GODDAMN you hollywood!


everytime something bad happens
hollywood turns it into some carnival attraction
They really need to stop with that it's driving me crazy

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[deleted]

About hollywood DaH!

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[deleted]

i am not particularly talking about this movie (btw sorry for my bad english)
i am just saying look at Columbia high they made movies about that
they are just milking everyting out

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[deleted]

Sallydammit, I can understand the "anger" towards a person who questions the relevance of this or other documentaries, but your response is completely improper. I'm not here to tell you what to do or what to say, but I hope you don't mind that I have. Even people with "foolish opinions", if you will, must be given the right to express themselves. I think you could have made a better point without disrespecting the person you were responding to. The middle portion of your post easily defeated that person's opinion about the issue.

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Yah get a clue pal, you mental midget.

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Yah pal! What a midget!

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This Sibel girl is funny, I have to accept that she doesn't make much sense. For those of you who want to read something that makes sense about this film's subject, here it is...
http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/background.htm

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Do you really want us Armenians to come to this board and rip open "tallarmeniantale"? It's a website of distorted information and fabrications. Visit the "Ararat" board, where that website -- tallarmeniantale -- has been proven to contain everything but factual information.

You're pushing Turkish lies on people, but I must tell you one thing -- the majority of human beings don't have the mental incapacity that you have, so don't expect them to buy into your lies.

Sell snake oil somewhere else.

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I took this from someone else's post but I think it really exemplifies how desperate Turks have become to prove their poorly devised thesis for the events of 1915. Enjoy the read!

As a general rule, whenever Turkish denialists attempt to support their claims agains the Armenian Genocide, they rely on bogus Turkish websites. Of those, they most heavily rely on www.tallarmeniantale.com, which has been debunked before on this board. Still, let's expose it one more time.

This particular site is a Turkish website well known for its lies, run by a Turk who nicknames himself "Holdwater," lives in the US, was raised by a father who hates Greeks (and most likely Armenians too), and he himself hates Armenians and Greeks. The site is filled with hateful attacks and forgeries against both these groups. Many of the forgeries are quotes supposedly attributed to Armenians. Every single one has been proven as a fabrication--either the supposed "books" don't exist, or they don't contain the quotations at all. Here is one famous Turkish fabrication found on this site and copied by virtually every bogus Turkish site out there (a simple google-search of the quote will demonstrate this). The fabricated quote has supposedly been written by an Armenian. The words in bold are the fabricated parts:

[The fabricated Turkish version] "Wholly opportunistic the Armenians have been variously pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish, as well as anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Communist, and anti-Soviet - whichever was expedient." John Roy Carlson (Arthur Derounian), "Cairo to Damascus" Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1951, p. 438

Now, here is the actual quote, found in the actual book.

[Real quote] "Wholly opportunistic, Dashnag politics have been variously pro-Nazi, pro-Russia, pro-Soviet Armenia, pro-Arab, pro-Jewish, as well as anti-Jewish, antiZionist, anti-Communist, and anti-Soviet--whichever was expedient."

Now, the author (Derounian) is a known anti-Dashnag (an Armenian political party), and has been known to work on behalf of the FBI to accuse US government officials left and right in Nazi affiliation. So, clearly he is expressing his bias against the *politics* (and not the entity itself) of a particular political party here. That's not the point however. The point is that Turks have forged the quote, deleting a the phrase "Dashnag politics" and substituting with "Armenians."

Of course that's not the only forgery on that website--many of the quotes contained there supposedly come from books that actually never existed. Which obviously renders the credibility of the website worthless.

Here is another Turkish forgery found not only in that website but virtiually in every Turkish publication on the Genocide (starting with the Turkish Foreign Ministry itself). Turkish sources like to quote from a report supposedly written by a Russian general named Mayewski. The quotes supposedly talk about how Armenians killed Turks. It turns out that the so called "quotes" actually come from a fabricated Ottoman Turkish translation of the original Russian report, translated by an Ottoman Turkish intelligence official. After comparing the Turkish translation with the Russian original, scholars (e.g. German Ottomanist Prof. Martin Hartmann) have found entire fabricated statements that never appeared in the Russian source. More information on the forgery can be found here: http://www.zoryaninstitute.org/Table_Of_Contents/dialogue_mayewski.html

Clearly, the abundance of these forgeries used by Turkish websites and sources strips them of any possible crediblity. It also reflects their desperation to use lies in their losing battle to deny the Armenian Genocide.


And here's just some of the errors I have easily spotted from his website:

"Only 1,500 Turks remain in Van"

Doesn't exist in the Goshnak. Furthermore, the Goshnak has not even published an issue at the date it is mentioned.

"All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation"

I have pasted the pages from which this quote was said to have come from, it was not on the mentioned page nor found in any of the two volumes of the work.

"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul."

This is said to come from a work published in 1920, the book exists not only doesn't exist but the author never wrote such things. I don't even need to elaborate on much more ridiculous it is when reading the context of the word "Soviet" as a proper noun in 1920 (the proper term at that time was soviets or communes as they were known, for example worker soviets.

Here are some real quotes:

"All the Armenians were forced to strip before being killed, gaping bayonet wounds on most of the bodies....nearly all of the women lay flat on their backs and showed signs of barbarous mutilation by bayonets of the gendarmes, these wounds having been inflicted in many cases probably after the women were dead."

-United States Consul Leslie Davis in his "Report of Leslie A. Davis, American Consul in Harput, Turkey on the work of the American Counsulate at Harput Since the Beginning of the War."

The killing was done with "axes, cleavers, shovels, and pitchforks....dashed infants on the rockers laid before the eyes of their mothers."

-Krikoris Balakian, Armenian Golgotha, pg. 177

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

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This information really shakes the very foundations of Turkish thesis as a whole.. Are you kidding me?? 3 lame quotations. You can find more than that in Armenian thesis.

What is Dashnak? Don't say just a political party if you know even a little bit about this issue. It is Armenian Revolutionary Federation. Do you know when it was founded and what does the 'map of Armenia' they have looks like? Do you know that half the eastern Turkey is depicted as part of Armenia? Do you know anything about their role in the revolt which lead to deportations?

They even openly announce their goal as that their real expectation from Turkish government is that they 'return the occupied lands' to Armenia. Find their publications (not quotations from here and there) and read for yourself. Do you really think that this whole propaganda is for clarifying some historical events? Wouldn't you be disappointed that it is for land and money and nothing else?

Also did you know that Armenian, British, US archives, The Blue Book, Ottoman Archives, Andonian's forged letters. None of them were considered evidence against those Ottoman officials in a court of law. In Germany Talaat was found not guilty. In Malta again these were considered no evidence. These documents are available at the library of University of Michigan. It calls it Malta pending-trial. Yet most Armenian sources come up with different stories some say 'there's was not trial so it doesn't count', some say they were released after almost 3 years of investigation not because of lack of evidence but other reasons. All fall short in answering why in those 3 years no decision was made about their alleged crime. No new documents came up after that. So why would things that didn't make a case then, would make a case now? On Armenian websites you can see stuff like these people were found guilty by ARF. If you don't know what ARF is it sounds like it is some international body (a war crimes tribunal etc.) but now you know it. Some Armenian nationalist party found them guilty. I call that a desparate attempt.

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"Do you know that half the eastern Turkey is depicted as part of Armenia?"

Because in 1918, Armenia's territories extended to as far as Van and the Black Sea. The fact that cowardly Turkey attacked Armenia in 1918 and conquered its territories is why the Treaty of Sevres is the treaty Armenia recognizes, not any others proceeding after it.

"Also did you know that Armenian, British, US archives, The Blue Book, Ottoman Archives, Andonian's forged letters."

No, that's just a Turkish lies. All of those files are documented proof and are found in other countries' archives: Germany and Austro-Hungary, Turkey's allies during the war, Italy, France, Sweden, and the Netherlands; you cannot honestly claim that all those documents are doctored and fake. That's plain Turkish stupidity. And no, the Andonian telegrams were confirmed to be authentic in 1920 and in the 1984 United Nation's Permanent People's Tribunal. All documents testify that THERE WAS NO REVOLUTION in the Ottoman Empire.

Please don't be so stupid and think that there was a world wide conspiracy to lie and make Turkey look bad during that era.

"In Germany Talaat was found not guilty."

Germany never tried Talaat since they welcome him in arms before war's end. They did try his assassin, who was found NOT guilty.

"In Malta again these were considered no evidence."

Another Turkish lie. There was no "Malta Tribunal" and all prisoners on the island were traded in after nationalist Turks took over 60 British hostages in Turkey. Not to mention that there was no law to try them in the international sense, for genocide in the 1920s. Which is why Raphael Lemkin, the man who came up with the term, used the example of the Armenians when coming up with the word in 1944.

"On Armenian websites you can see stuff like these people were found guilty by ARF."

Wrong again, no one says the ARF convicted these men. In fact the Ottoman Turkish Tribunal from 1919-1922 tried and sentenced to death many of the perpetrators of the Genocide including CUP leaders who had been sentenced to death in absentia (Talaat, Enver, etc.) who had cowardly escaped to Germany and elsewhere before the war's end.

Whose desperate now? any more dumb, fabricated lies for me to debunk? If the evidence is so great against the Genocide thesis, then there wouldn't be so many major European, Latin American, and North American countries recognizing it.

Get lost you ignoramus, its clear you're just repeating the Turkish bullsh!t of imaginary revolutions and civil wars. There's a reason why no one else is going to be believing your line of events 20 years from now.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I don't think IMDb is biased, I just think it knows when a film is such utter crap that it doesn't even deserve to be in the database. I suppose Karate Cop was a cut above that Turkish denialist film. Sorry.

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[deleted]

Your pointless statements can only be justified by apparent bias but still fail to even convey your ideas.
"The fact that cowardly Turkey attacked Armenia in 1918 and conquered its territories." Cowardly and conquered Armenian territories. I'm amazed how articulate you are.

Treaty of Sevres : Check boundaries of Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia, Greece.. see how their boundaries changed after The Treaty of Sevres. All these countries lost land to one another or separated. It would be stupid of them to claim ownership on a plot of land based on Sevres. So get over it. "Sevres is the treaty Armenia recognizes, not any others proceeding after it" Similarly Armenia should also stop daydreaming.

"Please don't be so stupid and think that there was a world wide conspiracy to lie and make Turkey look bad during that era."

Read about Lawrence of the Arabia.

Lieutenant-Colonel Thomas Edward Lawrence, CB, DSO, Legion of Honour (August 16, 1888 – May 19, 1935), professionally known as T.E. Lawrence and, later, T.E. Shaw, but most famously known as Lawrence of Arabia, gained international renown for his role as a British liaison officer during the Arab Revolt of 1916 to 1918. During the war, he fought with Arab irregular troops under the command of Emir Faisal, a son of Sherif Hussein of Mecca, in extended guerrilla operations against the armed forces of the Ottoman Empire.

He's successful, that's how we know about him. If you know anything about Armenian history you'd admit that Armenian bandits were supported by Russia and France.

All the armenian ultra-nationalists claim that there was no Malta Tribunal even though they can find documents on it in libraries. The documents on what you claim not to exist are available at The Center for Armenian Research and Publication in University of Michigan and is called Malta Pending Trial. And these guys were interned for almost 3 years. Your statement about 'no laws to try them at the time' is again incorrect. The investigation documents are about war crimes and Hague Conventions of 1907 is the ground for that. Even what currently is in effect 'Geneva Conventions' is considered an extension to Hague conventions.

"Wrong again, no one says the ARF convicted these men." Google it. That's even on Wikipedia. You need to read more about those tribunals. Even your sources such as Dandrian mention other reasons for the convictions. Lewis Heck (US official) also mentions even the personal feud between the Sultan and Young Turk government. If you know about how they came to power (military coup by overthrowing the Sultan) it makes more sense. Some people were convicted because of Armenian losses and executed (if so many people are dead apparently somebody failed to do their job properly which was safely relocating Armenians). But that doesn't mean that there's a genocide. Also you need to investigate about how courts worked in Ottoman Empire back then. Defense almost has no say, and if judge wants has a verdict in mind there's no need for proper evidence. But don't listen to me, read about it yourself. The more you read the more you understand. Just stop copy pasting phrases from my text to google and copying 1-2 sentences from Armenian Genocide websites as answers.

"Germany and Austro-Hungary, Turkey's allies during the war, Italy, France, Sweden, and the Netherlands; you cannot honestly claim that all those documents are doctored and fake. That's plain Turkish stupidity." Stop being funny. What documents and who says what? Just because they recognized it doesn't mean the documents are fake.. Nobody claims Turkish documents are forged. Andonian's documents are forgery and Blue Book is published as a propaganda material (also see Black Book, British propaganda against Germany) and that's why Malta trial is still pending. Read more..You'll find out.

I guess I answered all you have to say. I hope I'm not missing anything.

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There was indeed no Malta tribunal. The Turkish prisoners there were freed not due to lack of guilt, but due to pressure by Turkey's new president Kemal.

The archives of Turkey's war-time allies do indeed prove that the Genocide happened. And they are open to anyone who wants to research.

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