Enough, already!


I have just seen 49 Up and enjoyed it, as I've enjoyed the other Up episodes, especially because I'm of the same age as the subjects.
My feeling, though, is that I am a voyeur into these people's lives, made all the more apparent when the only participant that says anything positive about being in the spotlight every 7 years is John, who has used the exposure to further his charitable works.
It IS time to stop, Michael Apted! The kids are turning 50 soon, and the period for testing the Jesuit saying "Give me the boy and I'll show you the man", has well and truly past!

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They can refuse to participate. No one is forcing them to do this. I would also like to see how these individuals enter into late adulthood and old age so there is definitely more to be discovered.

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I'm not sure they all really can "refuse to participate." Apted says in the commentary for 42 that he pays them for their appearances. Some of these people are downright poor, and I think it would be very difficult for them to turn down money on principle. In 14 or 21 the wealthy boys talk about having more options, and I think this is a great example of that. The wealthier they are, the easier it would be for them to opt out.

(Having said that, I love the series and miss the ones who haven't participated in a while!)

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I think this is a good time to stop-we've had 7 episodes in this series. Maybe Apted could do a Special Edition of 49 Up...i.e. get those who didn't appear in more recent episodes for a final conversation about things.
One more thing-the stated experiment of the first one was to see what would become of these kids by the year 2000. Question already answered.
With Tony, if he had become a successful jockey, he could have escaped the confines of his class.

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Just remember you might be close to sucking your meal out of a straw by the time you watch that edition of the series. We are aging with them after all.

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You're assuming that person is the same age as the subjects.

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I would agree with Mia-38's comment if it wasn't for the fact that it is so compulsive. I haven't seen 49Up yet, but waiting for the US dvd to come out. I am an expat and I watched the first 3 as a university student in psychology class. My main complaint about the series (and I think 49up is the same from the trailer I've seen) is that in each of the series we have to endure the same clips over and over again...zzzzz. I understand that there might be new viewers who need updates, but they're all the same format. How many times do I want to see Symon saying, "I don't like greens!" Or the Yorkshire lad saying "I don't want to talk about that!"? Having said all that I am still going to buy the dvd becasue I'm hooked on knowing what happened to them. I really don't think Michael Apted should make another one. Really Mr Apted, let's leave them alone now! I should think it's more depressing for those in it than it is for us. We only have our memories to remind us of our embarrassments, our missed opportunities etc. and we can let the mists of time dim those memories. These subjects of the Up series can't. It's all there in black n'white, a sharp and brutal reminder of how things might have been and wasn't. They should quit and tell Mr Apted that they want to grow old in peace.

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But I really don't understand that viewpoint. Isn't the point of this series to teach us about all phases of our lives? Why quit at the dawn of their elder years? Aren't the elderly invisible enough already? So they didn't or haven't met some of their goals. Big deal. Are we suppose to feel sorry for them because of it? How many of us have failed to reach our goals at one point or another? I wonder if we expect greatness just because we put them on a big screen. They are just ordinary people. I want to know how ordinary people age. I want to know how I might age. Seniors are virtually absent from mainsteam and pop consciousness. I think this viewpoint only perpetuates the fact that we don't want to be reminded of our mortality.

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Isn't the point of this series to teach us about all phases of our lives?

I totally agree. One of the things I loved about "49" is that it made me feel hopeful. I am in my 40s but not up to 49 yet, and it gives me something to look forward to. It seemed to me that their lives, in general, are as good or better at 49 than they were at 42. People who are divorced are either remarried or in a new relationship that they are happy in. Everyone seems content. I think it portrays middle age as something very positive, which is pretty contrary to what society tells us: that life ends at 40 (or earlier). And as you say, older people are virtually absent from popular consciousness. We need to keep seeing them as they age -- if they consent.

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I finally saw the movie last night. I think I understand why people are saying "enough already". There seems to be something redundant about seeing them every 7 years from here on out. I don't know why I feel that way now. I thought perhaps they could wait 14 years and interview them as seniors. Seems like seniors have a lot to say and nobody is asking them anything. I also wonder whether the line of question carries an implicit value judgement. As one of the interviewees became somewhat defensive I wasn't sure if she had a chip on her shoulder or if the director was indeed implying that she should feel bad simply because she didn't "make it" whatever the hell that means. I think it is too bad they are so self conscious about the process which seems strange in an age of reality television and excessive exhibitionism. I am a professional counselor so I look at them with respect and empathy and I realize not everyone will look at them this way. I actually appreciate what they have done for this project and I am so grateful for it. I actually wanted to write a few of them to thank them although I suspect they just want to be left alone. In the end, I wonder why I just don't look at my life or the lives of those around me. I had to ask myself if I am the same person I was since 7 years old. I feel I have lived a few different lives already although at my core I suppose somethings are the same. These people looked so consistent from an earlier age.

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I think Jackie had a lot of good points, not a chip on her shoulder. Upper class Suzy was not asked about her experience with men quite the way the East End girls were, and I do think Jackie is actually brighter than she has been depicted. How much of this is her or Apted's doing is not clear of course.

Like ddeboer, I have a lot of gratitude and admiration for the participants, although I think the series should wind up with the next. Suzy's interview only segment, with her intention to have this be her last struck me as a tasteful way to leave. She seems to have felt judged, and I am sure there have been assumptions made about her, as with all the others.

Nick's feelings on why this series "matters" were very generous. I didn't find John's comparison to reality TV particularly apt, but it's probably as good a time as any to consider what sort of value the series has. A series of this sort could probably not be begun today, which may in itself be reason enough to keep going.

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I was thinking I am beginning to feel sorry for these people the same way I felt sorry for the Truman character is The Truman Show. Still, I have to say that while it is fascinating we don't get a lot of depth. For example, what holds Suzy's marriage together after all these years? Why did Jackie's relationships fail? Mostly the series can be seen as an inventory of what you managed to acquire: (1) Find a mate? check (2) Have a career? Of course we dare not ask anything that is too revealing. It is already hard enough that they are being judged. Still I do recall some nice tidbits like surviving an affair and becoming grandparents, moving on from your home town, feeling strongly about work you do that is charitable and not valued by the government, and how orphaned men find women who nuture them in their relationships. So I guess we get some stuff but I wish it was more. I just think that Suzy and Jackie are both reserved and defensive respectively yet I hardly know anything about how their relationships worked or didn't work.

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I think Jackie had a lot of good points, not a chip on her shoulder. Upper class Suzy was not asked about her experience with men quite the way the East End girls were

Could that be because Suzy married at 22 and has stayed married 27 years, and given the way she was so negative about marriage at 21, this was probably the first guy she had a real relationship with. . .
vs Jackie who has 3 children by 2 different men, and iirc she was never married to father #2, though he is still active in the boys' lives. There is just more to explore with Jackie's relationships.

I am sure Jackie has a point in being angry, not necessarily a chip on her shoulder. But it is interesting that areason she gave for being angry is she felt she was portrayed as a victim re her illness in "42". Then they show a clip of her from "42" where she was displaying a very positive attitude about her condition. So how does she get that she was portrayed as a victim? Even before they showed that clip, my recollections of "42" were not of her coming across as a victim. But I know it's hard for anyone, especially the participants, to be objective about this.

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It's Paul who doesn't like greens . . . but I do get your point!

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"It's Paul who doesn't like greens . . ."

Geez, my heart wrenches whenever I see that spot. That and the "What's University?" question. He's such a soulful little boy. He would have had a great career as a street beggar at that age; had he developed a convincing cough nobody would have been able to tell him "No."

In 28 Up his wife tells us that he now likes his greens.

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hahahahahha

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Oh dear lord, the "greens" clip. That was always an endless source of laughter/annoyance in my household. Enough with the greens!

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I think people who complain that "The experiment is over" are injecting a "purpose" into the films that was not there from the beginning. If you listen to Apted's commentary on "42 Up", you find that the first film was not meant to follow the kids from childhood to adulthood to see how the child is the father of the man; "7 Up" was meant to be a one-off film, just showing people what England of 2000 would look like by looking at the kids of today (then).

The "purpose" of the series has changed as the series itself progressed. Apted says that he worried that the series wouldn't be interesting after 21, as the people had more or less reached adulthood and wouldn't be physically different after that; yet now he thinks that the emotional development of the subjects is more interesting than the physical development.

If Apted wants to keep making the films, and the subjects agree to participate, what's the harm? They're all adults now, and they certainly can say "no" (as several have). Personally, I think 35 and 42 were not as interesting as the others, as the changes they're undergoing, as well as their desire to express themselves, diminishes (with certain exceptions). This could also be that they have reached my age now (as I'm 40), and the story appears to be "over" (after all, it's all about ME, isn't it :) ).

But in 42, Jackie comments that she thinks the story isn't over for her yet, and I think that's important. It's tempting to think of people's lives as "over" once they've had kids and they're out of the house, but who really knows. What makes the series compelling for me is precisely one of the criticisms against it - these kids had no choice in the matter. They weren't chosen at random, but at the same time, these are not the fame-hungry, prevaricating attention-whores you see on so-called "Reality TV" today. Where else can we find such a thorough public document of what would otherwise be anonymous people's lives?

200 years from now, people may look at the blockbusters, romantic comedies, dramas and the rest as a window into what the privileged felt the masses wanted to see (or wanted them to see), but the Up series is what they're going to watch when they want to find out what life was really like for the rest of the 98%.

-BbT

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I totally disagree!! I can't wait for the next installment. (I also don't mind seeing the same clips. It helps remind me of who everyone is, since it's been awhile, and the familiarity is nice, like pictures in an album.) I think it's fascinating to see these people maturing. Many of them are much more interesting now (to me at least)than they were when they were younger. I think today's culture is youth-obsessed, and there is very little out there depicting the lives of older people. I applaud Apted for continuing, so we can see the changes that take place in a person over a lifetime.

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I think these films should be made until everyone had died. Not for any voyeuristic sense but this series is about us, about human lives. Yes, the original premise has past but the series has grown out of that mold. Every time you watch one of these, you cant help but examine your own life at these periods. It has become much more than about child vs adult.

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I'm working my way through the series now, having never seen them before. In the past 10 days, I've managed to get through 35 Up! Seeing it in this fashion really makes the above comment about past clips ring true...it's getting a bit dull seeing so much of the same thing again and again. However, I think I'll feel differently at 56 Up! when I'll have forgotten these things a bit.

As jon-9000 says, I would like to follow these stories until there is nothing left to follow. However, an interesting question is how it will deal with the death of Michael Apted. At 65, he probably will be one of the first to go. By the time they do 70 Up!, he will be 86. I'm curious to see what effect his eventual absence will have.

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Ha I actually LIKE the same clips over and over again because, being a nerd, I quote them (especially from the 7 UP installment)

Tony has the best quotes as a kid.

"They're nuts."

"Yeah I wanna be a jockey when I grow up, yeah I wanna be a jockey when I grow up."

Etc., etc.

But I digress

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I think you would annoy my wife as much as I do. If she hears me say one more time that "My heart's desire is to see my daddy, who's 6000 miles away" she'll scream.

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The "Up" series could continue up to 105Up. After all, people are living a lot longer nowadays. Should Apted pass away before then, another director could take over.

A friend in need is a friend to avoid.

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"Ha I actually LIKE the same clips over and over again because, being a nerd, I quote them (especially from the 7 UP installment)"

Me too! I get extreme pleasure from hearing them for some reason!

I also think it helps to understand what they are saying sometimes.

And I have different reflections about them each time I see who this person now is.




In my case, nickel, if you are dead, someone smoking a cigarette, was his mother.

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