"What if the curse can never be broken?"
"Then i'll kill myself. I promise, i promise i will"
Whenever i watch this otherwise very enjoyable film, this particular line always bugs and depresses me immensely. Do you think Penelope meant what she said, and if so was it out of frustration, self hatred, a need to escape it all???
I think that she just couldn't take the idea of the rest of her life being spent hidden away the way again. She had been raised with the premise that the nose could go away, that was all she and her mother worked towards, and Penelope was just done.
What disturbed me most about that scene was that noone - the mother, matchmaker, or even James McAvoy - seemed shocked/bothered that she threatened suicide.
James sort of had this pained/somewhat sympathetic expression on his face, but you're right - no one really reacted to it, or more importantly bothered to argue against it, and Penelope herself delivered it so cooly and matter-of-factly, as though naturally, she SHOULD kill herself.... and the "I promise, i promise i will" - that was what really stunned me. That she had been made to think herself such a burden upon others because of her quite cute and unique nose.
But i wonder, as i do with several moments of dialogue in this movie... are we meant to question the sentiments involved? Or do the writers expect that such suicidal thoughts should just be accepted in Penelope's case? I certainly hope not!!! *but you never know what their intent was*
I thought JM played it very well. The entire scene I felt like he was just bursting to let it all out and tell her the truth but fear of her rejecting him and hurting her further nearly killed him inside. And think of it this way, let's say he took her at her word, that she really would kill herself if the curse wasn't lifted. If he cared for her as much as we know he does, the thought that she'd follow through with that if he couldn't give her what she wanted would be just as heartbreaking if not more so than letting her go to try and find someone else who could do it.
shareI agree with Lily. See, the first time or two I saw this, I thought "Well, Johnny's feelings for her sure did come out of nowhere". But the more I watch it (and that would be a lot, haha...), the more I pay attention to Johnny's clues to how much he truly cares for her in his words, body language, and facial expressions (all of which James McAvoy does a fantastic job with). And I have to say, I see exactly what Lily sees. When she said she'd kill herself, I see in his face both a very deep sadness and the look of one who is torn on an important decision. I see that he wants to accept her very badly, but I also see the resolve to refuse her strengthen because he's afraid she really /will/ kill herself.
But I did not see a reaction from the mother or the matchmaker, and that was saddening, yes.
The first time I saw the movie I was disappointed that Johnny asked Penelope what if the spell wasn't broken...and I was surprised to hear Penelope's response.
But once I knew that Johnny wasn't a blue blood, it made sense why he asked her about the spell not being broken - because he knew he could not break it. And her drastic response was what made him walk away and leave her to find the blue blood she needed.
I do think I would have liked to have seen Johnny in some of the scenes that followed, maybe replaying what Penelope said over in his head, to show that it affected him.
What are you talking about?! There WAS a scene like that. The next time we see Johnny, he is sitting on a chair in his living room. His head is thrown back and he is staring at the clouds through a skylight. He looks like he's been in that position for a long time. He gets up and walks over to the piano where he plays for a few seconds, slams shut the piano, then grabs money out of the cigar box and goes off to gamble.
shareYeah, I agree, but I am also surprised that if a guy is taking her suicidal thoughts seriously, he STILL DOESN'T think that being dumped by the one man she had been coming to love, and without the truthful explanation, might also lead her to kill herself. Seriously, a suicidal person who hates themselves coming off a hard rejection, is that not a precedent for a possibly tragic outcome? Luckily, she was stronger than the woman opening who threw herself off a cliff, but still, he didn't know that. If someone I cared about said something like that, I would make my priority letting them know that their nose was not the problem, that my background was. I wouldn't want to risk sending them further spiralling into a deeper depression. It was still pretty insensitive of him to take off without giving her all the facts.
shareI disagree. I thought Max/Johnny's reaction to the news was pretty spot on for what he knew of her. After all the time they spent talking together and getting to know each other I think he knew she was desperate for change but he didn't quite believe she'd do that. And I don't think she meant it that way either. I think it was more frustration than anything. She couldn't take much more of this but of all the way to stop it I don't think suicide was really an option in her mind unless some kind of escape failed and then it was more of a subconscious plan b. Of course since we don't get insight into characters minds in movies unless we get some kind of voice over or something, we'll never really know.
As to not seeing reactions from mom and wanda, we only see what the director wants us to see but the scene was more about Penelope and Johnny than mom and wanda. Those two were a background to the real action going on. And the look on Johnny's face when she tells him to get out? I think in that moment everything is finally hitting him. He wants so badly to say yes but knowing he doesn't have the power and would therefore be condemning her to continue as she has pretty much kills him.
I think she wanted to try getting married (still thinking he was a blue blood) and if that didnt work she would kill herself to free him of her so he can find someone else. But she didn't realize he actually loved her. So even though he wanted to be with her, he knew he couldn't break the curse, and he didn't want to make her kill herself.
What do I do now that I'm finished Breaking Dawn??
READ THEM AGAIN!
To me, that line did so not fit in this movie. I mean, it's not really a movie made for adults I guess, and I don't think that it's that appropriate for a kids' movie (nor is all the swearing of course) but I don't think I'd be happy showing this film to a 6 year old (in the Netherlands it's rated '6 years').
I don't mind some adult jokes in a kids' movie, but usually they are hidden a bit better so you don't have to explain it all to the kids you're watching the movie with.
I think Penelope meant it in a way. As in, she just wanted it all to end, preferably with her being able to have a normal nose and a normal life, she's sick of being hidden away and offered for marriage and then rejected all the time. I think it just showed how desperate she was for "Max" to marry her because she saw him as her escape.
From Penelope's POV, "Max" would only ask what if the curse won't break because he is worried he'll be stuck with a pig-nosed wife, and doesn't want to agree to marry and change her. She doesn't want her chance at normalcy to disappear, so she tries this last-ditch attempt to assuage his fears.
From "Max"'s POV, he cares about Penelope and wants her to be happy, and based on her comment he believes that the only thing that would make her happy is lifting the curse. He believes she doesn't want *him*, she wants someone who will lift the curse, and since he knows he can't, he leaves.
If she'd answered any other way "Max" might have taken his chances and married her. And it also makes clear to the viewers that at that point in the movie, Penelope's main aim is escape, not love. It changes later.
I thought it was a very powerful scene. That one line showed all her desperation and fear and longing.
"The unicorn lived in a lilac wood, and she lived all alone..." ~ The Last Unicorn
The line did shock me, but I think that in that situation it fit.
It was the way she promised she would. And she said it as if she was offering him something good, like she was giving him a gift. Like he wouldn't have her death on his conscience because she wasn't worth grieving for if she had a pig nose.
Wow, it broke my heart. And I think you can see in the scene that Max's face falls as he hears what she says. Her complete acceptance that she would die to not be a burden to someone because she was so repulsive. Oh god, that girl just needs a big hug.
I thought it was a very powerful scene. That one line showed all her desperation and fear and longing.
I always figured she meant that she would kill herself to save Max/Johnny from having to spend the rest of his life married to a pig girl. And that was the reason that he rejected her. He wanted her to find someone that could break the curse for her. So I think he was pretty horrified by what she said.
It's not a lie, if you believe it" George Costanza
This is the only part of the movie I really didn't like. I also did not like that her mother and Johnny did not say anything like "Please, don't say that." or "No, I would not allow you to do that." or something to that effect. They just stood there.
shareYou have to remember that Jessica and Wanda may have heard that before. Penelope may have made references in the past and so they didn't react. Or, they may have been waiting to see Max/Johnny's reaction. And his not being able to break the curse KILLS him; you see it in his face.
I love the end how he tells her that he can't break the curse yet still kisses her. He was telling her he wanted her just as she was, pig nose and all.
Our fingerprints don't fade from the lives we touch--Remember Me