elder".

[–] blackhawkswincup2010 14 years ago

to get back on point, I think the fact that the makers casting Terence Stamp as Brigham Young is a hint that they never had the intent of true objectivity. Face it, he looks like Satan incarnate, and that is the level of attempted manipulation by the makers of this hatchet job.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]