MovieChat Forums > A Guide to Recognizing Your Saints (2006) Discussion > Didn't get his relationship with his Dad...

Didn't get his relationship with his Dad...


I didn't get it, and it seems critical to the story. Why does he have such a problem with his Dad. Ok, maybe his Dad was a little out of it at times, but hell I've seen a lot worse in real life and film. hell, his dad was there, he was involved in his life...he seemed to express love and caring. What caused him to flip out so much with his Dad. Its weird cause you have this tough kid flipping out cause he feels his daddy just doesn't get him. What? Maybe this is a reaction that some coddled brat from LA with a Dad that is always gone or sends him to prep school might have,,,,but this just didn't make sense to me and ultimately ruined the movie for me.

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That's what made this film so special. yeah, if he beat him it would be more obvious for you I guess. As the director mentioned he thought it was funny when Downey says in the Rosario scene that "she didn't know what it was like in that house!" he laughed & said it was alot better than it was in Antonio's house but unfortunately it wasn't what the kid wanted. Which is why he was so racked with guilt having left the people who loved him so much.

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Ok..yeah,,,I kind of get the "racked with guilt for leaving"...thing (sort of). And, I kind of get the leaving in the first place.....I mean, he had a lot of other stuff to run from, get away from,,,murders etc. But the relationship with the Dad seems so critical from the directorial point of view...I just cant get the kids breakdown scene with his dad and what that was all about....was it not really about his dad at all.....c'mon the more I think about this, the movie is just way too esoteric....cannot connect at all. But thanks for tryin...

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I think Dito was frustrated because his father refused to recognize what he was going through. His father probably suffered to see Dito's pain, but seemed to be in denial at the same time ("Anotonio is gonna take care of it" and "You're just kids. It's gonna be okay"). I think Dito felt very misunderstood in the movie by everyone except Mike, and it caused him to give up on those around him.

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I think it was just that Ditto knew he was going to leave, and he was just completely heartbroken because he knew that his dad wouldn't understand, and had apparently said that if he left, he wouldn't talk to him again, so he was losing the best thing that was in his life, to save his life.

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Actually, I had issues with the relationship part too - but then you get the point that really, it was the author/narrator who had issues with his own life. The father's extreme anger is due to the ultimate betrayal of having loved his son and seen him cast him aside and disrespect him. Rosario Dawson's character points out that he (R.D. jr) killed him by leaving him in such an ugly manner.

BUT - then at the end they play out the one scene in the shower and you see the younger version struggling with his dad and pushing him away ... then ... they replay just the audio from the father and you hear his calm words ... I love you ... I'm proud of you ... antonio doesn't have anyone to say things to him ... you need to visit him ... take that friend of yours (mike), he's a good kid ... I like him ... etc ...

In otherwords, the rage and desire to run away from his life caused the narrator to abandon his family, his old friends, and a forgiving girlfriend who wanted to be with him.

In my opinion, this movie is basically a warning to young people that they need to stop and really listen to what their loved ones are saying ... or else they'll miss the message because they're blinded by their own rage.

"El riesgo vive siempre!"

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I like reading everyone's response to my initial post....mostly though, they just go to point out that the film is really flawed because the whole father son relationship is just entirely ambiguous and yet obviously key to understanding the characters and the film. Oh yes, I think that films can be ambiguous and affective, but thats tricky business to pull off. And it was not pulled off here. But good posts, they helped me see some different angles.

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[deleted]

I didn't fully get way Ditto was so angry with his dad. I complete agree with this statement....

the film is really flawed because the whole father son relationship is just entirely ambiguous and yet obviously key to understanding the characters and the film. Oh yes, I think that films can be ambiguous and affective, but thats tricky business to pull off. And it was not pulled off here. But good posts, they helped me see some different angles.


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&feature=related

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i think the mom said it best, that his dad treated him more like a "best friend" more than a son...
the dad treated antonio more like a son than anyone

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exactly. his father was like one of the guys... never really listening to his son. didn't anyone else find it weird that when dito comes home completely beat up after being assaulted, his father does NOTHING ? and says that antonio, another KID, will make it all alright. that's supposed to be his job.

his father loved him immensely (as did everyone else around him), but to me, he didn't really know how to be a father, and dito resented him for that. not saying that it's justified... but when you have no one to talk to, you wish you could fall back on someone at least.




why buy the cow when you get the sex for free ?

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I think there was another big part no one is mentioning. Dito's father told him if he ever moved away from Queens his father would never talk to him again. I mean, to clip the kids wings at 16 is ridiculous. His father didn't want him to leave because he felt if Dito left then he'd lose his friend (Dito said himself in the documentary feature that his father had no male friends which is why he viewed Dito & co. a friends) & son. Dito viewed this as his father sentencing him to a life of hell in Astoria. Dito didn't want to end up like his father.

Parents always want their kids to have a better life than they had but Dito's father didn't seem to want that for Dito, at least Dito (& the viewer) never got that impression.

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good point.





why buy the cow when you get the sex for free ?

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[deleted]

Although Dito's dad was always there, he never really treated him like a son. He tried to keep him down. Dito's mother summed it all up, "he saw you as a best friend. He couldn't wait for you to come outside to play." Dito's father saw himself in Antonio, and Antonio is Dito's best friend - see how that works? So, it was like a weird cycle. Antonio took care of Dito, like the father did and the father always wanted Antonio around.

I dunno how to explain it, really. Sorry.
Hopefully, you get the idea.

All-in-all, I loved this movie. I love how the director made you connect with all the characters, and made you feel what they were feeling.

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The duality of the father-son relationship is what drives the son to act out the way he did. One one hand you see how much his father loved him and you can understand the father's anger when his son deserts his family. On the other hand, his life was a mess, he had to get out of there or end up in jail or dead. His father should have seen that and encouraged him to leave or moved his family away. But his father seemed to need his son more than love him and tried to keep him there for selfish reasons which the son sensed and reacted to by fleeing. His father gave him no choice but to break contact after issuing the ultimatum but it caused him great guilt and he must have suffered for the 15 years he was away.

It is hard to convey the complexities of a story like this but the direction and writing were excellent. Life is always more ambiguous than displayed in films but here you are told the story without a line by line explanation. Intriguing movie.

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The issue clearly runs much deeper than a 'tough kid flipping out cause he feels his daddy just doesn't get him'. It's not a traditional tale of dad-beats-son-up-so-son-hates-dad either; that would be closer to the story Antonio would have to tell, I believe. The clue to understanding Dito's relationship with his dad lies, I think, in the way Dito's dad seems to see Antonio as the ideal son, constantly repeating that "Antonio will make it right". However, he doesn't know half of the things going on beneath the surface with Antonio; he does not see that Antonio initiates many of the fights and that he is a loose cannon through most of the story. He perceives that Antonio is a boy from a broken home who doesn't have anyone to tell him that they care about him, and regards himself as the one who can save him.

The problem with this, is that by attempting to "save" Antonio, Morty has forgotten about his own son, who obviously is a good boy who "will make it". I can only imagine the strain it must have been on Dito's confidence to know that his own father made more of an effort to be a father figure for his friend, than for him. That Dito's father didn't even listen to what he had to say when he was crying in the bathroom after Mike got shot, only serves to support my point.

Let's have a look at Mike, and why Dito befriended him. Do you think it's a coincidence that he is the only one of the characters (except for maybe Dito's mother, who remains passive through most of the story) who visibly favours Dito over Antonio; thinking Antonio is an idiot? I don't think so. Dito is looking for support.

Yes, Dito's dad told him he loved him and cared about him, the only problem was that he cared for Antonio more. His faith was with Antonio for fixing things, Antonio was the one who needed help and guidance because he didn't get any from home.

With this theory in mind, it all makes so much sense. "Did you ever really love me?" paints a picture of a boy, grown into a man, who for 15 years have believed that his father loved his "other son" more. "When were you ever my father?" describes to us a complicated relationship and a father who hasn't been there for his son when he needed him.

This is precisely what makes this film so complex and wonderful and worthy of standing ovation; the characters have depth, they are human; they change their minds and sometimes they're stupid and you want to pull your hair out because they make the wrong choices. Dito's relationships, both with his dad, Antonio, his mum and Laurie are complicated and are not meant to be easily understood by people whose interest in films range from 50 First Dates to Die Hard.

Hope this added something to the discussion.








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Firstly, I just want to say that it is definitely a very complex relationship and I can see how it didn't make sense to some and thus made the movie hard to enjoy.

I think that SiLjE86 has the best (and longest) reply. Just to add to it though, and to vaguely summarise what some people have said already, I think that the central issue was Morty's relationship with Antonio. If you've ever had a parent be more concerned about a friend or relative of yours (than they are about you), you'd know what it's getting at.

Secondly, is the fact that Dito's father is so unlike a father. Once again, anyone who's had a similar experience will understand. For those who haven't, imagine what it would be like if your understanding of life and people was better than your parents and that you were the one that always had to tell them to eat their vegetables and to make sure they thanked people for looking after the house, etc. It's just very hard to respect parents who honestly do not know how to be parent, but instead, are like a teenager themselves. This I say because I feel that for the most part, I have to take care of my mum. I mean I want to respect her, I really do, but it's so very hard when most of the demands she makes of me are things that she herself does not do.

It's a similar idea with Dito I believe, not identical but similar in that his dad is not as mature, in the parenting sense, as you might expect. And it's this that Dito is so frustrated with. There are some things that you just can't explain to your parents when it's their job to explain to you. I mean, imagine explaining human nature to your mother or father because he or she does not understand it as well as you do. Sometimes it's just too weird. And if it's in relation to you and why you act a certain way, it makes it completely impossible. If they don't know the reason already, you're not going to explain it.

Personally, I have so many similar experiences with my own mother and I completely identify with the complete dysfunctionality of the relationship, as well as the frustration and very strong need to escape.

I know I'm writing a lot and it probably won't get read, but I am seriously very moved by this movie. My favourite scene would be when he confronts his father. I know it sounds stupid that he has to ask if his father loved him, but often, it's hard to feel loved and appreciated. It's a scene that I know I'd never be brave enough to enact with my mum.

Anyway, for those who have also had similar relationships with family and experiences in life, I'm sure you appreciate how honest this movie is. I saw this movie originally because I'm a big fan of Robert Downey Jr's (even before Iron Man came out mind you), but this movie was so much more than just seeing him. I loved the whole cast and have so much respect for the writer/director Dito Montiel, who was crazy enough to put all his experiences down on paper and then show the whole world.



"You can't find the truth, you just pick the lie you like best"

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He wanted his dad to be there for him like a father instead of a friend. Also his father never wanted to hear what he wanted.

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I just saw this last night. I had heard of it a while ago and wanted to see it, but somehow missed every doing so.

I agree, Dito has a very screwed up relationship with his father, and it is mostly his father's fault, though Antonio is to blame as well. Antonio is alway running to Monty, telling him about things Dito is doing, things that may be good for Dito, but in such a way as to show he disapproves. Antonio disapproves because Dito is growing, and he is afraid Dito will leave him. If Antonio disapproves, then Monty does, too.

It had to be EXTREMELY frustrating for Dito, to know that all of the problems, all of the drama come from Antonio's actions, while his father won't listen to Dito or see what danger Antonio is putting Dito in. Jenny lies and says the Reaper cut Dito, when it was her fault when she threw the bottle. Antonio doesn't stop to ask Dito, but instead goes after the Reaper's little brother, giving him DITO's NAME! So the Reaper beats the hell out of Dito! Antonio kills the Reaper for revenge. The Reaper's friend kills Mike. And in the mean time, all Monty can do is say, "Antonio is a good boy, Dito needs to stay here, you can't leave or have a life of your own." He won't listen or understand or believe his son.

The shower scene was especially poignant for me. I had a friend die in high school. I was wrecked. At the funeral, my heart was breaking into a thousand pieces, and my mother kept trying to hug me, and hold me under the umbrella out of the rain. I kept stepping away, because I couldn't stand to be touched or next to anyone. I finally had to tell to her to please not touch me. Fortunately she listened, or I may have gone off the way Dito did.

Essentially, Dito's pain and problems with his father stem from his father's refusal to see or understand his son. Monty's knows what HE wants to happen and how HE wants things to be, and can't accept that his son might have a different goal or agenda. Dito can't accept surrendering his life to his father and that oppressive, dangerous neighborhood. So he runs...

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Dito's father and Antonio are very much alike, especially in regards to their feelings for/attitudes towards Dito. They both push him around a little bit, they both seem to have a desperate need for him, and they both smother him and become jealous/angry when he tries to separate himself from them at all, so much so that it stunts Dito's individuality and freedom.

There are many reasons for Dito's breakdown in the bathtub scene, which have already been mentioned by previous posters. The entire situation with Dito and Antonio vs. Reaper and his gang/family has turned into a nightmare. Antonio has murdered Reaper and one of Reaper's friends has killed Mike, who had nothing to do with any of it. I'm sure that Dito is experiencing a great amount of guilt over Mike's death. Dito's father, as others have said, refuses to listen to him and constantly smothers him. He smothers him with his words, his arms/hands, his anger, his neediness. He obviously loves him but he does not know how to be a supportive parent. Dito is freaking out over his friend's very recent murder and his dad doesn't even give him a chance to tell him about it. He tells Dito that everything is okay but he doesn't even know why his son is upset. I think he is basically trying to convince Dito that things are not so bad at home so that Dito will not abandon him. I think that he refuses to listen to Dito and talks over him so that he might stifle Dito's thoughts which will eventually lead to his independence. Add to that the fact that Monty is so preoccupied with Antonio all the time (and Dito is probably assigning a great deal of blame to Antonio over Mike's death as well) and it isn't hard to understand Dito's frustration, even rage, directed at his father in that scene.

I think its interesting that Antonio seems to forgive Dito easier than Monty does. He seems to have matured in a way that Monty never really did.

Coach McGuirk: All right, listen up, that was a good game. We all showed up, and I'm proud of that.

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